The wolf bus

[nat_ster]

I use a cordless electric shaver. No water needed, and it charges while driving my car.

(I live off grid with no electricity)

My wife even gave me a shave in bed once.

Nat

[M1031A1]

Originally Posted by nat_ster

My wife even gave me a shave in bed once.

Nat

Talk about TMI!!!!!

[bansil]

hahahahahahahahah... ...hahahaha...HA! ;)

[maggiemae]

Oh boy.

So.. I spend most of the day driving around trying to find someone that sells metalbestos. I kept getting sent along, and ended up going to five different places before saying screw it, I'll go with something else.

What came with the stove is 1 and a half foot single wall going into t.w. 3 foot metalbestos.
I know I'll need an extension, and I can't find anything here. And I hate ordering stuff like that on the Internet. Too worried the order will be wrong or damaged.

So I talked to a stove guy who sold me metalfab stuff. I drew a picture of what it will be set up like with the stuff I purchased today.

But after I bought it, this other guy that worked there came in and was like... "I really don't think you're going to need all this. Just get single wall and to through the roof." I said I was worried about the metal burning, (like some of you had said), and he laughed and said that it won't burn, I'm not going to have a fire much over 500 degrees, and I could really get away with just single wall stove pipe, through a cut hole in the roof, and sealed with silicone(high heat). He said that the protectors that they put around combustibles in the ceiling of homes is the same material as my bus.

So now I'm worried that I just dropped 250 for no reason. The photos of wood burners in busses almost all just have single wall going straight through.

Justin just picked up some fire grade insullation from his work today, so we have that too he says it's called rock wool. (Kinda silly that justin works for a company that has an insullation side, and only today he went in to talk to them. Lol. Men.)

So, what do you guys have in your bus? Single wall all the way thru?

[maggiemae]

Oh boy.

So.. I spend most of the day driving around trying to find someone that sells metalbestos. I kept getting sent along, and ended up going to five different places before saying screw it, I'll go with something else.

What came with the stove is 1 and a half foot single wall going into t.w. 3 foot metalbestos.
I know I'll need an extension, and I can't find anything here. And I hate ordering stuff like that on the Internet. Too worried the order will be wrong or damaged.

So I talked to a stove guy who sold me metalfab stuff. I drew a picture of what it will be set up like with the stuff I purchased today.
Attachment 6736

But after I bought it, this other guy that worked there came in and was like... "I really don't think you're going to need all this. Just get single wall and to through the roof." I said I was worried about the metal burning, (like some of you had said), and he laughed and said that it won't burn, I'm not going to have a fire much over 500 degrees, and I could really get away with just single wall stove pipe, through a cut hole in the roof, and sealed with silicone(high heat). He said that the protectors that they put around combustibles in the ceiling of homes is the same material as my bus.

So now I'm worried that I just dropped 250 for no reason. The photos of wood burners in busses almost all just have single wall going straight through.

Justin just picked up some fire grade insullation from his work today, so we have that too he says it's called rock wool. (Kinda silly that justin works for a company that has an insullation side, and only today he went in to talk to them. Lol. Men.)

So, what do you guys have in your bus? Single wall all the way thru?

[nat_ster]

Single wall pipe is dangerous and will radiate to much heat to the surrounding ceiling. Single wall pipe also burns out in as little as a few seasons.

How do you know if your fire will never get hotter than 500 degree's?

This is one spot you do not want to take a short cut.

What is your bus worth to you, how about your life?

Is $250 saved worth losing the bus, yourself or a loved ones life?

I have lived with a wood burning stove my whole life. Single wall pipe is just not worth using now that we have double wall with a air space. The double wall pipe here has a stainless steel, seamless inner pipe.

Stainless can take the heat of a chimney fire.

A single wall will get red hot, distort, pop the seam, and burn your place down, asphyxiating anyone inside.

The guy that you talked to never asked what stove you had, where it would be installed, what fuel you would use ect. He won't be around the stove, so what did he care. He really need to keep his mouth shut if he is not going to do his research first.

I use single wall pipe on my stove in the shed, but coal fires don't run away like wood fires. I also have a baffle in my stove, my stove is air tight and can smoother a fire to death if closed down completely. last there are no combustibles within 5 feet of the sides of the stove, and no combustibles in the ceiling at all. My shed is a steel can inside.

So, what is $250 worth to you?

