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Old 12-30-2006, 01:09 AM   #61
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NICE JOB! And it was all done with no smoke or mirrors, too! I know it wasn't as easy as it you made it look, but man, you made it look easy! Since everything I try works out like a Rube Goldberg contraption, roof lifts are out of the question for me.
Keep up the great work, and keep keepin' us posted!

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Old 12-30-2006, 08:22 AM   #62
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Wow! I love that last photo; really shows the "new look".

Elliot, I have a question (or a hundred) for you...

Once you cut the last of the uprights and lifted the roof was there any "give" in the lower portion of the uprights? Could they have been tweaked (say with a ratchet strap or Spanish windlass) inward 3/16" to a 1/4" or so?

I did a quick drawing and found with a 12" lift if the uprights were cut at their midpoints each 'cut loose' end of the uprights would be 3/16" off a line drawn from the upper end of the top upright section to the lower end of the bottom upright section. At first glace it appears that the top of the bottom part of the upright would have to tilt in that 3/16" to 1/4" and the bottom end of the top portion would need to tilt out that amount to align with a filler piece.

I need to do the drawing full scale with actual dimensions from the components on the bus to see if my quick analysis holds.

I'd pretty much convinced my self I wanted to raise the roof (thanks in no small part to your example; even before yesterday's lift) but then when I saw your lift apparatus in place in the photos I suddenly realized the implication of the angle my bus' uprights have.

I work on a Tuesday through Saturday schedule so my weekend starts on Sunday. I'll know tomorrow after I get a window or two out and can accurately measure the upright members and get a better look at how things come together at the roof line and at the top of the side wall.
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Old 12-30-2006, 11:50 AM   #63
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WOW! i'm impressed. You sure made it look easy.
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Old 12-30-2006, 12:02 PM   #64
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Cornerposts and decisions
When I built my jeep i needed a sheetmetal break so I made a poormans brake by bolting a heavy angle to the edge of the workbench, then I could clamp a piece of sheetmetal to the bench with another angle on top, then with an assistant applying some pressure alonng the edge to be bent with a piece of hardwood and working it with a large hammer that progress could be made, it's amazing what determination and necessity can do in the middle of the night on a weekend.
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Old 12-30-2006, 01:33 PM   #65
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Griff:
Rube Goldberg is my Hero! Patron Saint of Kinetic Sculpture Racing!
Oh... If you could see the mirrors, it would not be a successful stunt, now would it.

Les:
I did not test the flexibility of my window pillars, but if they won’t bend easily,
you would just make partial cuts until they will bend, and weld them up afterwards.
That’s how the custom car builders lower their roofs. I’ve never looked at a Thomas,
but it sounds perfectly doable. I’ll take a fresh look at the Illusion thread and we’ll
make further plans there.

Thanks for the appreciative comments everybody! I gather that this actual
movement of the roof is the big boogaboo. Do you guys feel that you could take
it from there yourself if your bus only got safely to this point?
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Old 12-30-2006, 02:40 PM   #66
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How about making a tool kind of like a King Kong condiut bender to tweek the window posts/ribs?
I think that I would cut the top loose and drive 2 miles to the steel scrapyard and have them lift it off and then reframe a new aero front roof with square corners and straight walls so that all of the curves would be eliminated in the interior carpentry. Sometimes I don't really appreciate the advantage of living in this large metro area. While surfing another bus site I stumbled into "Filon fiberglass" panels that are used for travel trailer sides, anyhow can be installed with adhesives is prefinished will bend around 3" radius and is available from our Elkhart surplus connections, it also looks like it con be ordered from the factory, up to 12' wide and 500' long rolls( I haven't checked that out yet because I'm not that far), anyhow just more info to confuse the smoke and mirrors.
Back to the question raise the roof? Without a doubt @6'8" their is no other option my, head is nothing but scabs covering scars.
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Old 12-30-2006, 02:55 PM   #67
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Hmmm... Yes, I do believe I will look at Filon and other alternatives before I
spend a Grand on aluminum panels. Thanks for the tip!
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Old 12-30-2006, 07:00 PM   #68
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Well...seeing as I love to read and learn and the weather has been a little bleak (and it's dark at 4:30pm) I've spent some time cruising the Internet lately looking at all sorts of bus conversions. Just happened to run across this one last night and they used Filon for the side skins on their Eagle bus.

http://www.webcove.com/eagle/

Scroll down the left side dates to 8/3/2005...that's where the skinning starts. They have a link to the Filon folks (and lots of other suppliers) on their LINKS page (off the home page).

I first read about Filon a couple of years ago when I was contemplating building a teardrop trailer. These are the folks that used it when they built theirs:

http://www.outbackteardrop.com/
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Old 12-30-2006, 10:01 PM   #69
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That is pretty much what I wanted to do with my bus, unfortunately I'm not good with metal and figured this was too much of an undertaking for me to try.
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Old 12-30-2006, 10:02 PM   #70
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Looks like those Eagle people used just angle iron and C-clamps to keep the roof
aligned while they lifted with trailer tongue jacks in unstable balance. I'm sure
glad I made more positive guides. Of course, they had enough people there that
they didn't really need jacks -- they could have just heave-hoed it!

