The Albatross Chronicles; bird meets Blue Bird, silliness ensues

[Elliot Naess]

Now... at the last moment.... I am measuring more, and planning more.... And I think a pusher will be better, after all. LOL

Because... I see that I can place the Albatross low enough, that the bus engine will conflict with the driver, just like in the original bus layout.

In other words.... The Albatross fits the bus body even better than I first thought.

Instead of a tailgate, I could make a side-gate. For larger toys, we can always use a trailer.

[Lowkee]

This looks like it belongs at Burningman <3

[Elliot Naess]

Oh, absolutely. That's the main purpose of the veranda at the rear. And the veranda is the reason I was thinking front engine all along -- primarily to move the engine noise away from the veranda.

But engine noise is a nuisance up front also.

Since I will likely buy a bus this Monday, I'm all over both Albatross and Millicent with tape measure and notepad this morning. And I'm drawing the bus components onto the side of the Albatross with chalk.

It's very close. The engine will fit below the floor -- that is, the cockpit floor, which will be roughly at the level of the top of the doghouse.

Decisions, decisions.

[EastCoastCB]

See- I told ya RE was prolly the way to go!

[Elliot Naess]

And then.... I changed back to Front Engine again. LOL

My mind was working with a 37 foot long bus, and then 3 feet of Albatross would stick out in front. But if I slide the bird back around 14-16 inches, the entire engine will fit forward of the "firewall" in the Albatross. That is, in the bow compartment of the "boat". That would hugely simplify things.

Just an example of how my brain works. It can get stuck on something that is not actually very important, but sooner or later I "see the light".

And the bus may not be exactly 37 feet. Won't know that until Monday.

So... currently Front Engine. Stand by for the next whiplash-inducing switcharoo. LOL

[Elliot Naess]

Bus acquired. (Buwahahahahaha...!)
1994 BB TC2000 front engine, Cummins 5.9, Allison AT545, 37' 9" long (that's one 27" seat row short of 40').
The AT545 is a drawback, but sometimes it is not productive to insist on perfection.
The tires are iffy -- one threw its cap only a few miles out.
But... $2,500. Drives like a dream.

[EastCoastCB]

Can't wait to see this thing take flight!

[Njsurf73]

I hope you take tons of pictures of the mash up. I will be watching eagerly.

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[Elliot Naess]

And the lady at Western Bus Sales wants a photo for her scrap book. She has quite a collection of "her" buses that have been cleverly converted.

And yes, to my own surprise, I wound up buying a bus from a dealer. Of course, I negotiated the price down to "my speed". (Don't try this at home -- I'm a professional. )

She has another just like it, except it's a 1993 and has a tad over 300,000 miles on it. And you will have to do your own haggling from the asking price of $5,900. But she is definitely flexible on this one as well.

Also, she has a 1994 pusher, and it has the MT643 transmission. And it is in very good condition, because it has been their "house bus" for over three years -- driver training, driver license tests, and such -- so it has been well maintained. Closer to firm on the $5,900 with that one, though, she said.

Western Bus Sales, Boring, Oregon. Wonderfully friendly and helpful lady named Donna. Their inventory is on their website.

By fluke, this location is only about ten miles from where we bought our first bus 12 years ago! We drove right past that First Student yard.
The next year, we bought Millicent also in the Portland area.

[Njsurf73]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

And the lady at Western Bus Sales wants a photo for her scrap book. She has quite a collection of "her" buses that have been cleverly converted.

And yes, to my own surprise, I wound up buying a bus from a dealer. Of course, I negotiated the price down to "my speed". (Don't try this at home -- I'm a professional. )

She has another just like it, except it's a 1993 and has a tad over 300,000 miles on it. And you will have to do your own haggling from the asking price of $5,900. But she is definitely flexible on this one as well.

Also, she has a 1994 pusher, and it has the MT643 transmission. And it is in very good condition, because it has been their "house bus" for over three years -- driver training, driver license tests, and such -- so it has been well maintained. Closer to firm on the $5,900 with that one, though, she said.

Western Bus Sales, Boring, Oregon. Wonderfully friendly and helpful lady named Donna. Their inventory is on their website.

By fluke, this location is only about ten miles from where we bought our first bus 12 years ago! We drove right past that First Student yard.
The next year, we bought Millicent also in the Portland area.

Only on the other side of the country! I am always good for a road trip, but work schedule limits me to a weekend radius.

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[cadillackid]

this project is too cool for school!!!

makes me want a BIG BUS!!

as for the AT545, transmissions can be swapped... if a Plane can be outfitted to the front of a bus, then a Tranny swap can be done in a weekend
-Christopher

[Tango]

Excellent!!! Let the madness begin!

[M1031A1]

My wife has let it be known there are special padded rooms for such people as us....... I suspect she was not including herself when she made that statement. Go for it!

[Elliot Naess]

Transmission upgrade -- certainly. And perhaps to a stick, while I'm at it.
On that note....
The engine is different with AT545 compared with MT643. Not the engine itself, but the placement of the turbocharger.

On these engines, the starter is mounted to the bell-housing, rather than the engine block.
The MT643 bell-housing has the starter on the right. And the exhaust manifold points up, with the turbo above the engine so it will not overheat the starter.
The AT545 bell-housing has the starter on the left. Thus the exhaust manifold can -- and does -- point down, placing the turbo next to the frame, and right where the starter is on the MT643.

