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Old 11-03-2014, 04:18 AM   #241
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Hi, I have couple quick questions for you. I can see your bus has storage under the floor. Is it all the way from side to side and from front to back or just few boxes/compartments? And what is your clearance to the ground? I built full "basement" on my bus and left about 10" clearance.

Thanks
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Old 11-03-2014, 01:20 PM   #242
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Yes, there are double doors on each side, and it's one large compartment that reaches across front to back and side to side. (the reason I bought that particular bus! )

10" sounds about right, I'll need to measure it. There is a large panel covering the frame rails in the middle, so there is (as manufactured) no access up inside the frame rails. I plan on removing that center panel so I can stand water tanks straight up in the center between the rails, allowing access to directly below the floor as well.

When I get a chance, I'll get some dimensions and post them. Take a look at the build thread for "Big Bertha" I think they have nearly the same layout I have, without the roof raise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad
Hi, I have couple quick questions for you. I can see your bus has storage under the floor. Is it all the way from side to side and from front to back or just few boxes/compartments? And what is your clearance to the ground? I built full "basement" on my bus and left about 10" clearance.

Thanks
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Old 11-03-2014, 11:14 PM   #243
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Just did some internet surfing and ran across www.rvtechmag.com and in their reviews they check out a unit called an Earthbound RV which has holding tanks that are coated with a ceramic infused insulation which has an R-13 insulation factor, would be great for the front cap and dash where insulation needs to be thin. Also I have a large amount of 1/2" dacron sound insulation about 6" wide by 5 feet long some plain and some with aluminum facing on one side if you need some. Also I still have the two holding tanks available as well as three toilets.
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:05 AM   #244
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb
Yes, there are double doors on each side, and it's one large compartment that reaches across front to back and side to side. (the reason I bought that particular bus! )

10" sounds about right, I'll need to measure it. There is a large panel covering the frame rails in the middle, so there is (as manufactured) no access up inside the frame rails. I plan on removing that center panel so I can stand water tanks straight up in the center between the rails, allowing access to directly below the floor as well.

When I get a chance, I'll get some dimensions and post them. Take a look at the build thread for "Big Bertha" I think they have nearly the same layout I have, without the roof raise.
Thanks for your reply. I wasn't so lucky to have "basement", so I built one 17'x8'x2'.

I can see you work on your insulation. I still have few things to do before insulation. I can see you put 2" insulation between "studs". You have voids near studs. Do you want to go over with 1" foam to cover everything? If yes how do you think to attach your paneling over the foam?

I was thinking about screwing 3/4" plywood striping to studs(ribs) to have something to hold paneling later. I know plywood over steel ribs is not going to be the greatest insulation....
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:19 PM   #245
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

I love all the work you've put into this build! Such a custom setup.
Just wondering what you're thought process was in choosing that particular type of foam board for insulation. I'm planning on using foil-faced polyiso board like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/TUFF-R-2-in- ... 5yc1vZbaxx

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous of your metalworking skills and unimog.... someday!
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:19 PM   #246
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

I'd say go with the polyiso, it's a better insulator. The reason I went with the EPS is more to do with cost than anything else.

There is a rule of diminishing return on engineered or installed R value for a given structure, and for my needs, I felt my money was better spent on other items. For example, I plan on insulating the basement from the underside, and the doors for the basement with the same "cheap" foam, and also applying a bed liner cover over the insulation in those areas to keep up durability.

If I had gone with the polyiso, the funds for doing that would have gone to just the foam board itself. Additionally, r value is one component in many to make the insulation effective, and I think the returns on the r value difference will not be all together that much different.

Here's a toy to play with some numbers:

http://chuck-wright.com/calculators/insulpb.html

There's a huge body of work related to this. I am not a civil engineer, I just stayed in a holiday in express one time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles_m
I love all the work you've put into this build! Such a custom setup.
Just wondering what you're thought process was in choosing that particular type of foam board for insulation. I'm planning on using foil-faced polyiso board like this:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/TUFF-R-2-in- ... 5yc1vZbaxx

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't jealous of your metalworking skills and unimog.... someday!
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:24 PM   #247
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

I purchased stock in the Dow chemical company buy buying about 30 cans of "good stuff" spray foam (red can). With the nozzle I am spending time injecting spray foam into the crevice and gaps around each panel installed in the bus. Then, I'm shaving it down flush with a wire wheel.

After that, I will tape the seam with foil tape, and apply an elastic foam tape that's about 1/8" thick. Then, on top of THAT, I'll be installing 1" eps foam board (foil facing inwards) jointed to the wooden support boards. If I'm feeling jaunty I may spray foam the gaps between the wood boards and the 1" boards, but most likely I'll just do a close fit, then foil tape the 1" boards to the wooden support boards you seen in the pictures. I fully expect the interior to look like a giant jiffy-pop pan when done.

On top of that, I'll install the finish panels, which I'm trying to decide between white ABS plastic with a fine sand texture finish, or .060 FRP panel with the same texture finish. I'm leaning towards ABS due to it's ease of install.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb
Yes, there are double doors on each side, and it's one large compartment that reaches across front to back and side to side. (the reason I bought that particular bus! )

10" sounds about right, I'll need to measure it. There is a large panel covering the frame rails in the middle, so there is (as manufactured) no access up inside the frame rails. I plan on removing that center panel so I can stand water tanks straight up in the center between the rails, allowing access to directly below the floor as well.

