the codes are for the D&E, I never goit that far with the VVKB .. I do lkike the 16kw better. . I think it will have a better chance at heating up the inside even in real cold weather..
the old crippled VVKB.. it does still work so i think I'll allocate it as a Garage heater for the winter.. it will be much better than the unvented propane salamander I been using. that thing is a PITA to store with its tank.. I can mount the old VVKB on a shelf and vent it out the sidewall of the garage.. I'll use a bus heater or two as the heat exchangers.. i already have expansion tanks and a 12 volt Bench power supply that pushes up to 50 amps.. I do have the brand new VVKB in a box they sent me as a replacement that I never used..
I got my D&E unit from alibaba, I can look up the specifics from my order if you are interested. so far it has worked ghood but of course i installed it late in the season so it hasnt been placed under hard use yet
exhaust manifold gasket installed.. wow she sure runs nice!! ill finish drivi9ng it this evening then ill park it and i'll go over and re-torque the bolts in the AM when the engine is cold overnight. hopefully the bolts will stay put.. its definitelty noticeable in power and less black smoke.. so im guessing my MPG will go back up a bit too.. (although running 2 A/C's doesnt help MPG.. but when its 96 with a heat index of 103 having it be 68 in the driver seat is well worth lower MPG).
What about some sort of lock tabs like stage 8 ? Also, Ford uses these funky bolts that are triangular… the tips of the triangle are interference fit, I think. Bet arp or stage 8 has an off the shelf fix. Then there is always safety wire, but is always a pain ….
William
ARP didnt have anything other than a stud kit but clearances around the turbo are an issue with studs..
Stage8 totally forgot about them!! ill have to measure but im pretty sure the bolts are just standard 1/2 x 13 , question is whether they have a lock tab to fit in the manifold.. I really dont want to use safety wire.. that stuff stinks
the codes are for the D&E, ... I do have the brand new VVKB in a box they sent me as a replacement that I never used..
Drop me a note if it's over 10kW and you want some money for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
I got my D&E unit from alibaba, I can look up the specifics from my order if you are interested. so far it has worked ghood but of course i installed it late in the season so it hasnt been placed under hard use yet
Yeppers I have a 16kw unit. My set came with everything needed to install. The mounting plate, intake pipe, water pump, wire harness, digital controller, switch, fuel pump fuel line, dip tube for existing tank , since my bus is a shortie I didn’t have to lengthen the wires they just fit.
The big thing to do is make sure you pipe it in such a way you never ever ever run it out of water or let it suck air. The heat exchangers in these things are incredibly small physically for the heat they make. The fire is extremely hot and the shutdown process is not instant so if it starts sucking air it can and will boil the hell out of the coolant and build pressure extremely quick ..
The shutdown of the fuel is progressive even if you go over temp ,they attempt to stop pretty quick but it takes a few seconds. To shut the fuel off and the metal fins and chamber temp are still quite high so it keeps trying to heat the water.. so it’s imperative to make sure water flows at all times. I have 2 pumps on mine. Previously I had a separate expansion tank but someone mentioned closing only one of my bus heater valves when my engine is off. Might’ve been magmakansas. Which allows for expansion and contraction of coolant when I want to cabin heat only (and not heat the engine). So that will be my setup this winter to try.
The D&E heater has a thermostat which is nice so you can set the max coolant temp. I use a Davies Craig pump set up instead of the one that came with it. Those Davies pumps move plenty of coolant and pull less than 1/3 the power. I easily have enough house batteries to leave my heater set for say 35 or 40c parked all night circulating through engine and some cabin heaters. This keep Mg my dt360 warm if. I can’t lol if it in. Ie at a hotel and it’s minus 10f (no glow plugs in that engine)
I got my D&E unit from alibaba, I can look up the specifics from my order if you are interested. so far it has worked ghood but of course i installed it late in the season so it hasnt been placed under hard use yet
Hi Christopher,
Turns out that getting info out of these guys is harder than I thought... So yes I'd really appreciate the details of your D&E heater order. Thanks!
I hope this link works.. this is the general alibaba page for the heater Line.. my specification was then a 16-12v which meant 16kw at 12 volts DC. they make these in 24 volt as well if you are running them off your solar or such or in a coach.
so far ive been happy with this one though I havent yet gone through the Brunt of a winter with it yet wherre it needs to start up when its minus-10f outside and such. but for the end of this past winter and cool spring mornings it worked great.