This is why the dog house is lower. It also improves access to the front of the engine, since the bulky plumbing for the turbo is tucked down by the frame, instead of on top of the engine.

I will say this for the AT545: It works, and works very smoothly. There is so much slippage in the torque converter that the driver practically never notices gear changes. The engine revs up and just stays there thru the gears, much like a Continuously Variable Transmission.

Perfect for the average "housewife" school bus driver.

And I suspect that the slippage provides a benefit: The silly thing is after all a torque converter, and I think it actually "converts torque" whenever it is under load. In other words, I lose 200 RPMs, but gain power to the wheels. Perfectly logical, of course; it's what a torque converter does, in contrast to a fluid coupling.

It's not a big difference, but the engine seemed a tiny bit stronger than Millicent's.

The downside, of course, is heat. All that churning of the fluid between the several moving elements of the torque converter creates heat -- THE killer of automatic transmissions.
So I will not be setting out for Donner Summit without a huge auxiliary transmission cooler. Or an "RTO-10".

[Njsurf73]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Transmission upgrade -- certainly. And perhaps to a stick, while I'm at it.
On that note....
The engine is different with AT545 compared with MT643. Not the engine itself, but the placement of the turbocharger.

On these engines, the starter is mounted to the bell-housing, rather than the engine block.
The MT643 bell-housing has the starter on the right. And the exhaust manifold points up, with the turbo above the engine so it will not overheat the starter.
The AT545 bell-housing has the starter on the left. Thus the exhaust manifold can -- and does -- point down, placing the turbo next to the frame, and right where the starter is on the MT643.

This is why the dog house is lower. It also improves access to the front of the engine, since the bulky plumbing for the turbo is tucked down by the frame, instead of on top of the engine.

I will say this for the AT545: It works, and works very smoothly. There is so much slippage in the torque converter that the driver practically never notices gear changes. The engine revs up and just stays there thru the gears, much like a Continuously Variable Transmission.

Perfect for the average "housewife" school bus driver.

And I suspect that the slippage provides a benefit: The silly thing is after all a torque converter, and I think it actually "converts torque" whenever it is under load. In other words, I lose 200 RPMs, but gain power to the wheels. Perfectly logical, of course; it's what a torque converter does, in contrast to a fluid coupling.

It's not a big difference, but the engine seemed a tiny bit stronger than Millicent's.

The downside, of course, is heat. All that churning of the fluid between the several moving elements of the torque converter creates heat -- THE killer of automatic transmissions.
So I will not be setting out for Donner Summit without a huge auxiliary transmission cooler. Or an "RTO-10".

Hey! Maybe the trans cooler can be integrated into the "jet intake" form AND function.


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[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Transmission upgrade -- certainly. And perhaps to a stick, while I'm at it.
On that note....
The engine is different with AT545 compared with MT643. Not the engine itself, but the placement of the turbocharger.

On these engines, the starter is mounted to the bell-housing, rather than the engine block.
The MT643 bell-housing has the starter on the right. And the exhaust manifold points up, with the turbo above the engine so it will not overheat the starter.
The AT545 bell-housing has the starter on the left. Thus the exhaust manifold can -- and does -- point down, placing the turbo next to the frame, and right where the starter is on the MT643.

This is why the dog house is lower. It also improves access to the front of the engine, since the bulky plumbing for the turbo is tucked down by the frame, instead of on top of the engine.

I will say this for the AT545: It works, and works very smoothly. There is so much slippage in the torque converter that the driver practically never notices gear changes. The engine revs up and just stays there thru the gears, much like a Continuously Variable Transmission.

Perfect for the average "housewife" school bus driver.

And I suspect that the slippage provides a benefit: The silly thing is after all a torque converter, and I think it actually "converts torque" whenever it is under load. In other words, I lose 200 RPMs, but gain power to the wheels. Perfectly logical, of course; it's what a torque converter does, in contrast to a fluid coupling.

It's not a big difference, but the engine seemed a tiny bit stronger than Millicent's.

The downside, of course, is heat. All that churning of the fluid between the several moving elements of the torque converter creates heat -- THE killer of automatic transmissions.
So I will not be setting out for Donner Summit without a huge auxiliary transmission cooler. Or an "RTO-10".

your 545 must be different than mine... I get a nice kick in the butt each time my DEV bus shifts.. I actually like that feel...

my redbyrd is smoother but still a noticeable push on each shift..
-Christopher

[Elliot Naess]

The "jet intake" will be all intercooler and radiator.

[Njsurf73]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

The "jet intake" will be all intercooler and radiator.

Cool! I wasn't far off.


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[Elliot Naess]

Yeah, turns out... I can fit the engine in front of the firewall after all, by moving the "bird" further back than originally thought. By firewall, I mean the rear bulkhead of the bow compartment, which now becomes the firewall. It is located something like 18 inches in front of the driver's pedals, so... perfect.
This puts the radiator close to the "jet intake", and, miraculously, it fits there.

I had this drawn on the bird with chalk, but the rain washed it off. I will draw it again and take a photo.

[Njsurf73]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

Yeah, turns out... I can fit the engine in front of the firewall after all, by moving the "bird" further back than originally thought. By firewall, I mean the rear bulkhead of the bow compartment, which now becomes the firewall. It is located something like 18 inches in front of the driver's pedals, so... perfect.
This puts the radiator close to the "jet intake", and, miraculously, it fits there.

I had this drawn on the bird with chalk, but the rain washed it off. I will draw it again and take a photo.

It's going to be cool. Lol

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