Projekt: Freedom Panda begins!

[cowlitzcoach]

You have some interesting ideas that I hope will work well for you.

Personally I would leave space for a co-pilot's seat. That is unless you are absolutely set into the single mode.

Along with the co-pilot's seat I would leave at least one window on the curb side behind the service door. You would be amazed at how much you get used to that little extra peripheral vision area. Yes you have mirrors that you need to use. But sometimes your eyes seeing directly is the best thing.

If you have room underneath the shower you may find it easier to create a step down into the shower than adding extra height to the ceiling.

Good luck and happy trails.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

You have some interesting ideas that I hope will work well for you.

Personally I would leave space for a co-pilot's seat. That is unless you are absolutely set into the single mode.

Along with the co-pilot's seat I would leave at least one window on the curb side behind the service door. You would be amazed at how much you get used to that little extra peripheral vision area. Yes you have mirrors that you need to use. But sometimes your eyes seeing directly is the best thing.

If you have room underneath the shower you may find it easier to create a step down into the shower than adding extra height to the ceiling.

Good luck and happy trails.

I second the suggestion of a step down shower. I've got a spot on the floor I've been eyeing for just such purpose.

[FreedomPanda]

Cowlitz, good idea on the step down. I'll look into what's underneath that specific area. The shower would be located on the drivers side wall between the engine compartment and the wheel well.

The copilot's seat would be tough...I'm honestly not going to be driving it as much as it's sitting, although I do like the idea...I'll see if there's something I can do with the design to include a copilot seat. When it's not being used, I'll have it double as my coat closet. *ideas!*





Speaking of amending...the bathtub idea may get shelved, although I'm going to fight it. I'll probably lose to the Gillig's original designers. I've been tearing up the floor and this is what I've found:





The floor is divided into three sections by two steel beams. They run the length of the bus, and snugged in between them in the middle was the center aisle. They were also used to anchor the seats to the floor. This means the floor is cut up into thirds, and pieced together front to back, screwed in with a pretty logical pattern.

So the tub, if it happens, would have to be VERY narrow, for starters. The original spot I had thought of putting it won't work, unless I remove the gas tank. Since that won't happen purposefully (hey...this is my first project like this, and anything can happen with power tools gone wild), I'll be shelving that idea for the moment.

The rubber comes up ok, but not without sweat-inducing effort. I've found the plywood condition underneath to be exceptional for a 41 year old bus. I'd say it's in 15 year old condition so far. Seeing as how it was California built & run, with only 117K on her, I'm excited. I want to see what the metal underneath the plywood looks like, and I'm ready to buff & seal when the time comes. Downside (if there is one?) is that I'll have to measure new plywood flooring & do some saw work to re-lay the new floor.

Heading out to Lowe's now to pick up some knee pads (oh wow I'm sore) and get back to it the rest of today.

[cowlitzcoach]

IIRC, on rear engine Gillig buses there is an area behind the driver's side rear wheel and the engine compartment that is empty space.

On the curb side the area is the battery compartment.

[cowlitzcoach]

Make sure as you make updates to the floor that you keep all of the existing access holes accessible.

There are some things that you can not reach if you can't access those areas from inside the bus.

Your bus should have access panels above the fuel tank, above the transmission, and the front of the back shelf to access the back of the engine.

[bansil]

Your head is bald like mine...get a cheap welders cap, saves on scars from sparks and keeps head warm

I will be doing a sunken tub next,

[Hank's P-O-S]

Originally Posted by bansil

Your head is bald like mine...get a cheap welders cap, saves on scars from sparks and keeps head warm

I will be doing a sunken tub next,

I'm not so sure welding with hair is too good either you get little round "holes" in your hair!!!

[FreedomPanda]

Cowlitz, you are correct...but I think it goes deeper than that...literally!

