The Broccoli Bus

[Dirtdoctor]

What a pant load--- find a international truck dealer- they do it all the time, bring the whole trick in -not just the computers (engine and trans have their own computers)
I told the dealer I needed the 6th gear for economy and since I have a dumpster truck 50% of my driving is empty - The trans shop won't do it because they don't claim to know the whole truck- where as the truck dealership knows the whole thing.
But remember that 6th gear is not for pulling hills or loads so don't abuse it.
Don't take no for an answer! Persist and pester. Bring tri tip sandwiches-etc. talk to the mechanics. Try a different shop. International guys do it all the time.
Jack.

[milkmania]

Originally Posted by jazty

If you have an air compressor, you're half way there. A used 4x rivet gun for solid rivets on eBay will set you back $100-150. I bought mine for $120. Sure glad I did. Solid rivets are cheaper and plenty more strong. The hard part is finding a willing helper, since it's a two person process. Oh, and they seal up the hole, unlike standard blind rivets. Now, they do sell closed blind rivets which will seal the hole, but the cost is astronomical. Remember, you should be using steel rivets since the base metal is steel.. Aluminum is the most common material for blind rivets, but mixing metals will result in galvanic corrosion

You'll also need a bucking bar if you plan on going the solid rivet route. They can be purchased on eBay for $20-30. I bought one, but ended up also using chunks of steel that I got for free at a local steel warehouse. They often will have a scrap pile that they don't care much about.

Some pictures: http://books.google.ca/books?id=ViUm...w%20to&f=false



That is essentially what I did, for the back of the bus anyway. I also removed the rivets on the left and right side of the front roof piece so it could be pried up and the sheet metal slipped underneath it. Putting the rivets back in wasn't a huge deal. It's just a bit tight up there.

I found this video riveting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQaMz7rtqY

[milkmania]

pretty cool video with great explanation...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDbTUt3OG9s

although, the narrator reminded me of Ben Stein from

Ferris Bueller's Day Off

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by Dirtdoctor

What a pant load--- find a international truck dealer- they do it all the time, bring the whole trick in -not just the computers (engine and trans have their own computers)
I told the dealer I needed the 6th gear for economy and since I have a dumpster truck 50% of my driving is empty - The trans shop won't do it because they don't claim to know the whole truck- where as the truck dealership knows the whole thing.
But remember that 6th gear is not for pulling hills or loads so don't abuse it.
Don't take no for an answer! Persist and pester. Bring tri tip sandwiches-etc. talk to the mechanics. Try a different shop. International guys do it all the time.
Jack.

This is good to know... I do understand "liability" issue that transmission shop is bringing up. I could even sign a liability waiver... but

I am a big fan of manual transmission and I feel like I will hack this transmission and build my own "manual" shifting box anyways.

[Tango]

Good luck hacking it. There are forums full of folks who have been working on that process. Some for several years. It apparently involves a lot of proprietary code that the manufacturer will not release. I have zero understanding of what it involves but have followed some of the threads for quite a while. There are a number of them over on "4BT swaps.com".

Best of luck with it.

[Dirtdoctor]

The guy that was going around the existing programming for navistar engines is doing time for a federal crime- regarding federal emission standards. I'd not want to mess with the engine computer- who knows how far the Feds consider messing with the transmission computer- if that also is considered emissions tampering.
Just persist when ever you see a navistar dealership- it takes about 10 minutes. But request the letter from the truck maker that it is out of warrantee and not a commercial truck but a personal RV. Don't forget to mention those points and include the VID in all your correspondence and include the name of the dealership where you want the work done.

[aaronsb]

Fortunately I have a "stupid 'ol mechanical Cummins 8.3CTA" engine with a Bosch P7100 pump and 12 valves. The only electrical engine management bit is the fuel lever cutoff solenoid.

I suppose the throttle position sensor counts too, but that's part of the transmission, thankfully.

It would be an awesome exercise to build a replacement computer for the allison gearbox on there. PWM driving the solenoid packs to select all the gears is all it's really doing.

The trick is writing software code that will never:

Crash or break the computer in a way that causes the gearbox to explode, lock up the rear tires and kill people.

Shift hard or cause unnecessary wear on the gearbox

Operate in some corner edge case that causes something like zero engine retard on descending a hill

And a million other things that would worry me greatly. In the end, at least with my vehicle the tires and wheels are tall enough to reach about 65 mph @ 1850 rpm, 63 mph @ 1800 rpm. I would love to have that 6th gear to get the engine rpm a little lower still, but the risks involved in creating a wiring bypass is too high for my comfort.

I'll keep searching for someone who can replace the program with one that allows 6th gear, for now.

[milkmania]

Originally Posted by aaronsb

I know it's an old thread.... but, depending where you drive

[Tango]

BTW --- Dave at cumminsallisonconversions.com can reprogram 5's into 6's. He is very knowledgeable in that department and will share his opinions on the process.