I mounted it on rubber isolation standoffs as the coolant heaters arent the quietest things in the world if you mounted them on your bus frame. I didnt have room under the hood with my extra fuel filter / water separator and dual A/C compressors..
you click on buy samples to buy one.. or you can send inquiry t otalk to them. my guess is that they are extremely busy right now for chatting as during the late winter they were switching their production from heater to A/C units and she said they were really slammed.. so my guess is its all heaters all the time right now..
my order page looked like this.. of course the price is a little different now but not a whole bunch.
one does the job esp if your system is all series.. 2 for me works best since im running a Biased parallel flow system..
pretty soon ill get back into Hacking its computer some more.. D&E flat out wouldnt give me any info on the protocol.. many companies havent grasped the idea that if someone builds a peripheral device that interfaces with yours and that peripheral device gains popularity then you sell more product...
The link worked. I did have an email exchange ongoing with that specific company it turns out (deshiye.com), so I replied to that. I sent them a hopefully clear email with specs, like so:
Code:
We are looking for capacities between 10 and 25kW. Our requirements:
- self contained (we provide power and diesel, the rest happens automatically)
- peak current draw <200W
- 12V or 24V
- cold start capability -25C
- automatic start/stop based on coolant "thermostat" setting
- complete system (controller included)
- display that shows coolant temperature
- documented interface available for integration into bus electronics (TTL, CAN or RS485)
- emergency shutdown possible (e.g. in case of coolant loss)
- water connection 12, 15 or 18mm
- muffler, exhaust piping included
- fuel pump, fuel screen filter, and standpipe, 5m of fuel line included
- basic tubing, plumbing, pump, etc. included
- basic brackets, cabling etc. included
- instructions in English for installation and configuration
I think that should give at least one perfect hit - the one you bought from them! I asked for the -25C/-10F cold start capability, a shutdown line and an interface spec., and although unlikely, perhaps they just give that information to make a sale....
This way I can use different sources of heat at different levels, and control it accordingly. E.g. switch on the the engine loop only when the engine is over 170F (or whatever). And I probably don't want to run 170F water directly into the floor heating, so I can dissipate the heat elsewhere first.
thats a Bad-ass heating plan! so essentially you have a pump for each unit..
you could do a Mixing valve for the floor heating to temper it.. depending on how much temp drop you allow you could mix it with main manifold return water.. if the return water is too hot then 4 way mixing wont work.. next option is water injection using a variable speed pump.. where essentially you inject a slow stream or pulses of water into the already-circulating closed-loop floor... it circulates against itself.. ..
did that screen shot you sent me come from D&E? I noticed a line in there "documented Interface".. thats the part they refused to send me.. claiming it didnt exist.. now I need to hit them up again if thats the case.. with injection loops its important to eastablish some sort of minimum flow.. these little heater pumps should never completely dead-head nor should they ever run dry.. from what I can tell they expect a certain amount of antifreeze coolant to lubricate the impeller bushings.. so plain water also seems like a no-no (which you wouldnt do anyway for heat)..
somewhereinusa has a pretty slick system that is close to what you have designed. I'd read his thread for sure, and address any questions that you have to him. He'll be able to guide you as to the do's and dont's.
I think I'd have the central tank under pressure though, as kettling in a water heater is dangerous, and is more likely to happen if it's not under pressure.
These diesel heaters will seriously kettle if something goes wrong and everything shuts down water flow-wise. In a normal bus coolant system you have plenty of room for expansion and built in pressure release but if you go closed loop you need to account for that either by leaving a pathway for relief back to the bus cooling system or install your own. The pressure in a cooling system is much lower than a domestic home water system but you do have the added benefit of the coolant but at low pressure it still boils pretty easy.
thats a Bad-ass heating plan! so essentially you have a pump for each unit..
you could do a Mixing valve for the floor heating to temper it.. depending on how much temp drop you allow you could mix it with main manifold return water.. if the return water is too hot then 4 way mixing wont work.. next option is water injection using a variable speed pump.. where essentially you inject a slow stream or pulses of water into the already-circulating closed-loop floor... it circulates against itself.. ..
