the DEV RANDOM

[joeblack5]

Man that sucks, is this the bus that did 80 mph? Do you have a gauge that you can tell that you have line pressure?
Did you do any other checks to find out what went wrong. I thought that with stuff wearing you first would have some flare and slipping before it completely craps out.



Later J

[brokedown]

The RedByrd is the racing bus after getting a transmission upgrade. The MT643 has the same 4th gear ratio so top speed should only change by what the converter is eating now. Probably only a couple extra MPH but also delivering substantially more power to the wheels on the highway.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

so I blew up the Allison 545 transmission on sunday.. i was on the freeway entrance ramp and Bam. as it went to shift from 3 to 4. it went 3 to N. never to see 4,3,2,1, or R again..



not sure what broke.. the line pressure still pumps up so the pump is good. but no gears engage. so my guess is C1is gone.. luckily the DTA-360 has a nice rev. limiter so the engine never over revved or anything bad like that...


so the decision has been made to UPGRADE.. no not like the Redbyrd last year but it will go from an AT545 to an MT-643. this is a mechanical bus and I want it to stay all mechanical as opposed to computerizing it.. so it will get a reman MT-643.


I hung out and wrote code with the A/C maxxed. on the 95 degree day while waiting for Rusty's Towing to show up..


Attachment 23493


Rusty's Towing is who you call if you are in central Ohio and need a big hook.. they are super guys, local owned and have a great reputation on the business.. luckily I was only 5 miles from home and it was sunny and warm..



Attachment 23494


Attachment 23495




so time to get the Dodge ready for a road trip to get a new trans.. I found an LKQ truck yard selling Reman Navistar OEM 2600 RPM MT-643s with the torque converter for a good price.. they will ship but its pricey and I like a road trip.. so off to missouri i go next week!.


if anyone wants one here they are.. they are designed for the DTA-series engines and are Remanufactured units.



https://www.lkqheavytruck.com/search...1&searchpage=3


-Christopher

Wait a week or two and I may have a FREE transmission for you. Complete.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by brokedown

The RedByrd is the racing bus after getting a transmission upgrade. The MT643 has the same 4th gear ratio so top speed should only change by what the converter is eating now. Probably only a couple extra MPH but also delivering substantially more power to the wheels on the highway.

Running cooler is the biggest benefit. The engine will live longer with a 643 vs a 545.

[cowlitzcoach]

What a bummer!

What I find odd is how poorly the AT540 works when put out on the road.

Back in the day we ran a LOT of buses with the AT540, both gas and diesel. We had ten 1990 BB TC2000 buses with 190HP Cummins 6BT's. They had to go back to the dealer within days of being put into service due to the fact the transmission coolers were totally inadequate for the service they were doing. Any hill and the transmission really heated up quickly. But once an additional cooler was added we never had problems with them. The additional cooler was almost as large in area as the radiator.

In all the miles we put them through I can't remember any of them failing for any reason. We even put those buses out on trips with distances in excess of 50 miles at highway speeds.

The prices quoted by LKQ are amazing!

I was pricing the cost of a 4L80E for my Suburban and installed price was in excess of $3K.

I hope you won't have to have your driveline shortened to fit the longer MT643. Too bad they don't have any with a retarder. That would be really outstanding!

Good luck!

[cadillackid]

UPGRADE! is right... thats what happened last year to the Redbyrd.. but that one did die slowly.. gave me warning that it was having issues.. something definitely snapped in this one.. I was on a ramp with my foot buried and it hit the top of 3rd gear and made a 'bump-bum-bum' sound and that was it.. Neutral so I Busted something internally.. the fluid looks pretty yucky so it was dying..



pressure - I pulled the reverse lights pressure switch out and screwed a gauge in.. when I go to reverse pressure jumps right up so its got good pressure just doesnt engage.. if you put it in D or R when the revs are up you can sort of hear a "slight" 'bump' sound like engagement.. so my guess is a clutch pack on C1 broke.. this one is engaged in most every gear on the 545 so if you cant hold in C1 then you'll never get the bus up to a speed where another gear can pull in.. I have to look at the schematic again.. but I like to think 3rd is the only gear that doesnt use C1.





