Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-09-2013, 09:18 PM   #561
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,939
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Wood burning stoves can also burn coal. Coal burns far hotter, longer, and cost $50 to $100 a ton across north America. We use it here at the farm, and now it comes in tarp like totes that fit on a pallet.

Just for fun, lets run some numbers. Coal has 30, million BTU per short ton (2000 pounds). Average cost $70 per ton.

A cord of seasoned birch firewood (best wood in my region) has 26 million BTU. Birch Firewood is $400 a cord in this region.

A cord of seasoned aspen firewood has 16 million BTU. Aspen Firewood cost $200 a ton.

A ton of Diesel has 29 million BTU and contains 241 US gallons. A gallon of Diesel here cost $5. $5 x 241 gallons = $1205

Electricity is a bit more complicated to figure. However, per 30 million BTU, the cost is $1260 at 0.14 cents a kwh

Long story short, I will be building a trailer for use when I'm parked and not on the move. It will contain a modern coal boiler, and a 5,000 gal water tank. Best part is a well insulated bus here will only need 35,000 BTU per hour in -40 C. The boiler I will be getting will push 100,000 BTU per hour. That means I will be able to heat 3 or 4 more skoolies or other buildings that have hot water heating.

If you were to do a wood/coal stove, I would keep it so it can be removed and stored in the belly storage. That way if you need it, it can be put into use. If not, it's not taking up a ton of usable room in the main bus.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 06:01 AM   #562
Site Team
 
bansil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: MNT CITY TN
Posts: 5,002
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmkbailey


Starting to look like the space shuttle in here.
Post a video of you doing the "Moon Walk"


great job, you could mount some Grow lights and charge for sun tanning
__________________
Our build La Tortuga
Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.
George S. Patton
bansil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 07:35 AM   #563
Bus Crazy
 
somewhereinusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 1,585
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Her, me and Molly
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Quote:
Wood burning stoves can also burn coal.
You might want to check this out further, but I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Since coal burns so much hotter, most wood burning stoves can't take the heat. It is my understanding that unless it specifically says so you shouldn't use a wood burner with coal. I wouldn't want anyone to find out the hard way.
somewhereinusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 09:20 AM   #564
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,939
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Your right about that, but...

You will never be able to tolerate a coal fire hot enough to damage your stove in a bus. The only thing that happens from burning coal in a wood burner that's not made for it ( excluding gasifiers) is it can warp the stove. Use common sense, and don't burn coal in tin can stoves.

What we did to make our stove last, was remove all the crumbling fire brick, and replace it with 1.25 inch thick steel plate. Same for the top baffle inside of the stove. This is a low buck solution.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 11:15 AM   #565
Skoolie
 
Locutus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 227
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Crown
Chassis: Super Coach II, 36 Ft. RE
Engine: Cat 3208T, MT643
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhereinusa
Quote:
Wood burning stoves can also burn coal.
You might want to check this out further, but I'm pretty sure it's the other way around. Since coal burns so much hotter, most wood burning stoves can't take the heat. It is my understanding that unless it specifically says so you shouldn't use a wood burner with coal. I wouldn't want anyone to find out the hard way.
Agree.
I was looking into getting a Little Cod wood stove for my bus and asked the company about burning coal in it. Their response:
"Coal requires thick linings & a shaker grate which the COD does not have."
I asked about a retrofit and they said a DIY project is available. But these are quite expensive woodstoves and I wouldn't want to risk damaging mine. I was interested in coal because I thought it might provide heat through the night versus the 5 hour burn time of wood in these stoves. The company recommended North Idaho Energy Logs for increased burn time (similar to presto logs).

Links:
http://www.marinestove.com/codinfo.htm
http://www.northidahoenergylogs.com/
__________________
Locutus
(Latin) loquor loqui locutus dep. [to speak (in conversation); to tell , say, declare, talk of].

Children drink kOOlaid, adults drink T.E.A.


Gallery: http://www.skoolie.net/gallery/v/Skooli ... +Coach+II/
Locutus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 01:18 PM   #566
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland / Boulder
Posts: 342
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas Built
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner MVP ER
Engine: CAT 3126b Rotella-Chugger
Rated Cap: 72
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Looking great! I can't wait until I get my next paycheck so I can start insulating too. Can I have your scraps?

I was looking into doing a wood stove for a while too. This is when I was looking at other model buses that didn't come with the diesel fueled furnace Webasto deal. You really wouldn't need a big stove at all. But as wmkbailey said, wood or coal is not the best for someone who travels place to place a lot, because both are bulky-ish and not as easy to acquire as diesel. Also, having a chimney sticking out while driving doesn't look too classy Since I am using mine for travel almost entirely at first, diesel makes more sense and wmkbailey has the same heater as I do. However, these are not the best for long-term stationary living situations. For one, I don't know if they are continuous duty rated. They are very VERY expensive to repair (ask me how I know) and you have to move the bus ~once a week to fill up the tank (60 gal in these) to keep it going, or find someone with one of those truck bed mounted diesel tank things.

