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Old 01-29-2017, 08:38 PM   #11
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Engine: 5.9L Cummins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turf View Post
have you tried to start it?

sounds like you got a good plan. one comment about your filter change. if the fuel in the tank is old, i'd wait to burn that before i changed fuel filters. a new filter will clog fast with crap fuel.
I had to change the fuel separator as it was leaking. I looked at fuel and eng- mount filter- both clean, so I agree- I will see what I got before changing the other filters. I hate starting a project, then needing a consumable and not having it.

I did score an entire case of 12 fleetguard oil filters on Amazon for $30/delivered Prime.

So, no start, but didn't try much as no fuel is getting to engine. Looks like someone replaced the lift pump already as isn't tan, but I could be wrong. Will have to fool with it in the light tomorrow. Looks like a crap design, coming from 6CTA lift pumps. I se there is a "updated" carter pump for these, but pumps like to push fluid, not suck. I may put an inline/intank booster and a dash-mounted gauge.



I've read-up on the issues these pumps have and would like to fix before it eats my injection pump, if not too late.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:53 PM   #12
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Fuel saga...

So, spent a night reading, am now expert in Cummins 5.9L gen 2 24v Bosch VP44 fuel delivery system.

First, none of the crap you need to get to on this motor is accessible without removing untreated parts. Lift pump removal?- remove starter. Injection pump service?- remove air compressor. There is more room in a Honda Fit engine bay. You would think that with the 'smaller' 5.9L that there would be an inch or 2 to get your hands in there, nope. 40' of vehicle, lets put the air governor on TOP of the compressor.

Air inside lines of diesel= bad, no go. 5.9L is prone to having the o-rings in the filter bowl dry out- for the big filter lid, WIF (water in filter sensor), heater and flip-drain. Some VP44 have a JIC-4 Schrader valve type connection (same as A/C charging hose) for air bleeding and ez fuel pressure gauge hookup, but on ole' Succubus, no room for that feature because of proximity of engine mounted air compressor for air brakes.

Bluebird busses with center frame mount tanks (mine, 60 gal) are notorious for having fuel supply problems, and if the VP-44 is starved, it will suck the fuel until it burns itself out- $$$$. Dodge Ram guys put inline electric pumps to boost supply pressure and bypass crappy carter stock pump. The other essential mod is a fuel pressure gauge/idiot light combo. Mine does show a sensor coming out of banjo fitting on filter canister, but until it's running, won't know status of that. Fuel pressure varies with conditions- load/temp/hills/inertia... Carter fuel pump is whiny, inconsistent sounding...i hope (pray) is culprit in my case.

VP44 is a mechanical pump, controlled electronically by EDC (electronic control unit) on the top of pump. Similar Bosch pumps ubiquitous in Europe, so they are clear experts. When Bosch switched to dreaded Pb-free solder, same problems arose as in aircraft- bad solder joints. There is a $2 transistor (drive transistor) in that computer that gets toasted that prevents the pump from communicating. In a Ram pickup, the repair can be done in situ, without removing pump. EDC is like an electronic distributor, taking info from crank sensor to determine which cylinder gets a squirt of fuel and when. Pump removal required, of course for Bluebird. Majority of bad VP44 injection pumps are due to this electronic failure. Supposebly, Bosch fixed this issue...eventually.Cannot swap EDC as they are programmed for specific application/engine.



Courtesy of WoodButcher. EDC is under cover below big IPVR... sticker


EDC removal


EDC Repair process
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:12 PM   #13
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Plan of attack is to put some dye in 5 gallons of fuel, add to tank, and pressurize to a few-3 to 5 lbs psi to see where she squirts. I have drips from previously leaking frame-mount water separator, so need to distinguish old drips from new. They also have tap off of fuel sep. for genny, to complicate issues and introduce dreaded air. I take brass fuel cap, drill hole and put in Schrader valve to pressurize. More is less, here- do not go crazy with 80psi...



I should just put FASS or Raptor or Holley Blue inline pump while I have air in lines and need purge , but I need to hear it rumble before it gets any more cash from me.

In Dodge Rams, they remove black flex line from lift pump to Inj pump and temporarily put 5 feet of clear 5/8 tubing in 2 loops on windshield so you can see if air in lines as you drive. I have braided steel connection i won't cut for insertion of tubing... Even just a tiny pinhole in gas tank pickup tube or a bad check valve can introduce air into system.


FYi- I am not posting this info to bleat or brag, just to have diary of trials and tribulations. I'm sure I will re-read this when same problems repeat themselves. Possibly, I may help another skoolie.
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Old 01-30-2017, 08:25 PM   #14
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Great info

These guys explain Bosch Vp44 troubleshooting very well, but are pricey for work. Their process help you eliminate all the other (less expensive/intrusive) sensors before spending big $$

vp44_diagnostics

lift_pump_diagnostics

Some guys telling me 5.9 is underpowered for 32 K lbs, I know, I have three 8.3L cummins vehicles. If it's a complete dog, I'll' shoehorn a 6CTA in there.

