The Millicent Chronicles; two foot roof raise, big tailgate

[paul iossi]

I thought that I had the patent on those gloves, apparently my paperwork is only for the other hand, if your glove gets lonely I can send more custom convertable gloves.

Les;

I like the portability of the 110v suitcase welders for sheetmetal and fit and tack operations and have had lots of sucess with them especially if you upgrade to the gas option. I currently have a Hobart 210 that I'm happy with, it requires 220v 50Aand is big enuff that its not a portable welder, although I do run it on my generator and take it wherever, it's mostly a dedicated shop machine. I use supermix gas CO2 Argon and 1%Helium, CO2 and Argon works good for most applications and the helium gives me SS capabilities by just changing the wire.

Recommendation for an advanced homeowner/skoolie project would be;
1- major brand name, Miller and Hobart are under the same corp, Lincoln, and ESAB are the other major players in this part of the country.
2- talk to your local welding supply houses, find out who is going to be most helpful and what products (brands) they handle, do they fill or exchange gas cylinders, who pays to hydro test the bottles? etc. My supplier sold me the bottles , no monthly rental fees, exchanges empties for fulls with at least 6 years to test date(usually new), and is a servicing dealer for my machine.
3- You probably need/want something in the 150a range, 30to40% duty cycle(3 to 4 minuites out of 10 at max capacity) with shielding gas, look for a package deal,welder cart,gloves, helmet,gas cylinder, basic consumables,etc. (cylinders are sold empty)
4- Shop around, just make sure to compare apples to apples, I found my best deal at Tractor Supply and then went to the welding supply for all consumables and support.
5- Take an adult ed welding course thru the local school system, the instructors contacts are worth as much as the actual coursework.
6- Welding is 10% knowledge and 90% practice, get your face in there and watch what you are doing. I,m old school and use a small window helmet with a #11 gold lense, paint the outside of the helmet white or silver to reflect the heat and wear a carbon filter resperator for lung health.

[Les Lampman]

Oh boy! Another thread highjack! Sorry Elliot.

Paul, thanks for all that. As soon as I translate it to English I'll be good to go! Seriously, it points me at the things I need to research and learn.

I've been looking at the Hobart Handler 140; not quite to your 150a spec but close enough?

[Les Lampman]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

I just gave him my standard answer: "Oh no, there is no welding here. It is all assembled with a type of hot glue called... "slag"."

I love that!

[paul iossi]

That's the machine i was thinking, I just did'nt want to apear to opinionated, because that becomes judgemental,and that's not pc.

[Elliot Naess]

I should be drilling rivets, but it is too noisy out there. The nice little old lady across
the street is vacuuming her yard with a giant bagpipe-looking Suck-O-Luxe
-- so her yapping schnauzers can have a clean comfortable place to poop.

I’m getting ready to TRY to install some new skin on Millicent. And for once I’ll try
to economize and re-purpose by using some old aluminum sheets that I already
have. And I may be able to get more. These are remnants from trailer roofs that
have been installed at work. About .050 thick. They are dented, but maybe I can
put the worst dents where the windows will go. We’ll see. I’m done with the
planning (The Lift itself) and winging it. (I bet that Filon isn’t cheap.)


To get a reasonably smooth surface for the new skin, the outside plates on the
window pillars have to go. Just a few rivets and they fall off. I’m also taking out
all the rivets along the top of the rub rail. The new skin will go behind that rail,
eliminating the need to cut the sheet straight and pretty.

[Elliot Naess]

Yeeehah! Cutoff blade in Skilsaw sliced thru that aluminum sheet like paper.
(Where have I heard that expression before?) I didn’t doubt that it would cut,
but was afraid it would be an awful tangle. Those big sheets are a handful just
to move around. So I clamped the work between two full sheets of plywood with
a bunch of ballast on top and used the plywood to guide the saw. Nothing to it.
I just saved myself hundreds of dollars -- a Grand if we have enough remnants
at work.

[paul iossi]

Yes! dumpster diving is an honorable pasttime, especially if you know what kinds of things might be there

[Les Lampman]

What the heck is in the channel of the pillar here?



Ewwww....

Man, that pillar is a dead ringer for those on my bus, wonder if they buy the material from the same place? The only difference I see is that the outside plates on my Thomas are held in place with screws rather than riveted.

Over to the Illusion thread...

[paul iossi]

It's a scalp, the indians are restless!