I have no experience with coal, but I know I don't like the smell, personally. Though that is one way to make your bus "roll coal," these CAT engines burn really clean.

nat, thank you for breaking out those price comparisons! That is very interesting to look at. I know reality is not as clear-cut as that but it is a good way to think about it.

How wide are the scores in the insulation / what did you score it with? I am planning on using the same stuff. Are you going to put up any additional vapour barrier or is the foil good enough?
porkchopsandwiches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #567
Bus Nut
 
wmkbailey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Frederick Maryland
Posts: 831
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: 3126
Rated Cap: 72
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by porkchopsandwiches
Since I am using mine for travel almost entirely at first, diesel makes more sense and wmkbailey has the same heater as I do. However, these are not the best for long-term stationary living situations. For one, I don't know if they are continuous duty rated. They are very VERY expensive to repair (ask me how I know) and you have to move the bus ~once a week to fill up the tank (60 gal in these) to keep it going, or find someone with one of those truck bed mounted diesel tank things.
They are continuous duty rated, boats use these to heat. This model we have, is rated for a 45' boat. The problem we have is, we can't run it whithout heating the engine. This is causing it to run more to keep that big piece of steel hot. I will set my system up to allow me to shut off heat to the engine until I need it. That requires the bus heat to be a closed system, that will need a expansion tank. Then a heat exchanger to the engine. If setup right we should not need more than 2 gal a day to heat the bus, that would be cold days.

Quote:
How wide are the scores in the insulation / what did you score it with? I am planning on using the same stuff. Are you going to put up any additional vapour barrier or is the foil good enough?
The scores are 3" a part x 1" deep. I used my new plunge saw, with the vacume attachment to help keep the dust down.

I'm putting up another inch and then a vapour barrier.
__________________
William

visvi Cherokee for Journey, Sounds Like Oeesha

http://thejourneyvisvi.com/

My Conversion Thread:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=464989
wmkbailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 06:46 PM   #568
Bus Crazy
 
Accordion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Central Tennessee
Posts: 1,093
Year: 1973
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: CAT 1160 V-8 Diesel
Rated Cap: 72
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Heat/

I have been using propane catalytic heaters for thirty years. Propane is not cheap. I also had a wood stove in my first bus. It would go out in the middle of the day, then it would take two hours to heat up the bus when I got home.

I do love those catalytic propane heaters.
__________________
Best Home Yet - Strong Command Center --- viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10764
Accordion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 08:15 PM   #569
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 147
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TE2000 FE
Engine: 5.9L Cummins
Rated Cap: 84
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accordion
Heat/

I have been using propane catalytic heaters for thirty years. Propane is not cheap. I also had a wood stove in my first bus. It would go out in the middle of the day, then it would take two hours to heat up the bus when I got home.

I do love those catalytic propane heaters.
Which ones have you been using?

Chuck
cschlessman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 09:33 PM   #570
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,939
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Re: The Journey Visvi 1999 Thomas MVP ER

Propane per 30 million BTU cost $517 at $0.50 cents a liter / $2.27 a gallon. This is the price of non road taxed heating propane.
Road taxed auto propane cost $0.90 cent a liter here or $4.86 a gallon. $931 per 30 million BTU
However, most propane appliances are only about 70% efficient at best. So by the time you factor in losses, you are at over $1000 per 30 million BTU. That puts propane at the same cost or higher per BTU as diesel and electricity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Accordion
Heat/

I have been using propane catalytic heaters for thirty years. Propane is not cheap. I also had a wood stove in my first bus. It would go out in the middle of the day, then it would take two hours to heat up the bus when I got home.

I do love those catalytic propane heaters.
IMO Propane is dangerous, and contains far to much moisture to be used the way you do. I personally will not use any fuel that don't vent the exhaust outside. The only thing propane is good for is running a generator so I have good, clean, safe energy to use in enclosed spaces.

Propane has one real advantage. It has a unlimited shelf life. As long as it stays in the tank, it never go's bad. As a example, If you filled a 10,000 gallon tank full of propane, waited 10 years and resold it for the future inflated price, it would give you a better return on your money than investing in stocks.

Remember, this is only my opinion. Not looking to step on any toes.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Our Skoolie Journey Ponyracer Skoolie Conversion Projects 60 03-19-2017 10:55 AM
Smells Like Teen Spirit: Conversion of 1999 Thomas MVP porkchopsandwiches Skoolie Conversion Projects 436 02-12-2017 08:38 AM
Starting My Conversion Journey Mark Antony Wray Conversion General Discussions 26 10-28-2014 10:41 PM
The Skoolie Journey usafny Short-Bus Conversion Projects 15 04-05-2010 10:37 PM
Advice for my journey??? cobaltcry Veggie Oil | WVO | Biodiesel | SVO 0 10-20-2008 06:49 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.