those 643's at LKQ - this guy got a whole Bunch of them from a major navistar dealer in the area.. apparently Navistar has officially obsoleted the ReMan MT-643 from their parts counter.. so they dumped the whole lot.. this guy priced them to sell so he didnt have to sit on em forever.. so if anyone wants a Remanufactured 643 for a 2600 RPM engine at a good price these are it.. they arent used and had a full OEM spec reman.. thats why the Navistar part number on them. the price is just too good to mess with a used trans or an AT545.. I do run this bus on road trips some and will likely be running it for some new wireless testing and such im working on so it will be back to being used for DEV purposes again which takes it out on the highway.. so the 643 is a must.. funny thing is I was going to drive that bus to Hershey PA for the big bus rally a couple weeks ago.. I wouldve got off the plane from boston, hopped in and took off.. instead I got stuck in boston and had to stay an extra week... so I was just driving it around town all week so I mightve been 200 miles away from home when it bit the dust..



the energy works in mysterious ways sometimes..


Cowlitz I'll have to shorten the front driveshaft which is pretty routine.. I have a great driveshaft shop I use..(been using them since I built hotrods).. ill also have them put new U-joints and carrier bearing on then balance the whole assembly.


-Christopher

[joeblack5]

Thanks Chris, very clever deduction, would you be able to see debri from the clutch pack in the oil?
what about a failed / stuck actuator valve for c1 so that it does not engage? Just seems strange that something fairly substantial would have a catastrophic failure in a split second.



Later J

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

Thanks Chris, very clever deduction, would you be able to see debri from the clutch pack in the oil?
what about a failed / stuck actuator valve for c1 so that it does not engage? Just seems strange that something fairly substantial would have a catastrophic failure in a split second.



Later J

its possible for debris or such to stick in an actuator / servo. however if I got enough debris in there to cause to fail all at once with a buck and a bump id be concerned about what it was thats large enough to block an apply piston under pressure or a valve thats allowing fluid through.. and how it got there through 2 filters.. the way the fluid looks some serious wear is going on.. Ill probably never see whats in the pan unless i get curious as the likely thing is for me to just open the drain plug, drain it down, replace the plug, drop it and scrap it. I got confirmation back that my MT-643 is held for me so the next thing to do is to gas up the trusty 'Ole ram 1500 HEMI (OK nearly brand new ram 1500.. is a year old but only 3000 miles).. and head west.. I love summer time road trips with the windows down and the A/C blasting so should be a fun trip!
-Christopher

[Tango]

A 643!? Aw c'mon Cadillac...spring for a brand new 5th Gen with 6 gears and really rock & roll!

[Kubla]

643 is bulletproof, simple and no stupid TCU to fight with, only thing he has to worry about is which of the 3 torque converters he is getting with it


I, on the other hand, with my at545 to 2000 switch will need his help with my wiring harness and TCU

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Tango

A 643!? Aw c'mon Cadillac...spring for a brand new 5th Gen with 6 gears and really rock & roll!

I really Love my 1000 in the red bus.. and when i was running purely throttle it worked pretty decent.. but when I integrated it to the rest of the parameters of the electronic engine it works even better.. and is almost intuitive in predicting when and when not to shift... I would have only the throttle with it on the DEV.. besides I like the fact DEV is all mechanical.. old school!!.


Kubla these 643;'s are designed for the 2600 RPM DT series engines.. the included converter is matched for those engines.. the DTA360 has a little less low end torque than a DT466. well for now.. with a real tranny I can turn up the screws on that DTA360 without worry!!



-Christopher

[cadillackid]

Ha! So here I am again doing what I love, electronics.. this time hacking the communications protocol for my 16kw diesel coolant heater, my aim is to control and read the heater either directly with the onboard mikrotik router or through the raspberry pi. My Saleae logic analyzer I bought like 12 year’s ago for hacking minisplits is by far and above the best tool I’ve used for ripping apart comm lines. So far the Chinese don’t dissapoint in being rather archaic as this heater appears to talk in 5 volt 9600 baud 8N1 plain old rs232 serial ..

