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Old 12-01-2014, 01:50 PM   #261
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Yes, I plan on replacing the door. I'd like to build a new door that opens "normally" with the hinge located towards the front.

One thing I've noticed on this bus is that the road side from the wheel to the front end slopes upwards, and the curb side sticks straight out (for the door entrance) and over the years various drivers (or driver?) has rammed that squared off corner into things.

When it comes time to change it, I'll trim the opening down and fill it in with sheet metal to match the road side. There will be recessed steps that can pull out to allow stepping into the vehicle, so the whole stepwell area will be reduced in size, possibly with only a single step down on the inside. So, basically, the door will be up high, with extensions that telescope outwards to provide "stairs" on the outside of the bus.

Here's a reference for the road side of the bus, I like the angle look it has. I'm planning on having the same shape on the other side.

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Old 12-04-2014, 12:49 PM   #262
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Awesome work. I love the way you did the roof raise my friend! Reminds me of the old scenicruisers! Excellent metalworking.
I like how the rear turned out as well. Super cool.
You said the lil space heater is enough to keep the bus warm--what kind of outside temps are you getting where you live? What's your plan for heat when the bus is done?
Looks like it's buttoned up real tight!
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:32 PM   #263
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Hello aaronsb, I have a question, which way the foam insulation goes, the aluminium foil towards the metal or towards the inside of the bus?

J
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:10 PM   #264
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Thanks, I like how the scenicrusisers look. I wanted the slope further forward than the scenicrusiers though, thats why it ended up where it was at.

The rear was planned the way it turned out, but I didn't make any sketches or actually draw it ahead of time. I sort of "colored in between the lines" so to speak. I wanted that inside overhang, and wanted to avoid a curved rear end.

The space heater is enough to keep the vehicle at about 66-68 degrees F during the nights when it has been about 28-30 degrees outside. When the temperature is in the 40's (F) I have to turn the heater down a bit or I get too warm working.

I hope that in the summer, the reverse is somewhat true, that I can maintain workable temperatures without too much effort.

I have a number of ideas/plans for heat. Since I will be involving a propane tank mounted on the road side of the vehicle, behind the front wheel (a large empty space between the skirt and the frame) I would like to leverage that fuel.


1) (propane) Forced air propane furnace
2) (diesel) Hydronic diesel heater with a re-purposed under seat heater core (this can keep the engine and /or the bus warm with valving)
3) (diesel, prime mover waste heat) Engine heat (while driving)
4) (propane) instant on hot water heater (not really a "heater" but a source of heat)
5) (diesel, apu power and/or waste heat) air conditioning - see below

#5 is a little out there and I'm not sure if I can get it done or not:

Basically, I would like to get a 1.6 litre VW diesel engine, and adapt it as an APU. It would have a very large alternator and an air conditioning compressor attached to the flywheel output. With some relatively simple valving, it is possible to combine it's cooling system into the existing heater core. From the APU I can get heating, cooling, and electricity.

I have concerns about it's size and weight with the additional accessories, as well as it's overall fuel consumption. It might be ok, might not. They are relatively cheap and easy to work on, and certain models have hydraulic lifters so maintenance is not as much of an issue. Since the engine would be driving a DC system, (rectified ac alternator) RPM dependency isn't really an issue.

The split AC system I'm looking at is a DC only split system reversible (can be used as a heat pump)

Between all of that laundry list, cooling and heating should not be terribly difficult. Budget will though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by charles_m
Awesome work. I love the way you did the roof raise my friend! Reminds me of the old scenicruisers! Excellent metalworking.
I like how the rear turned out as well. Super cool.
You said the lil space heater is enough to keep the bus warm--what kind of outside temps are you getting where you live? What's your plan for heat when the bus is done?
Looks like it's buttoned up real tight!
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:19 PM   #265
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

The foam insulation is a couple layers. There are two foam layers, with the foil backing facing both the outside and the inside. I'll describe it here:

1. Exterior Sheet metal
2. Small air gap where possible (approximately 1-2 mm)
3. 2" polystyrene foam
a. foil backing
b. 2"polystyrene
c. poly plastic substrate
4. Mylar hvac tape on foam block seams
a. There are 1x3 furring strips at 24" intervals the length of the bus to hold the foam in place and provide a solid backing for attaching the final interior wall and other items (lights, walls, cabinets etc). A single self tap screw holds the wood to each metal rib. The screw is the cold bridge between the steel exterior and interior.
b. 0.125" thick acrylic foam tape placed over each screw head to mitigate thermal conduction.
5. 0.75" polystyrene foam
a. poly plastic substrate
b. 0.75" polystyrene foam
c. foil backing
6. Mylar hvac tape on foam block seams
7. ABS sheet panels (this is the final interior permanently affixed)
8. Wallpaper, fabric, or other decorative coverings.


PS: I forgot to add that a number of areas where I was lazy or didn't get the foam cut quite right, I filled cracks with the red can "great stuff" spray foam. I probably burned through about 10-15 cans of the stuff. It was on sale for like 2 bucks a can when I got it so it's not like I put a lot of money into dow's bank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by juliol
Hello aaronsb, I have a question, which way the foam insulation goes, the aluminium foil towards the metal or towards the inside of the bus?

J
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Old 12-05-2014, 02:39 AM   #266
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb
Basically, I would like to get a 1.6 litre VW diesel engine, and adapt it as an APU. It would have a very large alternator and an air conditioning compressor attached to the flywheel output. With some relatively simple valving, it is possible to combine it's cooling system into the existing heater core. From the APU I can get heating, cooling, and electricity.

I have concerns about it's size and weight with the additional accessories, as well as it's overall fuel consumption. It might be ok, might not. They are relatively cheap and easy to work on, and certain models have hydraulic lifters so maintenance is not as much of an issue. Since the engine would be driving a DC system, (rectified ac alternator) RPM dependency isn't really an issue.
Why would you need 1.6 monster? All you need is 5-6 HP diesel or gas engine to run your alternator. I guess you want to charge batteries and get your 110v power via inverter?

I started This thread:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=468226

I can see the biggest issue is noise and not even power...
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Old 12-06-2014, 02:39 AM   #267
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

I suppose if I'm pushing an 12,000 btu DC air conditioner, along with a direct drive compressor air conditioner (say, another 15,000 btu) and using house power it might utilize the capability of the motor. I am mostly concerned about noise, and basically a car engine running slightly above idle (say, 1600 rpm) is easy to keep quiet. The water jacket on the motor quiets the engine considerably.

The size of the alternator I'm looking at is quite large:

http://www.americanpowerinc.com/56%20vd ... 0power.htm




Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb
Basically, I would like to get a 1.6 litre VW diesel engine, and adapt it as an APU. It would have a very large alternator and an air conditioning compressor attached to the flywheel output. With some relatively simple valving, it is possible to combine it's cooling system into the existing heater core. From the APU I can get heating, cooling, and electricity.

I have concerns about it's size and weight with the additional accessories, as well as it's overall fuel consumption. It might be ok, might not. They are relatively cheap and easy to work on, and certain models have hydraulic lifters so maintenance is not as much of an issue. Since the engine would be driving a DC system, (rectified ac alternator) RPM dependency isn't really an issue.
Why would you need 1.6 monster? All you need is 5-6 HP diesel or gas engine to run your alternator. I guess you want to charge batteries and get your 110v power via inverter?

I started This thread:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=468226

I can see the biggest issue is noise and not even power...
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Old 12-06-2014, 04:11 AM   #268
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb
I suppose if I'm pushing an 12,000 btu DC air conditioner, along with a direct drive compressor air conditioner (say, another 15,000 btu) and using house power it might utilize the capability of the motor. I am mostly concerned about noise, and basically a car engine running slightly above idle (say, 1600 rpm) is easy to keep quiet. The water jacket on the motor quiets the engine considerably.