Nat

[nat_ster]

Double wall pipe should come off the stove to a foot from the ceiling.

A foot from the ceiling the pipe should change to the stainless steel insulated double wall pipe.

Don't try to use a metal roof jack, they don't fit on bus roofs worth a $hit. Use a silicone flexible one that's made for metal roofing. They are good to around 1000 degree's.
Mine is laying by my bus waiting, I will snap a pic of it.

Pics of a proper wood stove chimney install can also be found in my thread called: "$hit I do for money". The mobile home I re roofed got a new chimney at the same time.

Nat

[taskswap]

I don't know about single-wall burning out in a few seasons. Nat, I think you chucking coal nuggets into your stove may have a wee somethin' to do with that. Around here it tends to rust out (stainless has only become common very recently). I've never seen it burn out.

But why return the double-wall? Yes, you can probably run anything you want. But the insulating factor is about more than just safety. As I noted in my long post above, it also greatly increases the performance of the flue (you should get better draft out of a shorter flue) and reduces creosote buildup.

Not to patronize but just in case nobody told you - you do know that with a chimney you want the "crimp" end of the pipe going DOWN into the one below it, right? That is, point each piece in the direction that "seems wrong because smoke might get out that way". It won't do that - the draft will keep the smoke in the chimney. But setting each upper pipe to go "down into" the one below it forces creosote to drip back down to the stove to be burned right away (as opposed to dripping OUT of the flue pipe which is incredibly dangerous).

With double-wall the crimp is actually a nesting ring that seals really well. I'm just saying this for any single-wall bits you may happen to use.

[nat_ster]

Before I changed my stove from a side discharge to a top discharge and added the baffle, the first 90 at the side of the stove would only last a season. The second pipe up would get changed every second season.

However, the stove was also shooting flame 3 feet out the short 8 foot chimney. There was also secondary combustion happening inside the pipe from the air leaks introducing more oxygen into the flue. The baffle changed all that.

This is the stove that heated my family home growing up. Dad changed many 90's on that stove. The stove never saw coal till I got it around 8 years ago.

The jack pine was much harder on the stove than the coal. It would burn out of control hot. Dad scared himself a few times with filling the house full of smoke and hot embers.

Nat

[maggiemae]

Absolutely, this is something we really don't want to short cut on. This and electrical wiring.
I guess it just got to me when he said that it was going to be unnecessary to spend the extra on the triple wall pipe (after I already bought it from the other guy).

[maggiemae]

I'm not sure about the single wall burning out either. I like to keep my fires at about 400 degrees, and I think at that temp, the pipe would last awhile. But that is a good point about the insullate dope being able to be shorter. How tall is yours taskswap?

Oh and it's not patronizing at all, I had to explain to justin how and why they fit together today too. I know I was confused when my dad taught me that awhile back. It is almost counterintuitive.

Taskswap, yours is 8 feet total?

[PDBreske]

Take it from someone who spent three months in the burn ICU and who will spend the better part of the next two years in operating rooms and physical therapy after a flash fire in a bus conversion: Do not f*ck around with fire.

[taskswap]

Yeah, Jack pine is crazy stuff. Any kind of pine burns like a torch. That makes sense now. I burn hemlock in the shoulder season and you really have to watch the stove. It's funny, with all the mis-information about softwood vs. hardwood, how people just assume that because it's pine it's not going to give off much heat!

Anyway, long story short, I was really trying to imply that you should treat fire with respect, but not undue fear. Once you're used to heating with wood, it's always on your mind - but like driving a car. You're careful. You pay attention. But your life doesn't have to revolve around it and you shouldn't surround your car with boat dock floats just to try to add some safety.

My 2c, such as it is: I'd keep the double-wall if you already have it. I wouldn't buy triple-wall. Definitely use rock-wool where necessary, but you can trust it and it'll be fine. Enjoy!

[nat_ster]

The first few words of the wood stove hand book still ring in my ears.

"Remember, you are building a fire inside your home"

I forgot to add that last night. lol.Nat

[maggiemae]

I got burnt when I was a kid. I used to have a huge fear of fire. To overcome my fear, I started dancing with fire poi. If anyone has the utmost respect for fire- it's me. Like I said, it's just hard to know what is "safe" with conflicting information.

