The Bromobile Cruiser

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by Davard

Do a search for RV basement ACs. They are more expensive than roof ACs, but most are bigger (greater output) and are heaters (heat pumps) too.

Not that many motor homes used them, but when big headroom was a thing 20 years ago, they needed a way to raise the roof without raising the ACs (and constantly scraping them off). This let them raise the roof 10-12” inside and you could use shore power for heat in a campground instead of propane (important for extended camping).

Thank you for telling me about these!


Progress was made today! It's not fast progress because my grinder eats the batteries, I probably should get a larger battery. At first I was barely getting 2 bolts to a charge, not even getting one seat out in two 3.0AH batteries. Figuring that probably wasn't right, we went back to Home Depot and picked up a single purpose grinding disc. I was using a dual purpose cutting and grinding disc that was much thinner than the grinding disc. The new disc works better and we got two seats out before running out of batteries and we didn't have good access to a power outlet or an invertor. Still two seats out makes the back of the bus seem so much more spacious.

We went ahead and took off the rest of lower seat cushions in the rear of the bus where we we know we have to grind the seats out due to poor access from underneath.

On the way to park the bus we did run into a problem though.



We had been running a really consistent 174F with a minimum of 25 psi of oil pressure. This was taken at a stoplight after a brief stretch on the highway. The temperature got up to about 205F shortly beforehand. I'm a little surprised the engine stayed running at such a low oil pressure, iirc CAT specs that the engine requires a minimum of 18psi for the HEUI system to work. We had been driving around town a good chunk of the day with no issues prior, but is a little hard to see the water temp gauge as it is often blocked by the steering wheel. I know 205F is not really that hot but as this is the first time I've seen temps that high on this bus, I'm concerned.

At an idle the coolant temperature would very slowly come back down. The same happens on fast idle, but holding the RPMs at about 2200 raised the temperatures back past 175F in short order. I did check the coolant level in the filler neck and it is full as can be. I don't think it's an airflow issue since it's not overheating at a stand. I know the water pump belt is a little loose, and I have a new belt on hand for it.

I had been messing with the heater valves earlier in the day in an attempt to see if the heaters worked. The midship heater did not respond at all to the switches. Granted it turned out I had actually shut the valves instead of opening them, and left them shut after discovering what they actually at. I'm going to try opening them back up and see what happens.

[Native]

Wow, grinding off the bolt heads with a battery operated grinder. Kudos for your patience!


Regarding the coolant temperature ... tighten the water pump belt before you try to diagnose the problem. It may be your only problem. Also, the 3126 engine has two 190 degree thermostats (water temperature regulators). On a hot day or under heavy load, 205 degrees is not out of the question.

[Meathead]

Ok. I’m guy w same bus from Loudoun county. I drove 1000 miles home August 2019. Every time my temp got to approx 205* the fan would ROAR and within 20-25 seconds the temp would be back down to 185*.
This happened often. I hit rain in Mobile AL and thought “This is doing my motor good”. Nope, still did the 205-185 thing. My reservoir was also full.

First off your coolant is probably crap.
Second, your fan should ROAR at some point.

I’m not exactly sure what my problem was since I did several things at one time.
I bled air out of the coolant system at the front heater that s behind the yellow panel under the windshield. And you can also let air out close to the coolant filler cap.
I noticed the the belt tensioner for the big radiator fan belt had no spring action at all. I took it off, researched the part, found out it was a much less expensive after market part. But I wound up taking it apart. I cleaned up the coil spring(road grime), packed it w grease and reinstalled it. I was going to mention this to you when you mentioned the broken fan earlier. Interestingly, there is no nipple on the tensioner to hold it in place. You just have to “put it on real tight”[emoji3][emoji3]. I don’t know what the OEM part looks like but I can take a pic tomorrow of the aftermarket one if you want.

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by Meathead

Ok. I’m guy w same bus from Loudoun county. I drove 1000 miles home August 2019. Every time my temp got to approx 205* the fan would ROAR and within 20-25 seconds the temp would be back down to 185*.
This happened often. I hit rain in Mobile AL and thought “This is doing my motor good”. Nope, still did the 205-185 thing. My reservoir was also full.

First off your coolant is probably crap.
Second, your fan should ROAR at some point.