I’ve already decoded the setpoint, water temp, and exhaust temp

Now I’m working on decoding the controller send side to see if I can throttle the heater into more than just off or full blast.

[Bus'n it]

I'm Greek, yet the above post sounds like Greek to me

If I attempt to do what you're doing, My success rate would be limited to an overnight fire in my sleep!!

[cowlitzcoach]

I am sure you know what you are doing and what you said but I don't speak geek so I have no idea as to what you said.

It sounds good and it sounds as if you are trying to make your fuel fired heater more user friendly.

I hope it all works out for you and you don't make things worse.

[magnakansas]

Is there some way to preheat the fuel coming into the burner? Seems like a big part of the problem is the fuel is too cold to light off well. I also wonder if there is a way to use the exhaust heat from the burner to preheat fuel after the burner is lit. use inline electric heater to get the process going and exhaust heated fuel after the burner is lit. If you are using micro controller anyways, it seems, for your skill level, incorporating these ideas, would not be difficult.

How does webasto deal with the cold fuel light off problem? Any insights to gained there?

william

[cadillackid]

webasto starts the heater off slowly.. and they leave it in slow-motion until the burn chamber warms up.. VVKB claims to make a heated fuel filter.. I first rallied them to tell me where i could buy such a device.. seems like it would help the fuel atomize as you mention.. but they claim it wasnt something they keep (then why its on their interweb).. bsck to webasto.. my real webasto starts. wit ha real slow pulsing of the fuel pump and a slow run of the air inducer motor.. the glowplug of course is turned on first and allowed to stay on the whole time it is igniting. the real webasto keeps going in this slow mode for a bit of time. (much longer on colder days).. and then im guessing once it senses the exhaust temperature is up to a certain point begins to go ahead and ramp up to full speed..



the VVKB unit (and the subsequent chinese unit thats in there now).. both just operate ramp up based on a timer.. none ofthe temperatiure sensors seem to make a difference.. it does wait to detect a light-up. which judging from the installed sensors is that there is any rise in exhaust temperature above ambient.. and it ramps up rather quickly.. a flame out is detected by cooling exhaust or no longer warming.. and it takes a bit of time so fuel is being dumped in until it realizes the fire is out or not hot enough to do anything..



of course the issue is that the amount of air and fuel input into the chamber is for a pretty solid burn.. measuring the combustion of a correctly running heater with my Testo combustion analyzer results in a nice low CO level, a good O2 ratio and pretty good emissions.. when running correctly these things burn Hot and typically with no smoke exceopt for a small puff on startup..



so if you have a couple flame-out episodes where fuel has just been dumped into the chamber.. that unburned diesel tends to just sit there.. unlike gasoline it isnt near as volatile so it doesnt evaporate.. when you get a new Light-up. as the chamber starts to heat.. that unburned fuel will flash over and create a mega-smount of smoke.. and sometimes even put the whole thing out again as there isnt enough air to sustain combustion with all of that fuel burning..



obviously the chinese and all their engineers havent figured out the correct pattern for super cold weather..



I do believe magnakansas is onto the right idea though that the fuel is much tougher to atomize when its very cold out. maybe i need to put a couple glowplugs in the air intake that I start up with the heater so it at least gets warm air for combustion air..

[magnakansas]

Can you do anything with the air intake heater off of a dodge cummins truck? I think they are pulling around 80 amps while active..... Do you think you have enough battery to handle the load? Just another idea.

william

[Booyah45828]

Maybe use an air intake heater off a 7.3 powerstroke. It's round and a little more compact then the cummins grid heater, I believe it also takes less amperage, and can be had for free from someone removing it from their truck for "horsepowers". However, I don't like the idea of having to use a 50+ amp device to get the heater to work. It should work without going to that. I'd use a 60g glowplug in the intake before any of the grid heaters, or I'd swap out the current glow plug for something that heats hotter.

I think you're on the right track looking at it's startup procedure. Maybe a mimic of the webasto cycle with your own custom controller might be the ticket.

