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Old 12-20-2006, 12:18 AM   #11
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Kind of an unrelated question, but this thread is active....do you have a site for those kinetic sculptures? It looks like the kind of thing I could get into.
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Old 12-20-2006, 01:15 AM   #12
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“Warning. thread drift in progress.”

But... since Millicent exists to support Kinetic Sculpture Racing, it belongs. And I do not let pass me by... any opportunity to promote this wondermuss hobby/sport/art-form/behavioral-disorder!


“The Two Ton Tricycle” in the Sacramento River


“Henry Ford Goes Surfing” goes... surfing in Eureka Harbor


“Henry Ford Goes Surfing” -- version 2.0 -- coming out of Humboldt Bay (different year)


“Pear County Chopper” at Klamath Falls


Those are my Kontraptions. Try these web sites and their links for other Kinetic mayhem. PM me for more info.
Yes, you ought to get into this!

http://www.kineticsculpturerace.org

http://www.kineticbaltimore.com

http://www.klamathkinetic.org

http://www.davinci-days.org/kinetic_sculpture_race.php

http://www.ptkineticrace.org/

http://www.kineticrace.com

Old #35 (RIP) at the Ventura Kinetic Sculpture Race, October 2006. Millicent is the replacement for Old #35.
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Old 12-20-2006, 09:28 PM   #13
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Those photos are really neat...reminds me of a few shows I've seen featuring some kinetic machines. Also methinks something happens in Port Townsend, Washington every year with the kinetic folks.

And excuse me Mr. Mathematician...but ye gads!...why are you going up 22.5"? You know that's almost 2 feet? What are you...like 7' tall? Obviously I'm razzing you but that's quite a lift...I thought I was getting radical thinking about 12".

I think you're keeping up with these guys:


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Old 12-20-2006, 10:24 PM   #14
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Yup, that’s about the size of it. Except I’m planning to cut thru the middle of the front cap and make the cap itself taller, rather than add onto it.

I don’t understand raising a roof six inches. So much work for so little, when all you have to do is keep pumping the jacks a couple more minutes to really get some space out of it?! Of course, that’s just me and my thinking -- I’m not in a position to criticize anybody who has completed this job!

I want to have upper bunks, without hitting my head when I sit up in the lower one. I also plan to sacrifice significant height for ceiling insulation, to protect against the summer sun. Space for ceiling insulation is free. Walls can not be moved outward as easily. (Legally, I could add 3” of insulation to the OUTSIDE of each wall!) So there.

Yup, again -- I have participated in two Kinetic Sculpture Races in Port Townsend; 2004 and this year. It is always held the first weekend of October. Fantastic fun! They really know how to Make Glorious Fools Of Ourselves in PT.

Here I am, running in circles (deliberately!) in the Port Townsend KSR Parade:




All right, back to Task At Hand.

Returned from steel store with 98 pieces of steel. 3 x 30 for window pillar inserts (extensions), four for lift rams and four for lift guides.

The inserts are 1 x 1 ½ rectangular tubing plus 1 x ¼ flat stock and 1 ½ x 3/16 flat stock to make up the right fit inside the Blue Bird window pillars.

The cross section of the insert is less than the original pillar, so I’m giving away a lot of roll-over protection. And with such a tall lift, a good argument could be made that the cross section of the pillars should be increased quite a bit. Instead, I plan to install cross bracing (diagonals) in several places.

Photo shows the insert pieces apart and assembled in a scrap of window pillar.




The lifting will be done with four jacks under four 52” long Lift Rams. The Rams will be attached to existing bolts in the roof -- just luck that there are bolts there!

The Rams will slide inside the Guides. The Guides are 17” long and bolt to the lower part of the bus.

Photo shows two sets; one apart and one assembled -- but the rams still need ears on top for the above mentioned bolts.



This is all about planning and preparation. Here a hole saw cuts holes in the Guides, so I can drop bolts thru and weld them in place. This will allow me to install and remove the guides without holding onto the bolt head -- which will be inaccessible behind the Lift Ram.
Lots of water from a squirt bottle keeps the hole saw cool and sharp. Buy the biggest, most powerful, drill press you can possibly afford -- not a Fisher-Price one like I have!



I’m actually making progress!
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Old 12-21-2006, 03:23 AM   #15
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With the extra height - what will be your final height at the top? Just curious about how low an overhead obstacle will cause issues. I've got lightbars with rotators for Millicent if you can use them (I set aside the pair that matched for front and rear) but I'm wondering if you would have to mount them on shelves front and rear to put them below the final ceiling height?

I'm going to put just one on old #36.

Kevin
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Old 12-21-2006, 08:24 AM   #16
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Hi Elliot,

Wow! That's quite a kinetic sculpture you're riding in that photo. Port Townsend is all but in my back yard!
[BTW...looks like we go to the same hairdresser for our beard coloring! ]

I'm amazed at all the pieces you put together for your roof lift. Will you (or do you need to) end up welding the three insert pieces together before they're installed?