[Elliot Naess]

The ewwwwwy stuff is fiberglass insulation -- what's left of it.
.
.
.
.
But, yes, I did consider inventing a more colorful description for it! :P

[paul iossi]

Some helpful hints for aluminum,
When doing the layout work use a sharpie marker, if you scribe your marks, the lines start stress risers that will work harden and crack at some future time.
Learn to work with the grain of the aluminum, if you want to break (bend)the aluminum across the grain, scramble the grain on both sides of the sheet with an abrasive wheel before bending, this helps to prevent cracks.
To anneal aluminum, set your oxy/acetelene torch to the rich mode, yellow flame and lots of black smoke, then soot up the aluminum, with black soot all over the area to be annealed, readjust the torch to heat mode, blue flame no smoke, heat the aluminum with the torch until the soot starts to disapear, remove torch immediatly! Any more heat and the aluminum will puddle on the floor, it still amazes me at how fast aluminum goes from plastic to liquid --- their are no visible indicators to the state change until you have to start all over with new material
Work aluminum slowly, try to never get into a position where you have to use a hammer to form sheet aluminum, take your time, push it, bend it, persuade it, put on your tennie runners and sneak up on it, but don't hit it with a hammer and dollie.

[Elliot Naess]

Thanks, Paul, you are a veritable fountain of knowledge! Back around 1985,
I crunched a piece of aluminum on an 18-wheeler. Luckily, it was bolted on,
and I had some short 2x4s. When I was done walking on it, you couldn’t really
see that it was damaged, unless the light hit it just right. Yeah buddy, work
WITH the material.

The first sheet of aluminum skin is in place on Millicent. Not fully fastened,
but in position.

Wrestling with that sheet by myself was fun. I slipped the bottom of the sheet
behind the rub rail first -- taking advantage of gravity -- then bowed the sheet
and got the top under the rain lip. But it wouldn’t quite go into place -- gravity
now working against me.



So I C-clamped two scraps of angle aluminum to the edge of the sheet and
hooked a 2� ratchet strap to that -- over the top of the bus. That, plus a hammer,
lifted the sheet into place.


It will never be smooth, but this ain’t no hoity-toity Prevost.

[Les Lampman]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

It will never be smooth, but this ain’t no hoity-toity Prevost.

Doggonit Elliot, you always keep me laughing. You're a dangerous man when one has just taken a sip of a beverage and then reads one of your posts! That's ok, I have screen cleaner.

[paul iossi]

There is no reason for you to learn the same way I did. When you get to the annealing stuff it will pay to experment with some scraps before you get to the good stuff, also don't quench the aluminum, that tends to harden it.

[Elliot Naess]

That's ok, I have screen cleaner.

[snickers to self: "Heh, heh, heh... got one!"]

[paul iossi]

Didn't the book say something about zinc chromate primer and galvanic corrosion when using dissimilar metals?
Les; It's your turn your'e the marine electric guru with the dissimilar material experience and knowledge

[Les Lampman]

Originally Posted by paul iossi

Didn't the book say something about zinc chromate primer and galvanic corrosion when using dissimilar metals?
Les; It's your turn your'e the marine electric guru with the dissimilar material experience and knowledge

I don't know about the bus since I'm assuming he's not going to float it in saltwater along with his Kinetic Sculptures, but if you do Elliot then by all means you'll need to isolate those materials!

On a more serious note...I would think that the aluminum and steel wouldn't play well together except that's how just about all of the over-the-road buses are built...steel frames with aluminum skin riveted on. I do know it would be death by sinking on a boat but on a bus

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Elliot Naess

. . .It will never be smooth, but this ain’t no hoity-toity Prevost.

Couldn't you use the same c-clamp / strap method to stretch it tight front to back and remove some of the ripples?

[roger107]

@ Elliot: I have stumbled over your project while looking for Material about the Blue Bird TC2000.

Do you happen to have blueprints of the bus or know, where I could find them?

[Elliot Naess]

I am aware of the phenomenon of galvanic corrosion. Kind'a forgot about
it yesterday, but yes, I should separate those materials with paint. And
should probably use stainless rivets.

Yes, I plan to pull the sheet aluminum tight before riveting. When they
install these roofs at work, they pull on it with a fork lift and a long chain.
An other trick is to heat the sheet to expand it. Then is becomes tighter
as it cools. I might try a space heater.

Roger: I have no blueprints. What are you trying to accomplish?

I'll be out of town today; work resumes tomorrow.