I'm sure you'll figure it out.

[joeblack5]

My webasto TSL17 5KW coolant heater does have a ceramic sponge that function as a kind of wick. The pulsed pump feeds the sponge. the glowplug is integrated in he sponge.


I messed one up by feeding it wvo,.. does not work.. because the sponge gets clogged .


Took that webasto apart but the sponge is part of a burner assembly.. China sells the sponge only so i cut the burner assembly apart and welded SS nut to it so that it is now serviceable..


Wonder if you can feed the webasto some cleaning fuel to purge the sponge before you have problems?



I also had a scholastic that worked with a nozzle, high pressure pump and spark ignition.. I think more reliable but noisy and used a lot of electricity.


So webasto it is for my applications.


It would be cool to take wvk apart and see how their ignition / combustion process works.


Johan

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by joeblack5

My webasto TSL17 5KW coolant heater does have a ceramic sponge that function as a kind of wick. The pulsed pump feeds the sponge. the glowplug is integrated in he sponge.


I messed one up by feeding it wvo,.. does not work.. because the sponge gets clogged .


Took that webasto apart but the sponge is part of a burner assembly.. China sells the sponge only so i cut the burner assembly apart and welded SS nut to it so that it is now serviceable..


Wonder if you can feed the webasto some cleaning fuel to purge the sponge before you have problems?



I also had a scholastic that worked with a nozzle, high pressure pump and spark ignition.. I think more reliable but noisy and used a lot of electricity.


So webasto it is for my applications.


It would be cool to take wvk apart and see how their ignition / combustion process works.


Johan

ive had it apart and the VVKB works like a loit of the chinese air heaters.. the glowplug fits into a cylindrical burn chamber.. the plug is surrounded by a mesh screen that is barely larger than the glowplug.. the clicker dosing pump is designed to provide a single drop of fuel at each dose through the fuel line.. there is a small air hole where the fan suclks part of the combustion air directly next to the fuel port. the idea being that the fuel will drip onto the mesh and the glowplug lights it off..



VVKB first thought my nozzle was clogged or my screen was carboned up or glowplug ruined.. when I took my heater apart to replace these parts nothing was black, everything was clean as once it would get burning it heats up hot and does burn cleanly..



noting how this works its easy to see how excess fuel that doesnt burn just drips down into the bottom of the burn chamber.. enough of it and diese lwill actually leak out onto the ground..



its interesting webasto has the ceramic.. my real webasto in the red bus is a TSL-17 ..I bought that heater way back in 2016 and finally installed it in the red bus in 2019.. maybne i need to take that apart and see if I can modify a chinese heater / VVKB to work like it.



wonder if i used some of that spongy meshy stuff thats used in gas log fireplaces to make it look like there are embers.. surround the glowplug mesh screen with just a little of thise to help spread the flame or at least hold the fuel to burn off rather than drip into the bottom of the burn chamber where it just smokes..



as far as using a 7.3 or cummins grid heater I thyink it woul;d be overkill considering the heater intake pipe is 1 1/4" I think on these larger units..


I have plenty of batteries to run this.. buitthe Bus engine itself has no glowplugs or intake heater (the DTA360 was designed this way as were the mechanical DT466's).. I have started the bus with no starting aids down to 0f but its really hard on the starter (it makes for great youtube cold start videos) as it smokes and "I think-I-Can" away..



the idea of the coolant heater of course is that it can be started up 30 minutes or an hour before the bus.. with the heater loops open it will warm up the engine and the bus heater loops.. slowly enough as to not shock the metal of the engine... but also quick enough that when im stayinmg in a hotel. I start the heater. and by the time i get showered, packed up and ready to go the bus is ready to start and get hot heaters fairly quickly...



and when the heater lights up it does a wonderful job at precisely that job.. as well as keeping me warm while parked working..



I have 2@100ah. house batteries. and 2@100ah starting batteries. through an isolater, all AGMs.. so if I need it i have 400ah of batteries for my use..



this past winter even working nearly all day with the bus parked and VVKB going and a couple bus heaters on i never even got below 50% on my house batteries..