And so I understand this...you're actually cutting out most of the original frame and replacing it with the (longer) insert? Or are you just making one cut across the orginal frame, lifting the roof, dropping the insert in, and then lowering the roof back down to the final height?

I still haven't decided whether to raise the roof or not. The only reason I might "need" it is to gain space for insulation in the floor; secondarily it would give me more height for windows (RV style), a more "open" feeling inside the bus, and it might turn out to look better (but that's open to debate I suppose ). I admit the thought of doing it still intimidates me; perhaps your photos and descriptions will inspire me to tackle the project (since it's really the only thing I would change on the bus).

Which brings to mind a question. What are you doing with regard to your windows? Using the bus windows? Installing RV-style units? I got a quote from a Hehr window place yesterday; pretty scary. I think I'll take a trip to Rochester, WA and visit Singleton's RV Salvage; there must be some good used windows available.
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Old 12-21-2006, 12:26 PM   #17
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Happy to clarify:

Kevin:
Millicent is almost 10’ high. I don’t have exact measurements front and rear, but
10’ looks safe. With a 22.5 lift, final height will be safely under 12’. This leaves 18”
for solar water heating pipes, deck, rocket launchers etc. (13’6” is legal in all
states; 14’ in most.)
I’m not worried about hitting any overhead obstacles. With diesel engine I’ll be
refueling in truck stops -- lots of room. Sure, there may be the occasional local
low bridge -- there is one next to the camp ground in Corvallis, so I have to go a
few blocks around. No big deal -- I’ve spent ¼ century avoiding low bridges
(successfully, mostly!). Just stay out of Chicago!

Les:
Thank you! We DO have fun with Kinetic Sculpture Racing. I think of it this way:
Most adults only imitate the games that children play -- with carefully measured
sticks and rules that must be followed. In contrast, Kinetic Racers ACTUALLY
PLAY.

The inserts will be welded together. A half inch bead at each end should do it,
just so they stay together. That’s today’s project, once I get out in the garage.

Oh... it cost 50 Cents per cut to have those 98 pieces prepared by the steel store
-- exact lengths and perfectly square. $49,-. Worth every penny!

I’m making just one cut across each original window pillar. Thus, the finished
pillars will be roughly half and half original and new. I may need to add shims to
the outside surface of the inserts to get the skin to fit smoothly.

Yes, roof goes up, inserts go in, and roof gets “impaled” on the top of the inserts.
So the inserts need stops at both ends.

In the roof, the stops are those bolts I mentioned earlier -- the ones that will serve
as lift points. The lower of the two will be the upper stop for the insert.



At the bottom, the stops will be the bolts that fasten the Guides. These go thru
the screw holes that held the windows -- perfect for the purpose as they are all
evenly placed along the bus. I just drill them out to 5/16 and thru to the outside.
The upper of these two will be the bottom stop for the insert.
The Cut will be at the arrow.
(After the welding is done, I may have trouble getting those Guides loose, but
there are only four of them. Brute force is allowed -- we’re not building a watch
here!)



Have not decided about the windows. I picked up five RV windows cheap at the
local flea market, but don’t know if I will use them. I cannot place the windows
until I finalize the floor plan, and I cannot finish the floor plan until I have the roof
up. The floor plan will be based on the old one (in Old #35, RIP), but I need to
“experience” the new height to decide -- specially about the upper bunks. Sure,
I’ll wind up cutting away a couple of the new inserts for windows. No big deal.

[This post has been "scroll proofed".]
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Old 12-21-2006, 04:28 PM   #18
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Great explanation...and thanks!

Guess when I get the rest of the seats out (this weekend is the plan), get the ceiling panel down and the side panels out (all screws, no rivets...hope they turn!) I'll have a better sense of what it will take to make all the cuts and go up. I especially want to see what I have to do to the rear cap; I'm hoping that I can cut it as you plan to on your caps, go straight up and then fill in.
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Old 12-21-2006, 04:50 PM   #19
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Les, I have not decided on my rear cap. The top half of the rear slopes
forward, which complicates things just a bit. And there is going to be a
big door/ramp back there for rolling Kinetic Kontraptions in and out, so I
expect to do some fabrication. I may extend the roof rearward and get
rid of the slope. I'll worry about that after the roof is up and I can see
what I have to work with then. Planning, yes. Obsessing about it, no!

Just finished welding up the 30 extensions. Then dug a trench along the
garage and got the soil and rain away from the wall. Life is good.

[scroll proofed]
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Old 12-21-2006, 09:47 PM   #20
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looking good! I'm following this close, there's a major project in my future, it just has not been decided if it will be a skoolie to live in and pull a trailer with toys or a toter to pull an enclosed gooseneck with living quarters and garage, but something is about to happen.

I like the thorough thought process and planing for the roof raise it looks like it is very doable and safe, i just wish i was closer so that I could check this out in the flesh.

suggestion/question, if i may without bruising any ego's, how much strength could be gained by having hat channels made to fit over the existing ribs by 6 inches or more on each end and then filling in the face with the appropriate strap to tie the face together? I only ask because of the comment about rollover strength, which is something that you are not susposed to be testing.

thanks for sharing the experience
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