Exactly. That way I can modulate the temperature purely with on/off controls of the pumps. The time constant is so slow that on/off every few seconds is essentially fully analog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid
did that screen shot you sent me come from D&E? I noticed a line in there "documented Interface".. thats the part they refused to send me.. claiming it didnt exist.. now I need to hit them up again if thats the case..
That was from my "requirement" list. They didn't respond to that
Quote:
with injection loops its important to eastablish some sort of minimum flow.. these little heater pumps should never completely dead-head nor should they ever run dry.. from what I can tell they expect a certain amount of antifreeze coolant to lubricate the impeller bushings.. so plain water also seems like a no-no (which you wouldnt do anyway for heat)..
OH! got it.. i thought there was hope they would send the data spec.. LOL she told me (jessica) that it is "business" and cannot be sent to me.. .. the pic that they sent you doesnt look like its for the 16kw.. the body is longer on mine than that one.. that looks like 5 or 12kw unit.. I also got the manual for the controller unit.. (the comms between this is what ive been hacking on my own. its TTL and pretty easy).. my harness also came with an on / off switch that activates the heater if I dont use the protocol or if I dont have the digital controller connected. . switch also works if I dont turn the heater on or off with the digital knob.
somewhereinusa has a pretty slick system that is close to what you have designed. I'd read his thread for sure, and address any questions that you have to him. He'll be able to guide you as to the do's and dont's.
I think I'd have the central tank under pressure though, as kettling in a water heater is dangerous, and is more likely to happen if it's not under pressure.
I considered it, but I figured if reliability matters, it is not trivial to implement in practice. Not because it is complicated, but because I have so many connections (pumps/valves/joints/fittings) and therefore points of failure. At atmospheric pressure the risk for leaks is much smaller than even at 10 PSI, and if google is correct, automotive coolant systems run between 10 and 15 PSI. If I pressurize the system to 10 PSI, it increases the boiling point from 222 degrees F to 252 degrees F.
If I run up against a kettling problem, I could increase the flow rate, and/or increase the glycol concentration.
I have essentially three options. Let me sketch it out real quick. Sorry, it looks like I just found my crayons.
1. which I really don't want to do, also because then I need to run EVERYTHING (including the PEX, the water heater, ...) at engine pressure, which may be 15 PSI or who knows how much.
2. a split high/low pressure system, with the diesel heater at the pressurized side, and a massive heat exchanger to get the heat into the cabin. Needs valves in the engine circuit to isolate the massive heatsink that is the engine block itself when I don't need to heat it.
3. a split high/low pressure system, with the diesel heater at the unpressurized side. Heat can be pumped into the engine through a "reasonably sized" heat exchanger. If it's stone cold outside, it takes longer to heat the engine, but the living space is always getting maximum capacity. Under option 3, the only thing I need to control, is a bunch of 12V pumps on the low pressure side, and no valves. Maybe a pump between the engine itself and the high pressure side of the heat exchanger.
Okay, I have a fourth option, and that is to have a split high pressure-high pressure system. It comes with all the downsides of option 1. And I really don't want to run my heating system at pressure if I can avoid it.
OH! got it.. i thought there was hope they would send the data spec.. LOL she told me (jessica) that it is "business" and cannot be sent to me.. .. the pic that they sent you doesnt look like its for the 16kw.. the body is longer on mine than that one.. that looks like 5 or 12kw unit.. I also got the manual for the controller unit.. (the comms between this is what ive been hacking on my own. its TTL and pretty easy).. my harness also came with an on / off switch that activates the heater if I dont use the protocol or if I dont have the digital controller connected. . switch also works if I dont turn the heater on or off with the digital knob.
Great, thanks for this one! There's useful info in it, the funny language notwithstanding. I definitely need to hack around it, because sometimes the heater needs to run for extended periods to prevent things from freezing.
somewhereinusa has a pretty slick system that is close to what you have designed. I'd read his thread for sure, and address any questions that you have to him. He'll be able to guide you as to the do's and dont's.
I think I'd have the central tank under pressure though, as kettling in a water heater is dangerous, and is more likely to happen if it's not under pressure.
Yeah, this is great. He even has a schematic online!
Oh, by the way, I got 5-6 seemingly useful quotes on Alibaba.
These big black things have always appealed me, I guess that they have a much larger coolant reservoir reducing the risk for boil-away conditions. But I don't know, I've never seen one of those in real life.
It seems they come without user interfaces, mufflers or ducting.
Linear Mode
