The Story of Transcendence

[EastCoastCB]

i like air drills as long as i have a compressor that can keep up.

[nat_ster]

Originally Posted by MuddaEarth

Thanks.....
I would tend to agree with you on certain levels, but not all air drills are created equally. I've worked in the aircraft and auto body industries for quite some time and have used many different brands/styles. Most do suck!! But, the drill I'm using in this video is made by a Swedish company called Atlas Copco. This is the smoothest running and must trigger responsive ergonomic drill I have ever used. Every electric drill I've ever used becomes cumbersome and uncomfortable in my hands after many hours of use, not to mention they get hot..
I guess I've just used air powered tools for so long that I've become very used to them and their efficiency.

Myself being a tradesman also, I watched your video carefully as you used that drill. I could tell you used it with skill, experience, and precision. You have held that drill many hours. I could tell it wasn't performing like most.

Glad you have a good one.

Nat

[aaronsb]

One thing I might have done different after the roof raise is to purchase galvaneealed sheet metal (not hot dip) instead of regular cold roll mild steel. I used 20 gauge which was the same as the roof. The galvaneealed stuff generally can be pre-ordered with a primed surface as well (you get the characteristic green coating)

It would be more expensive, but would also cause less rust troubles after you've bucked thousands of rivets into the vehicle.

Are you going to use the sawhorse double hydraulic jack method that a couple other folks have used to hoist panels into place?

I elected to leave the rail directly under the windows in place, but pull the upper row of rivets off. I then gently pried the rub rail back a little bit. With that, I was able to use an assistant or two holding the metal sheet with window suction cups (the big ones for installing glass) and position the steel. We could rest it in that trough made by the rail. Once there, drilled a few key spots in the middle and clecos to hold in place.

I also used VHB tape between the ribs and the metal on the inside to bond everything together, then drill and rivet directly through the vhb.

[aaronsb]

You also might find that bottom frame section that spans the window opening should be removed when attaching a sheet. I suppose it adds some strength to the structure, but it kind of gets in the way of making a clean looking assembly that won't leak. (not to mention four layers of metal to rivet through (rub rail -> bottom sheet -> top sheet -> frame section)

[nat_ster]

I left the rub rail at the bottom of the window in place, only removing the top rivets for bolting the new panels on. I want everything possible over lapped so the water can't enter. This means that the bottom of my new panels are on top of the last 3/4 inch of rub rail.

I also like the galvanized panels. My bus was galvanized, I think any new metal should be also.

I used a bobcat with pallet forks for the 4 big sheets. Then used a 2x4 eight feet long as a lever off a scaffold plank to fine tune the placement.

Nat

[MuddaEarth]

Originally Posted by aaronsb

One thing I might have done different after the roof raise is to purchase galvaneealed sheet metal (not hot dip) instead of regular cold roll mild steel. I used 20 gauge which was the same as the roof. The galvaneealed stuff generally can be pre-ordered with a primed surface as well (you get the characteristic green coating)

It would be more expensive, but would also cause less rust troubles after you've bucked thousands of rivets into the vehicle.

Are you going to use the sawhorse double hydraulic jack method that a couple other folks have used to hoist panels into place?

I elected to leave the rail directly under the windows in place, but pull the upper row of rivets off. I then gently pried the rub rail back a little bit. With that, I was able to use an assistant or two holding the metal sheet with window suction cups (the big ones for installing glass) and position the steel. We could rest it in that trough made by the rail. Once there, drilled a few key spots in the middle and clecos to hold in place.

I also used VHB tape between the ribs and the metal on the inside to bond everything together, then drill and rivet directly through the vhb.

First....let me say, You have done a great job on your bus. Your craftsmanship is well recognized....Much respect to you!!

I have a friend that owns a sign company, he has a bunch of the galvaneealed steel sheet in stock. I'm going to meet him in the next couple weekends at his shop with a trailer to pick some up. It holds paint well and is protected against rust while doing the work. I'll epoxy prime the new panels once in place.

I'm hoping to have a few friends over to help place the panels, haven't really came up with a gameplan. Will definitely drill a few areas and cleco in place though. I was thinking of drilling all holes then removing panels to deburr and clean burrs from between panels, then seal and rivet back together. It's a bit of extra work, but to be able to seal every surface that comes in contact with the new skin seems worth the effort. That's basically how we did things in aircraft production.

I'll check out the area that spans the windows, might be good to remove it, especially since I'm planning on putting the rub rail back in place for structural rigidity.

[MuddaEarth]

Originally Posted by nat_ster

Myself being a tradesman also, I watched your video carefully as you used that drill. I could tell you used it with skill, experience, and precision. You have held that drill many hours. I could tell it wasn't performing like most.

Glad you have a good one.

Nat

Thanks Nat.....Might I say, you are doing a fantastic job on your bus. And, you must have soooo much patience to be using battery powered tools. It's awesome to see that poor'ol bus being brought back to life....Good Job!!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by MuddaEarth

First....let me say, You have done a great job on your bus. Your craftsmanship is well recognized....Much respect to you!!

I have a friend that owns a sign company, he has a bunch of the galvaneealed steel sheet in stock. I'm going to meet him in the next couple weekends at his shop with a trailer to pick some up. It holds paint well and is protected against rust while doing the work. I'll epoxy prime the new panels once in place.

I'm hoping to have a few friends over to help place the panels, haven't really came up with a gameplan. Will definitely drill a few areas and cleco in place though. I was thinking of drilling all holes then removing panels to deburr and clean burrs from between panels, then seal and rivet back together. It's a bit of extra work, but to be able to seal every surface that comes in contact with the new skin seems worth the effort. That's basically how we did things in aircraft production.