The size of the alternator I'm looking at is quite large:

http://www.americanpowerinc.com/56%20vd ... 0power.htm




Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsb
Basically, I would like to get a 1.6 litre VW diesel engine, and adapt it as an APU. It would have a very large alternator and an air conditioning compressor attached to the flywheel output. With some relatively simple valving, it is possible to combine it's cooling system into the existing heater core. From the APU I can get heating, cooling, and electricity.

I have concerns about it's size and weight with the additional accessories, as well as it's overall fuel consumption. It might be ok, might not. They are relatively cheap and easy to work on, and certain models have hydraulic lifters so maintenance is not as much of an issue. Since the engine would be driving a DC system, (rectified ac alternator) RPM dependency isn't really an issue.
Why would you need 1.6 monster? All you need is 5-6 HP diesel or gas engine to run your alternator. I guess you want to charge batteries and get your 110v power via inverter?

I started This thread:
viewtopic.php?f=38&t=468226

I can see the biggest issue is noise and not even power...
12000 BTU is just one ton unit. 1 ton AC compressors are just over 1KW.

Here are some concerns:
1. Weight. Do you really want to carry 300lb to charge your batteries? You need 2 KW to charge batteries and 1 KW to run your AC compressor.

2. The Alternator you want to use is another monster (9-10 KW). What are you going to do with 10 KW power? It will charge your batteries in minutes, but in theory. In reality it will blow them or keep charging at slow inefficient rate.

3. Fuel economy.... I don't think diesel at idle will be very efficient.

4. Any diesel will not like Idle or fast Idle for a long time. It will carbonize itself.

Look at this little puppy:

http://us.yanmar.com/products/industria ... ries/l70v/

It only takes 270 g/kW-hr which is next to nothing. It delivers 4.3 KW @ 3600 rpm. You don't even need this much. You can run it @ 1800 rpm and this will give you 2 KW to charge batteries. Also 1800 rpm makes it much easier to lower noise level.

You can get bigger 10 HP version and attach alternator and ac compressor to it and still keep it @ 1800 rpm.

Bigger is not always better. It will cost money to turn bigger 4 cylinder engine. It will never be as fuel saver as 1 cylinder.

There is one more concern about automotive alternators. They are not very efficient. I am thinking about permanent magnet alternator something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Freedom-II-PMG- ... 43d16cfc60
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http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/98-bluebird-tc2000-conversion-2-feet-roof-raise-3-slideouts-9728.html
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:47 AM   #269
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

I think at the beginning of this project I had envisioned bunks that were fixed, like little kennels or cubbies that the kids can hide in. Recently though, I’ve come to terms with the limited space inside the bus, and I think that foldable “murphy” beds are the best option.

This setup with a tall ceiling height allows a pretty comfortable arrangement I think. In the photos below, the bed is a full size twin frame, that allows a mattress up to about 12 inches thick without any spring support, or about a 7 to 8 inch mattress with a wood rib support.

Not shown on the dimensional drawing of the bunks is a cross support that the cantilever bunks rest on when open. That is a full 1×3 square tube (one for each bed) that both ties the ends together, and acts as a stop to keep the bunk from pivoting too far.

The hinge pins are simple weld-on pins. I am mulling over the idea of how to cause the top bunk to intentionally over-extend to facilitate making it up (like stretching the fitted sheet over the mattress. Not entirely sure yet.

It’s pretty clear there’s some significant space savings with folding bunks. I’ll use sliding pocket doors to access the bath and shower on the opposing side, so that should afford a little walk way in the night time.

I'm pretty excited about the design, I'll be out to buy the metal tomorrow - hopefully I can start assembling this in the next few days.





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Old 12-09-2014, 10:13 PM   #270
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Re: The Broccoli Bus

This looks sweet. Murph beds are a good idea. What software are you using?
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