I was able to locate all the screws in the first floor panel without removing ALL the floor rubber, and removed it. Underneath, the gas tank...and from what I can see, NO metal flooring underneath at all. I'm pretty sure it will look like this the entire length, but I'll find that out tomorrow. To the right of the gas tank is the main storage compartment, accessed and running uninterrupted from both driver & curb side. I actually stood inside with my feet resting on the storage floor.

If it's true that this bus has no metal floor, then A) I won't be buffing a lot of metal sub floor & B) I'll be able to lay 1/4 (?) plywood underneath on ledges that are already there, then insulation, THEN the 3/4 flooring on top of that without losing any height at all. The way this bus is layed out is interesting, with it's two steel runners from fore to aft. Has anyone else encountered this?







Also, stopped by Lowe's & picked up some knee pads. A world of difference. An entire planet. Awesome.
Also picked up a bucket & one of those "bucket tool holders" for $12. It's perfect, since most everything I need fits in there, I just shove it around where I need it, and I'm not opening and closing my toolbox all the time. Extension cords, crowbar, masks & goggles etc. just fit inside, and I take it when I leave.





And because any day above ground is better than the alternative, here's what I got to see earlier today:

[FreedomPanda]

Hey Bansil, I have been wearing a beanie most of the time, but so far I haven't been grinding anything metal. I'll be sure to wear something when the sparks fly though. Thanks for the (bald) heads up! ;)

I'm trying to get as much stuff done as possible before the heat here. It gets up to 120, and it's no fun to work in. Thankfully, it's dry California heat, so no humidity. From the looks of the time frames, I should have a lot finished in 7-8 months, and be ready to move into it, with just a few cosmetic things to address.

Next up, I'm going to need to put a lock on the doors. There's a drop down doorstop style lock I can use for the front doors, but the side emergency door opens from the outside. Found a half drunk bottle of orange juice in the trash bucket inside today, and ants starting a little march to get their drink on. Not sure who was inside, but with tools being left inside more often as the process continues, as well as unstable flooring and sharp edges on the ceiling & walls, I think it best to lock it up so no one gets hurt. No one should be inside, but 'should' & reality aren't the same thing. I saw someone in here do a very clean lock installation on their rig, I think I'll search for that thread again. Has anyone had experience with lock installs?

[cowlitzcoach]

The service door should have a hole on each door leaf that line up with holes through the first step. The engine door key fits through a piece of flat stock that has a rod welded on the other end. Insert both the rod and the engine door key through the floor and the curved end of the engine door key should line up with a hole on the lip of the entry step. Insert a long shank pad lock through the engine door key and lip of the entry step and your door will be securely locked.

For the side emergeny door, insert a rod with a notch in it over the inside door handle and wedge the top into the top of the door frame. No way can anyone open the side door with the door latch wedged that way.

For the rear, you can pin one of the handles with a 'D' ring or a bolt which will not allow the handle to turn from the outside.

I noticed a jug of Delo 400 oil in the luggage compartment. Good choice of oil if it is 15W-40 and NOT the LE version that is normally found at Costco, Wal-Mart, and most auto parts stores. The LE (low emission) version of Delo 400 is NOT reverse compatible for pre-emission (2007) engines. It does not have ZDDP or some such. It is mostly zinc and phosphorus. Without the zinc or phosphorus in the oil you are going to have metal on metal at start up on all of your flat tappet areas. You can flat spot a cam and take out the bottom of a lifter without the ZDDP. The LE version took the ZDDP out because the ZDDP kills the catylitic convertors much in the same way leaded fuels destroyed the catylitic convertors on '70's and '80's gas powered vehicles.

[cowlitzcoach]

Crown Supercoaches had very similar floor construction.

Why they were built without a metal floor I have no idea other than weight or cost savings. Highway coaches had wood floors without metal so it may have been a holdover from that.

On the other hand, most eastern built buses only had metal floors for years. At the time of retirement the floors looked like roller coasters as you looked down the aisle where the metal had sagged between the cross frames. While wood floors over metal are the standard spe'c in many states it is still on option in many of the eastern states. In states that have few temperature extremes and short life cycles the addition of wood in the floors isn't really a necessary option.