I’m not exactly sure what my problem was since I did several things at one time.
I bled air out of the coolant system at the front heater that s behind the yellow panel under the windshield. And you can also let air out close to the coolant filler cap.
I noticed the the belt tensioner for the big radiator fan belt had no spring action at all. I took it off, researched the part, found out it was a much less expensive after market part. But I wound up taking it apart. I cleaned up the coil spring(road grime), packed it w grease and reinstalled it. I was going to mention this to you when you mentioned the broken fan earlier. Interestingly, there is no nipple on the tensioner to hold it in place. You just have to “put it on real tight”[emoji3][emoji3]. I don’t know what the OEM part looks like but I can take a pic tomorrow of the aftermarket one if you want.

Did it stop getting up to 205 after you bled out the air?

Yeah I still got to do all the preventive maintenance, including the fluids. I was ready to start changing belts but found that I do not have a wrench large enough to release the fan tensioner, which appears to be a normal looking tensioner. The fan belt certainly feels nicely tensioned.

I did a nice long highway test drive after grinding more seats and at first the temperature got up to 205 again. Then I finally heard the fan engage. Not really loud, but I felt the load on the engine increase. After a couple times the temperature stabilized at about 185 and stayed fairly steady the rest of the time though I heard the fan cycling. Still really weird that this happens now and it didn't before in the almost 600 miles I've already put on the bus.

[Mr4btTahoe]

Hey bud...

Let me make a suggestion on the seats you are grinding out. Go get a thin cut-off wheel (.045 thick or so... thats what my 6" ones are). Don't "grind" the bolt head down... place the cutoff wheel at the base of the bolt head and cut it off.

I'm cutting out all of my seats and was able to pull 1/3 of them in 40 minutes this way.

It'll save you quite a bit of time. If using a 4" grinder, I'd get 5 or so wheels for it. I've got a 6" and haven't used 1 wheel yet.

Also, for your AC... look into a mini-split. You can get them for ~ half the price of the basement ac units and they are very efficient.

Anyways.. keep up the good work!

[cadillackid]

whered ya get the really nice seats? I need some of those!


as for the oil pressure.. the HEUI system at idle can run on 18... the HPOP doesnt require much.. ive seen a T-444E running at 5PSI at idle and didnt stall out,, in fact that partcular engine I know of runs at speed at about 22 PSI running 2300 RPM.. well below spec but that guy;'s bus just keeps running..

[Meathead]

Yeah, I think it’s odd that it the fan didn’t kick in for you’re first 600 miles, but hey, it’s working so you are winning!
Yes I did all of the usual little stuff. Tighten water pump belt, cleaned grass clippings from the radiator, and then let the air out. I’m thinking thats why my reservoir was full but I really need to add coolant. I learned on this forum that you should let the air out, drive some more, and do it again bcuz more air may collect a the highest point. The high point should be your heaters. After that I was running almost straight water and I haven’t heard the fan in the year I have been working on the bus. I’m the opposite of you. I heard the fan on the way home, but not since.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a mechanic. I’m just telling my story hoping it helps. I did change coolant since then.

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by Mr4btTahoe

Hey bud...

Let me make a suggestion on the seats you are grinding out. Go get a thin cut-off wheel (.045 thick or so... thats what my 6" ones are). Don't "grind" the bolt head down... place the cutoff wheel at the base of the bolt head and cut it off.

I'm cutting out all of my seats and was able to pull 1/3 of them in 40 minutes this way.

It'll save you quite a bit of time. If using a 4" grinder, I'd get 5 or so wheels for it. I've got a 6" and haven't used 1 wheel yet.

Also, for your AC... look into a mini-split. You can get them for ~ half the price of the basement ac units and they are very efficient.

Anyways.. keep up the good work!

Thank you. I checked the sizes of my discs and my dual purpose disc is 1/8" and my new disc is 1/4". One of the reasons I wanted to switch discs was because I kept stalling out the grinder trying to cut off the heads, which are slightly recessed. The 1/4" disc just eats the head of the bolt off when I attack it in the same manner, working pretty well for me. Little flexing and pop goes what's left.

We got through all the seats behind the emergency exit door today and now we can start using a 1/2" impact. At least until we get to the front axle, probably going to have to grind more then. Though I have to go back with a chisel and punch and drive the remains of the bolts out, they have remained suck in the holes.

Originally Posted by Meathead

Yeah, I think it’s odd that it the fan didn’t kick in for you’re first 600 miles, but hey, it’s working so you are winning!
Yes I did all of the usual little stuff. Tighten water pump belt, cleaned grass clippings from the radiator, and then let the air out. I’m thinking thats why my reservoir was full but I really need to add coolant. I learned on this forum that you should let the air out, drive some more, and do it again bcuz more air may collect a the highest point. The high point should be your heaters. After that I was running almost straight water and I haven’t heard the fan in the year I have been working on the bus. I’m the opposite of you. I heard the fan on the way home, but not since.
Disclaimer: I am NOT a mechanic. I’m just telling my story hoping it helps. I did change coolant since then.