[aaronsb]

Looks like I'll be making a phone call tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Tango

BTW --- Dave at cumminsallisonconversions.com can reprogram 5's into 6's. He is very knowledgeable in that department and will share his opinions on the process.

[milkmania]

Originally Posted by bansil

I am on the other side of this electrically

Since you have a fresh canvas do 50 amp from the get go

it barely costs extra maybe $100

I can use 120V 15/20/30/50 and also 240V w/50 so more options better

you need an electrical box to hold breakers (same)
breakers (same limit to 15 amps)
wire (same limit to 15 amps) 12ga wire is safe to 20 amps
so once you have the box mounted and 15 amp circuits run you are golden

what is difference in 30 and 50 amp service?

30 amp you have 2 light bulbs a fridge and small ac on

50 amp you have outside lights on, disco ball going, fridge, blender, microwave ,rotisserie, 2 fans and 2 heaters or AC on...plus hot water...all on at same time!!!

Party Time!!!!, Excellent!!



Seriously for the extra $5 at site (that's what we see) it's worth it to be able to do what ever you want

And seriously except for having to get 50 amp cord 25 ft at $90 VS 25 ft 30amp cord at $35 difference of $55
and
an adapter 50 amp to 30 amp $20
and
a 30 amp to 15 amp adapter $15

now we have and extra $55 + $20 + $15 = $90 more you have every option out there for pole power

stuff inside bus is the same, same number of outlets (you can add more now ), same size and amount of wiring (you will use more with extra outlets now ) and the extra breakers...because you can

see how my thinking works?


Damn that's long

can you run a 220 AC/Heat split system unit on a conversion?
like this
Mini Split Heat Pump Ductless Air Conditioner w/ Mitsubishi Compressor

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by aaronsb

Fortunately I have a "stupid 'ol mechanical Cummins 8.3CTA" engine with a Bosch P7100 pump and 12 valves. The only electrical engine management bit is the fuel lever cutoff solenoid.

I suppose the throttle position sensor counts too, but that's part of the transmission, thankfully.

It would be an awesome exercise to build a replacement computer for the allison gearbox on there. PWM driving the solenoid packs to select all the gears is all it's really doing.

The trick is writing software code that will never:

Crash or break the computer in a way that causes the gearbox to explode, lock up the rear tires and kill people.

Shift hard or cause unnecessary wear on the gearbox

Operate in some corner edge case that causes something like zero engine retard on descending a hill

And a million other things that would worry me greatly. In the end, at least with my vehicle the tires and wheels are tall enough to reach about 65 mph @ 1850 rpm, 63 mph @ 1800 rpm. I would love to have that 6th gear to get the engine rpm a little lower still, but the risks involved in creating a wiring bypass is too high for my comfort.

I'll keep searching for someone who can replace the program with one that allows 6th gear, for now.

My bus is as "stupid" as yours.. mechanical P pump. The transmission control is not really complicated in our case.

Here is a link to what I did with my truck torque converter lock a while ago see post #25 and after:

Manual Torque Converter Lock-up - Page 3 - DodgeForum.com

I used just speed sensor signal and ignored the rest. It works just the way I set it up since...

I do understand the whole transmission control box is a bit complicated, but to just add 6 gear is not a big deal at all.

I won't even touch the emission portion.

BTW you can buy some sort of fuel/power box for just about any vehicle and all this boxes change original emission setups. What about EGR delete kits?

Even our "stupid" engines can have different fuel pins and this will change emission for sure...

[Vlad]

Originally Posted by aaronsb

Looks like I'll be making a phone call tomorrow.

Cool, please keep us updated....

We all know the reason we want 6 gear unlocked.... better mpg's, lower engine rpm's at cruiser speed, etc, which all make our RV more environmentally friendly....

[thjakits]

I understand that EGR is a readheaded stepchild - mostly...

However you guys might want to have a look through everything this guy posted about EGR:

AutoSpeed - Technology, Efficiency, Performance

...just type in EGR under Search....

If properly "modified" - EGR becomes quite an efficiency tool!

Cheers,

thjakits

[aaronsb]

I'm still alive, we are getting our house ready for sale, at which point I will continue work on the bus. Hopefully with a little cash infusion to make things awesome.

We got some beauty bark today.

[sojourner]

Was wondering where you were. Looking forward to watching your progress.

[aaronsb]

I hope that perhaps the housing market will fund some necessary bus-related projects.

[aaronsb]

So I was driving on the highway yesterday...

It's hard to see the tach needle with the sunlight shining on it, but its indicating about 1700-1800 rpm there.

Moving down the road at 67ish, it seems a little faster than expected for a 5.39:1 rear end. Any thoughts?

Maybe the district that owned the bus couldn't get 6th overdrive unlocked either and changes out the r&p?

[EastCoastCB]

Show off...

That's pretty awesome, man.

[Tango]

Did not go back to see what engine you have, but 17-1800 is the "Sweet Spot" for 4 & 6 cylinder Cummins (along with many other diesels). Does not get much better than highway speed in that range.