:See my sig
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Old 01-30-2017, 10:30 PM   #15
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I'd say that the 5.9 would be marginal for that weight, being that the chassis, suspension and brakes are arguably more important. Being a bookmobile I'd imagine you've got a pretty steep gear in the rear end and that this never saw the highway.
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:43 AM   #16
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Rear ratio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewzer55 View Post
I'd say that the 5.9 would be marginal for that weight, being that the chassis, suspension and brakes are arguably more important. Being a bookmobile I'd imagine you've got a pretty steep gear in the rear end and that this never saw the highway.
I do have the fact that it isn't going to be carrying the 3000 books or 20 oak bookcases it was spec'd to. No roofdeck build, no trailer, no boondocking in sight- this will be a pavement Queen. No blackwater tank for incinerator toilet. Just a leisure cruiser/party bus. Not a hauler or tiny home on wheels. Few couches, flat screen, cooktop and microwave/convection combo.

As it sits, with 5.29, 39" tall tires and 1:1 Transmission Ratio, poor little 5.9L would be spinning 2700 RPM to cruise 60 mph.

Get 6th gear unlocked @.75 , gives me 2051 rpm@60 mph. Still tiny bit high for mpg, but doable.

or swap the rear/carrier for rebuilt for $1500. 4.38 rear gets me 1980 rpm@70 mph with unicorn .75 final drive...not bad. 1:1 final gets me 2260 rpm...bit loud.

So ideally, I need to unlock top gear and swap diff --or 2-speed transaxle would be sweet, but is heavy work.

MD3060 trans is pretty tough- spec'd for 90,000 lbs. Getting 6th unlocked shouldn't be too hard- this was never a schoolbus and pax capacity plate says '00.

I knew it was slow when I bought it, many tire-kickers walked away because they were afraid to swap carrier. I figured was easier and cheaper than roof raise, 2" spray foam, window delete. ... and it has 26,500 leisurely librarian miles on it, no stop n go, like schoolbus.

Calculator axle/tire/rpm

Time will tell... But first, fuel delivery !
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Old 01-31-2017, 08:53 AM   #17
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I say go for it...unlock 6th and get the right R&P set. Diesels will run forever and give you good mpg's if you can keep them on or near their sweet spot. Like mine, yours is around 1800 rpm.
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Old 01-31-2017, 09:45 AM   #18
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Cummins 2...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
sweet spot... Like mine, yours is around 1800 rpm.
I agree- is important to cruise in the happy zone.

in 2005 Cummins Powermaster had to say to Dodge guys:


In the Dodge application, the rpm of the advertised or maximum rated power of the engine is 2500 rpm (prior to 1996 models), 2600 for 1996 and newer models with 12-valve manual transmission and 2700 rpm for 24-valve. Peak torque is reached at 1600 rpm on all models. The Maximum Full-Load Governed Speed is 2800 rpm for 12 valve and 3200 for the 24-valve. The Maximum No-Load Governed Speed is 2950-to-3300 rpm (3500 for 24-valve).

Therefore, your normal operating range for the engine is between 1600 (peak torque) and rated rpm (2500-to-2700, depending on your model). These engines should not exceed 2800 or 3200 rpm downhill (depending on model year), under load, since that is the governed speed of the engine. At no load (i.e., if you were to push the accelerator to the floor and hold it, sitting still in neutral), the no-load governed rpm is about 10 percent over the full-load governed rpm.

The engine is designed for maximum torque or twisting power at lower RPM (1600 rpm), for hard pulls on long grades. The torque curve of the engine is nearly flat from peak torque (1600 rpm) to rated power (2500-to-2700 rpm), however, torque does drop off slightly near the rated power rpm. Typically, the 'sweet spot' rpm for cruising would be about midway between peak torque and rated engine rpm, however, any rpm between peak torque (1600 rpm) and rated speed is fine and will not harm the engine. Overspeeding above rated speed and lugging the engine under load below peak torque is not recommended.

Also we mention that on downhill operation, the weight of the truck and any load you have on it, or towing, will cause the rpm to exceed governed rpm. Even though the engine is governed while under power, the load can push the engine beyond its rated speed. We would not recommend going too much over the no-load governed rpm or you could cause valve/piston contact, which can cause major engine damage.

Any rpm between peak torque (1600) and full-load governed rpm is acceptable and will not harm the engine. However, if you are concerned about fuel mileage and long engine life, then the lower rpm is recommended. At higher rpm's, the engine uses more fuel and all internal components turn faster and wear out quicker, which will shorten the life of your engine. There is less horsepower and torque at maximum rpm and the only reason to run the engine at maximum rpm would be for higher road speeds.

For the best fuel mileage, Cummins engines should be operated between peak torque and rated speed. Do not lug the engine when running in this RPM range. What is "lugging"? Lugging the engine is when, at cruising speed, the engine is accelerated and it will not increase the vehicle speed. Also, lugging is operating the engine, under full load, below peak torque rpm.
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Old 01-31-2017, 10:17 AM   #19
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Excellent info Rusty...thanks for posting. Unless you are building a sled pulling diesel and don't mind blowing it up at every event by pushing the RPM's...the guidelines above are what you need to build to...and run at. Folks new to diesels think they have to drive them like they do their cars...more RPMs = more power. NOT.
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Old 01-31-2017, 11:14 PM   #20
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I used a Raptor lift pump on a GM/DD 6.5L to good effect. Simple, adjustable, outlived the truck.

Also, there exists "sight glass" for rigging a clear section of fuel supply to check for air and whatnot. Better/safer then clear tubing from the box store. Inexpensive. Try mcmaster or similar.

Is fuel supply on this thing a dumb-loop (with unmetered supply and return diesel lines), or some kinda fancy "suck-the-exact-right-amount" fuel system?

I guess I lost track of what problem your solving here? Why not replace with fresh diesel, prime, check fuel pressure and then try to fire the beast up?
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