Interesting, mechanic or not your story is valuable information to me. Perhaps now I can return the favor somewhat. Spoke to the General Manager at Sonny Merryman and he revealed he was a Loudoun County mechanic. He told me that they had a lot of issues with the fan setups in the their HDXs and MVPs and Loudoun County experimented with different modifications. There are now several different systems in use, several using parts not from Thomas. He also told me that 175 was too low and it was very odd it held that with ease without the fan. 185 to 205 is the correct operating range and 220 is when the ECM will throw overheat codes, and I'm sure the point you're already doing damage.

Speaking of modifications, my dash electrical panel has a triangle latch that Thomas doesn't sell either. It's chrome with a weather sealing ring. The keys I got from Sonny Merryman do not fit it. So this could be interesting...

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

whered ya get the really nice seats? I need some of those!


as for the oil pressure.. the HEUI system at idle can run on 18... the HPOP doesnt require much.. ive seen a T-444E running at 5PSI at idle and didnt stall out,, in fact that partcular engine I know of runs at speed at about 22 PSI running 2300 RPM.. well below spec but that guy;'s bus just keeps running..

Ack sorry I missed your question. I don't know if they're really that nice of a seat, but they are certainly better than school bus benches. I got them out of a 2011 International with a Kyrstal body, a charter bus with a cracked Maxxforce DT block. I could probably salvage more seats but most of them weren't in good condition or had engine parts sitting on them. Some of Starcraft transit buses I work on have those style seats too with solid blue striping.

And thank you for the information. Really surprising that engine runs that low.

[Truthseeker4449]

So we had a small accident while removing seats.



While piling seats at the back of the bus, a foolishly stacked seat slid into a window. Or so I was told as I was not there for this. Thankfully those that were present had become acquaintances with a fellow on YouTube who goes by Aging Wheels. He has a 2005 Thomas EF and has agreed to send us a couple windows. He doesn't need them as he's doing a car hauler conversion with a open deck. His don't have tinting but that shouldn't be an issue as I want to black out the back half of the bus.

In the mean time we have a sheet of plexiglass. The window that was broken is the third from the back on the left.



Only one seat remains as of this evening (the left seats in the below pictures came out shortly after my potato photography), and the crash barrier behind the driver seat. And a couple of brackets on the floor left there after someone took a hacksaw to some seat legs over the fuel tank. I don't think that was the most ideal way to handle that problem as I still have to grind them off without the benefit of using the seat for leverage but it's going to let us dump most of the seats at the dump this Tuesday.

On another note, it's pretty clear that this bus does not have plywood flooring. Should make pulling the floor covering fun. Might buy an oscillating multitool and see how well it works.

[Truthseeker4449]

Dropped off most of the seats at the dump save for the end barriers and the four seats we may make into a restaurant like booth. Scales said 21,640 in and 20,620 out. I had guessed it was going to be about 1,000 lbs but thought it would be much lighter once I started wrangling seats.

Taking the bus into the dump turned out to be somewhat sketchy as they instructed us to go to the "face" on the top of the heap and basically toss the seats out of the bus down the cliff of trash. It's so steep that we were worried about spinning out, and running off the edge on the way down.

In other news, I took advantage of a rare opportunity at work to plug in the best scan tool we got, a Texa Diesel Laptop.



That picture turned out at a funny angle, but the ECM did take the new speed limiter setting. Now I know our gearing is pretty high so I'm not surprised that at redline (2,600rpm) we're doing 65 mph. Also of note is the fan cycles a lot at 65mph, perhaps because we're riding the redline so the controller demands max cooling to be safe despite temperatures being very acceptable.

I'm very curious to see what'll happen once I get the TCM unlocked.

[Truthseeker4449]

I started on removing the floor covering material, I call it puke mat. Learn pretty quick that most of the screws on the floor are so full of dirt and junk that they strip out easily. So I started taking a small pick to all of the heads and cleaning them out. That got me out all but one screw on the passenger front wheelwell.



I was initially excited how easily the mat was coming off the wheelwell, but as soon as I got down to floor level the hand scrapers just weren't cutting it. I found it very hard to get it up where the crash barriers and seats were down. Probably need to get one of those multitools with a scraper attachment.



On the bright side I don't see any rust so far! I do however have a water leak on the passenger side that is appearing from behind what seems to be a conduit channel. I'll find out more once I get it opened up I guess.