I'll check out the area that spans the windows, might be good to remove it, especially since I'm planning on putting the rub rail back in place for structural rigidity.

I could tell a couple posts in that you were one serious builder. I could tell you knew what you were talking about and have experience. I'm really looking forward to copying lots of your ideas!

[MuddaEarth]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I could tell a couple posts in that you were one serious builder. I could tell you knew what you were talking about and have experience. I'm really looking forward to copying lots of your ideas!

Thanks.... I'm hoping to make this my full time home, so I'm going to do the best possible work I am capable of. I definitely have learned many things and great ideas from this forum. THANKS TO EVERYONE THAT HAS CONTRIBUTED THIER TIME, IDEAS, CRITIQUES, AND ENCOURAGEMENT. This is a great group of folks and I'm honored to a part of it all!!

[MuddaEarth]

Quick update.....
Today I was able to look at the frame section that spans between the windows.....Thanks aaronsb for the heads up.....there will definitely be no good reason for them to stay, they are coming out. It'll make insulating it so much easier also!

[aaronsb]

Here's a goal photo for you.

Originally Posted by MuddaEarth

Quick update.....
Today I was able to look at the frame section that spans between the windows.....Thanks aaronsb for the heads up.....there will definitely be no good reason for them to stay, they are coming out. It'll make insulating it so much easier also!

[EastCoastCB]

Funny i get 16ga galvanneal cheaper than plain old hot rolled.
I'm getting a bit jealous of you guys and gals with CLEAN ceilings. Mine have a ton of surface rust trapped under the thick layer of TAR that they slathered on the entire underside of the roof.
Takes about an hour to clean the tar off one little squared section.

[MuddaEarth]

Originally Posted by aaronsb

Here's a goal photo for you.

Thanks for the inspiration!!

[MuddaEarth]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Funny i get 16ga galvanneal cheaper than plain old hot rolled.
I'm getting a bit jealous of you guys and gals with CLEAN ceilings. Mine have a ton of surface rust trapped under the thick layer of TAR that they slathered on the entire underside of the roof.
Takes about an hour to clean the tar off one little squared section.

I have a very thin layer of tar on my ceiling also, no rust though, so I'm just going to leave it there.
What are you going to treat the rust with after removing the tar?

[MuddaEarth]

A short video of more progress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmMuX1yVNg8

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by MuddaEarth

I have a very thin layer of tar on my ceiling also, no rust though, so I'm just going to leave it there.
What are you going to treat the rust with after removing the tar?

First Ospho, then Rusty Metal Primer by Rustoleum, them a quick topcoat of some flat black. I'm thinking about using some extra Rhino Lining too.
Lots of my tar looked ok and once peeled back it hid a TON of rust.
Not sayin yours is, but maybe look behind some if you havent already.
I think the tar in mine is trapping the natural condensation that happens inside the steel shell. It all started on my bus from a few missing rivets and all four corners of both emergency hatches were really shot and leaking profusely.
For how leaky my bus was, the rust isn't too bad but is way more than I'd have ever thought.

[Tango]

I had a lot of the "tar" on my '46 that was a royal pain (someone told me technically it was "asphaltum"?) but my metal was pretty clean underneath. After battling even tiny amounts, I tried a large wire wheel on my 7" angle grinder. It took it down pretty quickly but left a film. That can be dissolved/picked up using an old towel soaked in paint prep. I had been using Dupli-Color Ps100 Prep Grease and Wax Remover to clean up all my metal for painting and discovered it did a great job on the nasty tar as well. You can get it in spray cans but it's much cheaper as a liquid. Handy stuff to have around.

[nat_ster]

As rusty as my bus was, the ceiling was rust free.

Both my buses had the tar on the inner skin sheets. I think it's used to glue the fiberglass insulation in place.

Nat

[Stu & Filo. T]

Originally Posted by Tango

I had a lot of the "tar" on my '46 that was a royal pain (someone told me technically it was "asphaltum"?) but my metal was pretty clean underneath. After battling even tiny amounts, I tried a large wire wheel on my 7" angle grinder. It took it down pretty quickly but left a film. That can be dissolved/picked up using an old towel soaked in paint prep. I had been using Dupli-Color Ps100 Prep Grease and Wax Remover to clean up all my metal for painting and discovered it did a great job on the nasty tar as well. You can get it in spray cans but it's much cheaper as a liquid. Handy stuff to have around.

Ok I'm missing something, I have tar on my roof also, from what I can tell I have no rust & I wasn't planning on removing the tar, why are you removing all the tar???

[MuddaEarth]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

First Ospho, then Rusty Metal Primer by Rustoleum, them a quick topcoat of some flat black. I'm thinking about using some extra Rhino Lining too.
Lots of my tar looked ok and once peeled back it hid a TON of rust.
Not sayin yours is, but maybe look behind some if you havent already.
I think the tar in mine is trapping the natural condensation that happens inside the steel shell. It all started on my bus from a few missing rivets and all four corners of both emergency hatches were really shot and leaking profusely.
For how leaky my bus was, the rust isn't too bad but is way more than I'd have ever thought.

Strange you have rust under all the "tar". You'd think it would have been a good moisture barrier. Maybe when it was sprayed on at the factory it was a very humid day and trapped the moisture in. I checked a few areas on mine and it's rust free underneath. It definitely looks like it was used to hold insulation in place.