BIIIIIIIIIG sheet of Filon! I couldn’t round up enough people here in Clearlake to
install such a large piece. Wonder what that stuff costs?

Now, here is what I did today:
Diagonals, cross-bracing, triangulation -- peel a Grayhound, and this is the sort of
structure you will find. (See that Eagle.) I’m putting some of these where I know
there will not be windows.




“Hey, your glove is on fire!”

“Just a minute, I’m busy welding.”



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Old 12-31-2006, 12:28 PM   #71
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Good show, good show!

I love to see a plan be executed so well. Did you have ANY hitches? I can't seem to ever have it all go right, even when I plan stuff a year in advance.

I've convinced myself that I too would never raise the roof....I'd just torch it off and build a flat top at whatever height I wanted. I just don't have the patience to be as precise as you are!
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Old 12-31-2006, 12:56 PM   #72
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Actually, some things have gone wrong and are not all that precise.
The front cap wound up 1/4 inch or so higher on one side than the other. I didn't
mind that it was offset 1/8 side to side, but the 1/4 out of level is disappointing.
I considered tearing into it to try to correct it. But rather than panic and go nuts
with cutting tools and waste a lot of time, I asked a second opinion of my good friend
Otis Gudenov. He said "Oh, 'tis good enough." Otis Gudenov is a dear and valuable
companion who saves me a lot of unneccessary work.

I cannot imagine building an entire new roof from scratch like some people do.
Why?! There is a roof there already -- all you have to do is reposition it. I think the
tough work is ahead of me.
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Old 12-31-2006, 01:38 PM   #73
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I think that everyone that is involved in projects like this should know Otis, the difference between an excellent job and a so so job is in knowing when to disagree with Otis and also how to adjust/compensate, for a finished look. I seriously doubt that anyone will see the discrepency unless you point it out, besides, I'll donate a set of measuring tape suspenders so you can make everything the same size side to side.
Again; excellent job, I'm extreemly impressed!
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Old 12-31-2006, 02:59 PM   #74
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Thank yew. Thank yew verry mush.

But the rumor of success may be premature, as there is so much left to do!

At the moment, I am welding in various cross-bracing. Where I cannot
get a sound connection between two structural members, I add guessets.
It ain't pretty, but nothing I have welded has ever come apart.

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Old 12-31-2006, 03:46 PM   #75
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I worked for a un-named carnavel ride builder...one saying went "doesn't have to be pretty, just work".... course we always hide when it was time to test out the new rides....
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Old 12-31-2006, 04:13 PM   #76
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It's always the painter that gets the most value added points, this part is always at the bottom of the food chain, paint just makes it pretty, this is the part that makes it work.
Did I mention KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK?
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Old 12-31-2006, 11:33 PM   #77
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Well heck....after measurement after measurement and using a ton of jigs to position stuff, the wheelbase on my truck varies by 1/4 inch from side to side. Nothing a good 4 wheel alignment can't fix.
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Old 12-31-2006, 11:54 PM   #78
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Lookin' good Elliot!

I like those diagonal braces...up here in the Pacific Northwet (err...Northwest) we call that style of building Skookum! And meant to last a good long while.

By the way...what sort of welder do you use? (Since it seems apparent I better educate my self).
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Old 01-01-2007, 12:59 AM   #79
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I use an old Lincoln "tombstone" 220 Volt arc welder. That does not mean that
you should. I burn a lot of holes.

From all accounts, a MIG (wire feed) is the easy way to get servicable welds.
As with all tools, get a good one. My pal Peter has a small gas-less MIG, which
serves him well on his bicycles and such at home, but it failed to weld on Millicent
even at full power.

Since it's New Years Eve, I'll ramble a little.
Back around 1999, I took the unfinished Two Ton Tricycle (Kinetic Sculpture
Racing Kontraption) down to the river for its first float test. The test went well,
and drew a lot of attention from boaters and other bystanders. One guy looked
closely at it and exclaimed "Who made these horrible welds?!" I don't know if
he was just trying to be jovial, or if he somehow didn't realize that the perpetrator was
standing right there and might feel insulted, or what -- it doesn't matter, because he was
right, and I was not offended. I just gave him my standard answer: "Oh no, there is no
welding here. It is all assembled with a type of hot glue called... "slag"."
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Old 01-01-2007, 07:53 AM   #80
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Does that welder have a setting for "doesn't try and weld flesh of hands to steel?" Seriously...what's with those gloves? I know I shouldn't talk...my typical welding garb is a t-shirt, jeans, and sandals. I like to get the full effect....Heck...even in the pictures of me grinding my seat bolts I'm only wearing a t-shirt, jeans, and safety glasses and that was in the middle of a Minnesota February. 5 points for trying to wear safety equipment. -10 points for managing to set leather on fire.
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