[WIbluebird]

Wow, you're lucky there. On my Bluebird the puke mat is GLUED to a plywood subfloor. The base steel floor is under all that. I'm debating doing my floating floor + insulation over the top of that because it's going to be such a pain to remove.

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by WIbluebird

Wow, you're lucky there. On my Bluebird the puke mat is GLUED to a plywood subfloor. The base steel floor is under all that. I'm debating doing my floating floor + insulation over the top of that because it's going to be such a pain to remove.

I thought that was the easier floor to remove, heck I'm pretty sure I already have the ideal tool to cut it up in chunks. I would put a tile blade, unless there was a better blade available at home depot, on my Milwaukee 3" cutoff tool and set the depth to the plywood thickness. Cut into squares and remove with a prybar.

This on the floor the matting is not easy to remove with hand scrapers, the second picture was like a half hour of work and I still have like 35 feet of bus to go with less favorable angles. I got to stand in the stairwell for this part so far.

[Truthseeker4449]

Trying to get the pukemat up is taking quite a toll. I've been through 5 "heavy duty scraper chisels" and the guy at Home Depot got tired of warranting them (rather angry too) so allowed me to have an steel floor scraper instead of another plastic handled one. So far it's holding up better but the other scrapers were much sharper and worked better even if they broke every few hours. I think the edge is dulling too, or perhaps the glue is still strong as we get further back in the bus.

My phone sucks in poor lighting conditions, even with the dome lights on so no pictures for now. But we have the passenger side ripped up to the 6th window from the rear and the aisle almost completely up. Rust is minimal so far, so far some surface rust near the access plate in the aisle. It gets a little heavy at the front of the aisle at the top of the stairs so while I was kinda hoping I didn't need to rip that all up it looks like I have no choice. Otherwise she's clean.

I'm hoping with a couple more good days of taking turns around the scraper will get the rest of the floor up. Maybe finally cave and buy a multitool too. And more powerful batteries.

[JDSquared]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker4449

I'm hoping with a couple more good days of taking turns around the scraper will get the rest of the floor up. Maybe finally cave and buy a multitool too. And more powerful batteries.

Heat. Get one of those yellow shop lights with the halogen bulb and set it on the floor for a few minutes. It will peel right up. Then move forward ten feet and do it again.
I've seen this in several you tube builds. Gilligan Phantom is one in particular. Mine was attached to the plywood and it all came out together.

[Truthseeker4449]

Originally Posted by JDSquared

Heat. Get one of those yellow shop lights with the halogen bulb and set it on the floor for a few minutes. It will peel right up. Then move forward ten feet and do it again.
I've seen this in several you tube builds. Gilligan Phantom is one in particular. Mine was attached to the plywood and it all came out together.

I figured heat would probably help, but I've got a complication. Atm I don't have access to power. I mainly work on the bus on the side of a commercial street that I usually park the bus on or in a parking lot, too far away for extension cords. I do not yet have an inventor or a generator. Though it did just occur on me I could probably rent a generator somewhere and we do have a really powerful heat gun we could use.

Too bad Milwaukee's cordless heat gun sucks, I use one at work. The heat output just isn't there and it sucks a battery every 5 minutes. I consider it barely adequate for heat shrink.

On another note, definitely got a sizable water leak from the forward roof hatch and it seems to be both the gasket in the hatch itself and the sealant. Might have to get another hatch...


Progress upon starting this afternoon. There's a little surface rust around the access plate in the floor most likely because of the leaky roof hatch. Aside from that and the following pictures, there's no other rust thus far.


This is the part by the top of the stairs. I didn't know why it's all bent up, I don't recall there being a bump in the floor there. Still I think this is good cause to dismantle the driver's area now as much as I didn't really want to.


This is the PF wheel well, the only one to be uncovered so far. This the part I'm a little worried about.

[Native]

That wheel well is not too bad. There does not appear to be any rust through holes. You may want to take a hammer and chisel and see just how strong the metal is. I think you have little to no loss of metal.

[Mountain Gnome]

Replace the hatch with a skylight. Whether that is a boat hatch, something you make, or just a sheet of Lexan, the skylight made all the difference inside of my bus. When you park overnight at the Flying-J and have all the windows covered, the skylight makes it fully lit up and cheery inside during the day, or park under an overhead parking-lot-light at night.

[o1marc]

Skylight and Maxxfan in the rear, skylight in the front hatch and a 14" skylight where the passive vent was. That skylight was the piece cut out for the vent fan.