When I get a chance, I'll get some dimensions and post them. Take a look at the build thread for "Big Bertha" I think they have nearly the same layout I have, without the roof raise.
Thanks for your reply. I wasn't so lucky to have "basement", so I built one 17'x8'x2'.

I can see you work on your insulation. I still have few things to do before insulation. I can see you put 2" insulation between "studs". You have voids near studs. Do you want to go over with 1" foam to cover everything? If yes how do you think to attach your paneling over the foam?

I was thinking about screwing 3/4" plywood striping to studs(ribs) to have something to hold paneling later. I know plywood over steel ribs is not going to be the greatest insulation....
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:21 PM   #248
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

My point is how are you going to install your finishing panels? Are you going to glue them to foam? Btw I found a bunch of iso boards on Craigslist. Picked them up today. Got a great deal 15CAD for 4x8 sheet 2 inch thick.
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:33 PM   #249
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public service announcement

Working on a bus is a lot easier when slightly drunk with loud music playing.
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Old 11-08-2014, 03:06 AM   #250
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Cold bridge example

As a science experiment, I tried applying my sealing foil tape directly to the rib on the right, and on the left, the actual setup, which is 1/8" acrylic foam tape applied to the rib, followed by the same mylar tape.

As you can plainly see from the photo, there is significant condensation of moisture on the right, while the left is completely dry.

Some numbers:

time/date/location: 23:30, November 7 2014, Seattle, WA
outdoor relative humidity: 90%
indoor relative humidity: 60%
outside air temp: 41 F
inside air temp: 65 F
vehicle exterior surface temp: 41 F
surface temp of 2" foam, taken from center of panel: 64 F
surface temp of rib with acrylic foam covered by mylar tape: 59 F
surface temp of rib without acrylic foam covered by mlyar tape: 41 F

As you can see, the cold bridge just rolls on through the steel structure like it doesn't give a damn. Even 1/8" of cheap foam insulation tape makes a significant improvement.

If you are spraying foam directly over your ribs and structure, you're set. Unfortunately spraying 1000 square feet of surface area to a 3" depth was out of the cards for me, price-wise.

Instead, I'm laying down foam boards, and I'll need to seal all the gaps. Not ideal, but it shows how much thermal loss there is in a vehicle that retains the original structure inside without modifying it if you're planning on occupying for longer periods of time.

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Old 11-11-2014, 03:29 AM   #251
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Looks a little creepy in here with all the foil surfaces.

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Old 11-12-2014, 04:02 AM   #252
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

The value of insulation is rapidly becoming apparent. It is currently 32 degrees f outside with 30 mph sustained winds. I haven't started insulating the floor or end caps yet. The walls and rear are getting close. With the small electric radiator I can maintain 65 degrees from the waist up. The first 10 inches off the floor are about 45 degrees. Air temp at the ceiling is about 75.

If I turn on the propane heater buddy it gets too hot to work in about 20 minutes.

I hope my choice of foam panels over spraying doesn't bite me in the ass later with condensation issues. As a test I pulled a panel back to the metal and it was really cold but dry. Within about a minute condensation started to form on the metal.

This was a skin panel that I originally plopped foam against without even bothering to wipe the condensation off originallly, so I was wondering if it would just get wetter or dry out.

Does anyone have long term experience with a foam panel insulates vehicle like this? How did it fare after a few years? I have three inches of polystyrene panel with foil to the outside and inside.

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Old 11-17-2014, 01:27 PM   #253
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Floor support rails installed. They are cut down pressure treated 2x4's to 2" tall, to accommodate 2" foam insulation. The fasteners used are 1-3/4" self tapping hex head screws with a washer head. They are countersunk into the wood. I'll be applying some sealing primer to the untreated surfaces of the strips, as well as the underside of the plywood that will be laid on top.



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Old 11-21-2014, 04:00 AM   #254
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Floor plywood almost installed. After it is all cut and fitted I'll lift it back up and paint the underside with some killz primer to seal it a bit.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:32 PM   #255
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Its looking great man. Keep up the good work!
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:50 PM   #256
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Very nice work...all that silver reminds me of a space shuttle
Keep on with great build!
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Old 12-01-2014, 03:57 AM   #257
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Amazingly I can see the light at the end of the insulation tunnel. A couple more finish panels in the cockpit, the rear, and floor is all that is left.

I decided to take a little break from the polystyrene and fix the remote start in the engine bay. I was pretty sure the bus wasn’t going to start in the cold weather but at least it will be ready later. New starter switch and engine bay lamp switch. I cleaned the gauge up a bit too. Now I can fire it remotely which is cool.

Still needs the key switch in the on position though.







Oh OK, here are a few insulated bus shots too. I should draw future window frames on the walls.





I've started posting this on my blog first, and then copy-pasta to the forum. Whats the rules for posting links to content on other sites?

I stash my stuff here: http://www.bockelie.com
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Old 12-01-2014, 03:58 AM   #258
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

I think the first framing to go in will be the kid bunks, and partition wall for our bedroom. That sets the space for the toilet and shower, followed by the passenger seating/common area/dining room.

I should post a sketch of the layout.
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Old 12-01-2014, 04:06 AM   #259
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

We had some snow for the first time this season. I am pretty pleased with the results on the roof. As you can see the garage which is unheated, has most of the snow melted off it, probably due to the dark roof.

The bus next to it still has snow on it, and the interior is kept at about 68 Fahrenheit with an electric space heater. I'm happy to see that my effort is not in vain.



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Old 12-01-2014, 11:10 AM   #260
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

What sort of entrance door are you going to make?

I assume you won't be using the outward opening 2-panel service door as your entrance door.
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