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Old 01-03-2014, 02:06 PM   #21
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

I put down 3/4" poly-iso insulation board with 3/4" tongue and groove flake board over it. Didn't want the insulation to get squashed down by us walking on it so I laid down some 7/8" pine runners to hold the flooring slightly above the insulation. I have a plywood floor in my bus so the runners and plywood flooring were screwed to the bus floor. I like screws better than nails because they hold way better and don't squeak when they work loose later on.

I put linoleum down as my finished floor so I didn't want the sub floor flexing and cracking the lino. Your hardwood flooring probably won't be quite as picky about sub floor rigidity but the extra stiffness 3/4" ply gives might be worth the extra cost.

If you'll be bolting seats or stoves to the floor put some 3/4" plywood in place of the insulation in those spots or your floor will squash down when you crank down on the bolts.

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Old 01-04-2014, 10:48 AM   #22
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

That rubber is no joke!
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:05 PM   #23
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711
I put down 3/4" poly-iso insulation board with 3/4" tongue and groove flake board over it. Didn't want the insulation to get squashed down by us walking on it so I laid down some 7/8" pine runners to hold the flooring slightly above the insulation. I have a plywood floor in my bus so the runners and plywood flooring were screwed to the bus floor. I like screws better than nails because they hold way better and don't squeak when they work loose later on.
What Roach called "3/4 flake" around here is OSB. Using OSB in a floor is a bad Ida. It swells 10 times faster than plywood if exposed to any moisture. Anything pressed without a water proof glue, should not be used in a skoolie build. No MDF, OSB, that pressed crap for showers, ect.

This method has a flaw that most don't think of. If your pine runners hold your 3/4 plywood above the Styrofoam even a crack, that space becomes a cold zone and defeats the point of the insulation. Also the pine runners transmit cold directly to the plywood that transmits into the room.

As long as you get the good high density pink or blue, don't get the cheap white Styrofoam, it is rated for floors and will not compress.

A more effective system would be to leave the floor free floating. Lay all your Styrofoam tightly together. Next lay 3/8th plywood directly over it, making sure the joints are not in the same place as the Styrofoam joints. After you have that layer of plywood down, lay one more layer of 3/8th plywood, making sure no crack lays in the same place as the under layer. Now screw or staple the two layers together, and you have a perfect thermal break.

If your concerned about the floor moving, it won't. Just to be sure, some members on here have used a block of wood around 4" square in the center of each sheet of plywood, with 4 screws into the bus floor, and 4 through the plywood into the block to prevent sliding.

Now if your installing 3/4" hardwood, you don't need a subfloor nearly that thick. One layer of 1/2", or two layers of 1/4" would be more than enough. If you glue your hardwood down rather than nail, you can use as little as 1/4" single layer plywood.

Now for my Opinion
I hate the thought of wood in a floor. All wood has mold spores in it from the day the tree was cut down. Every time you mop, track snow in, spill, have a leak from plumbing or the roof, ect it causes the floor to start going bad. The makers of laminate flooring need to go to jail for life for making a inferior product that is made to fail, and ends up in our landfills in great quantity's. In as little as 24 hours after moisture exposure, mold starts to grow on the surfaces of the wood. In short, wood should not be in a floor.

My bus will have 1/8" thick steel as the subfloor over the 6" of Styrofoam. Flooring will be vinyl plank glued directly to the steel. Radiant heat lines will be resting in heat transfer plates right under the steel. Steel will not mold, and even if the paint fails, rust don't effect my health. For me I'm building in a bus because of the steel. I make my living building with wood, and see everyday how inferior it is. Our entire residential home building industry is 100 years behind.

Metal is always dimensional. When I order lumber on my job sites, over half is crap that is almost imposable to use. 20% gets burned because it's so twisted, we can't even use it for 14" blocks in the walls.

Last I just want to point out that I like to do things in a way that I never have to redo them. Any of the ways shown by other members will work, They just may not last as long. Me being too picky is why my skoolie is still not finished.

Nat
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Old 01-04-2014, 12:43 PM   #24
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

Quote:
Originally Posted by nat_ster
This method has a flaw that most don't think of. If your pine runners hold your 3/4 plywood above the Styrofoam even a crack, that space becomes a cold zone and defeats the point of the insulation. Also the pine runners transmit cold directly to the plywood that transmits into the room.
That's true for the non foil faced boards, but any insulation with a foil face needs a small air gap for the radiant barrier to work properly.

There are others here who have laid plywood directly over foam sheets and have reported no problems with the foam being compressed, but I'm a belt & suspenders kind of guy and tend to over build; especially when I'd have to remove everything above floor level to replace an under-built floor. That would seriously suck. I used linoleum on my floor and any deflection would crack the lino in short order. I wanted that sub-floor rigid.

I do agree about the pine runners being a thermal break. That's why I kept them narrow.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:25 PM   #25
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

Quote:
Originally Posted by roach711
That's true for the non foil faced boards, but any insulation with a foil face needs a small air gap for the radiant barrier to work properly.
.
That foil face is realy there to help glue the Styrofoam to other surfaces without the glues melting the Styrofoam. The "radiant barrier" is a load of marketing crap. That little bit of tin foil has no real radiant value.

I have installed thousands and thousands of sheets of Styrofoam. When I started, no Styrofoam had a covering. Most common used to be the blue stuff that overlaps at the joints. I've used pink, white, coated with green layer, white, coated with foil layer, Yellow high density with a foil layer, ect. The only one that had enough aluminum to realy count as a radiant barrier was the Yellow high density. It was 3" thick.

Air gaps between layers of insulation render all layers to the outside useless. The air space will never be sealed from the outside. All it takes is a nail, or screw hole to make that air zone a cold zone

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Old 01-04-2014, 04:01 PM   #26
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

Here's how I did mine, and what Nat was describing. I have no complaints whatsoever, no squeaks and always feels solid. I also love the laminate, but wish I had put it in after I built the cupboards and walls. I basically wish I had made it so it was easily replaceable, because of the moisture issues also mentioned by Nat. And yes, I kept the fiberglass batting. Not the best by a long shot, but we are considering this a warm weather bus

http://www.skoolie.net/forum/viewtop...=5620&start=15
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Old 01-04-2014, 07:24 PM   #27
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

Quote:
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but we are considering this a warm weather bus
Ours is primarily a fair weather RV also, so whether the foil works as advertized or not is mostly academic. A good pair of slippers would probably be much more effective in keeping feet warm. One thing the floor insulation did do is knock down the noise level inside the bus quite a bit.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:03 PM   #28
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

I just went with 3/4" xps foam board, with 1/2" osb. Ill be bolting the corners of the osb to the steel before we drive anywhere.
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Old 01-13-2014, 08:40 AM   #29
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

Major kudos! Looks great and love the name! What are you're plans for the floor layout?
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:28 PM   #30
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Re: "Terrapin" the 1989 Thomas

Redbear, I'll try to draw up a floor plan soon, were still debating on some things

But on a different note, we got insurance today! with progressive for only $214/year for liability
(..apparently I am a professional bus converter hahaha)
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