There is no reason not to think you could make a sandwich to add insulation in your floor.

[FreedomPanda]

Thank you for that info Cowlitz. I'll check on the specific type of oil tomorrow, I do know they're pretty full from picking them up when I bought the bus.

There's actually a two piece metal door stop/lock for the front door. The doors are pretty loose, if you wanted to you could get in that way. I was thinking about installing a keyed lock on the outside of the side emergency exit that's flush with the skin on the outside, turn bolt inside. I have to get one at some point, may as well be now. The last thing I want is getting things close to finished and some vandals just walk in. Where the bus is now, it's not highly likely but not impossible either.

I'm intrigued & encouraged with the floor. Options to sink the shower may be easier, also insulation may be more effective. Speaking of insulation, I was thinking of this: Owens Corning R30 Insulation Foil Faced Batts 24 in. x 48 in. (8-Bags). Anyone have experience with it? R30 is pretty decent, and foil faced seems logical. 9 1/2" thick, would fit in every place I'd need it.

Also noticed that the inside wall panels are somehow attached firmly to the lower part of the walls. The lower part curves underneath the floorboards....and is welded solid to the rest of the frame. My thought is that I'll have to cut through the lower part of the wall where it meets the floor. (Good view of it in the first photo above, with my thumb up...) Otherwise, the new wall will bow out and I'd have to cut the upper side panels off anyway. Hmmmm....

[The Nebuchadnezzar]

Hey Panda,

Noticed the knee pads, picked up one of these at Harbor Freight, really made side panel removal better
http://www.harborfreight.com/pneumatic- ... 46319.html

[FreedomPanda]

That's a brilliant idea . Thank you!

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by bansil

Your head is bald like mine...get a cheap welders cap, saves on scars from sparks and keeps head warm

I will be doing a sunken tub next,

I believe the term is Folicaly challenged

[FreedomPanda]

Making my way towards the back of the Gillig today, sure enough: it has nothing between the highway and the plywood except a little height and some thinly & poorly sprayed on silver spray paint, sprayed on AFTER the boards were laid down...and it's not sprayed on every board. Crazy. Wasn't expecting this, but it *may* turn into a blessing in disguise, albeit more work. (Translated: more fun! Bring it on, Gilligan!)

[juliol]

Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach

I noticed a jug of Delo 400 oil in the luggage compartment. Good choice of oil if it is 15W-40 and NOT the LE version that is normally found at Costco, Wal-Mart, and most auto parts stores. The LE (low emission) version of Delo 400 is NOT reverse compatible for pre-emission (2007) engines. It does not have ZDDP or some such. It is mostly zinc and phosphorus. Without the zinc or phosphorus in the oil you are going to have metal on metal at start up on all of your flat tappet areas. You can flat spot a cam and take out the bottom of a lifter without the ZDDP. The LE version took the ZDDP out because the ZDDP kills the catylitic convertors much in the same way leaded fuels destroyed the catylitic convertors on '70's and '80's gas powered vehicles.

I got the Costco Delo 400 and change the oil on my 3208 cat, after reading your comment I will replace asap.

J

[FreedomPanda]

Next step is removing the ceiling panels. Looked around last night on the site, didn't find anything on the topic, wondering if anyone has any tips. The panels are really tight together, with screws in the very back area by the emergency exit, and some in the front. Middle ceiling panel in drivers area is removed, no insulation (no insulation anywhere in the entire bus, actually).

[FreedomPanda]

Would anyone have any tips on the best way to remove the ceiling panels?

I'm working on it, but man, it's ON there tight. They didn't just slap these old Gilligs together. They tanked them up well.

I appear to be stuck. I'll be cutting the bottom of the wall panels off, starting to think I should just start cutting the ceiling all to heck as well, but would like to not make anything harder than it is...

[EastCoastCB]

Sorry- mine are riveted all to hell.
Have you tried an air hammer/chisel to pry the ceiling panels apart? I think it would help your cause.