I slept on it and were going to keep the pieces I got. Better safe than sorry. It's just one of those things that everyone has a different "opinion" about. With that kind of stuff, I suppose its better to err on the side of caution. Same with electricity.

As for today and the most recent update about the bus... We just got a bunch of free stuff from a really nice guy!
Here are some photos!
Black water tank:

Grey water tank:

Fresh? water tank:

Rv toilet:

Battery charger/ shore power box:

One of the hot water heaters (we pulled two):

Odds and ends: We had to snag that 40 year old coors coozie :P SCORE! (Also got two water pumps, yeah!)

Cushions:

The two stoves we pulled. (I think we might stick with the orange one and paint it. It came from the RV that was most recently used and it seems like a better stove.)




The guy was so nice, and we are so happy we scored all of this!
Onward, HO!!

[HolyBus]

Dang! That was a lucky find!

[bansil]

Originally Posted by PDBreske

Take it from someone who spent three months in the burn ICU and who will spend the better part of the next two years in operating rooms and physical therapy after a flash fire in a bus conversion: Do not f*ck around with fire.

PD I read that using Bill Murrays' voice ;)

General Barnicke: Where the hell have you been, soldier?
Winger: Traaaaaaaining, sir!
Soldiers: Training, sir!
Barnicke: What kind of training, son?
Winger: Aaaaaaarmy training, sir!
Soldiers: Army training, sir!
[laughter]
Barnicke: Where's your drill sergeant, men?
Winger: Blown up, sir!
Soldiers: Blown up, sir!
Capt. Stillman: Uhh, yes, sir, these are Sgt. Hulka's men. He was injured during basic training.
Barnicke: I see. So am I to understand you men completed your training on your own?
Winger: Tha's the fact, Jack!
Soldiers: That's the fact, Jack!
Barnicke: Captain, these are exactly the kind of go-getters I want on my EM-50 project.
Stillman: But, sir . . .
Barnicke: Don't "But" me, Captain. I want them on the plane. Tonight!
Winger: Gentlemen, it's party time...Italian style!

It made me laugh....I am glad your okay....thanks for warning and smiles

[maggiemae]

Well it's raining today.

I thought I got rid of all of the leaks. We just found water... Again.
Fortunately the insullation is easy to take out, and we didn't get too far on the wood. In fact, we took it all out to redo some insullation.

The bus didn't leak at all when it was parked at the previous owners house. We are thinking the moving of it has caused shifting of the panels, causing leakage.

I was bummed this morning, because we had so much planned for today. It's a good thing that it's raining, so we can address these new leaks. Plus, the ceiling is pretty much down, so we can find the leaks.

We haven't painted the top with reflective paint yet.

Does anyone have some good pointers for a good, sealing reflective paint? Or should we just caulk everything on the roof and then paint?

Anyone used or heard of this?
The review said he painted it on his RV roof.
http://m.acehardware.com//product/in...la=pla_8101126

[maggiemae]

Nat,
We got a metal roof jack. I couldn't find a rubber boot jack made for a wood stove application(they only had hvac), where did you get yours? (Also, I just read your other thread, that's so cool that your whole shop can run off solar, very impressive!)

Also you say you put a baffle in your stove. We picked up an imitation Jotul Black Bear, which I believe has what you are talking about. It has two chambers essentially. This is what I found online as to the way the air moves in the chamber. I'm not familiar with this type of wood stove, but from what I have read, it is a great stove. I need to regasket/recaulk it because I took the whole thing apart to "inspect" it. The gasketting was crappy anyways.


Here's the picture of that air flow I was talking about:

[taskswap]

That's a good stove, if the baffling is in order. The way these stoves work, you start a primary with the damper in the front (primary air) wide open. You need to get it hot for like 20 minutes. Then you start damping it down. When you get it fully damped down the only air coming in comes through the secondary tubes at the top. If you had a glass door it would look like this:



This type of system is twice (or more) as efficient as non-secondary-burn stoves. What happens is the wood doesn't actually burn directly as fuel. Instead, the high heat above it literally "cooks" the wood forcing it to release combustible gases. Those combine with high-temp air coming in through the secondaries and you get an effect kind of like an upside-down propane grill.

A good secondary system will give very long burn times and use half as much (or better) wood as older-style stoves. All new stoves are manufactured this way because they can't meet EPA regs without it. A lot of people bitch about that but I gotta tell you, I WAY prefer feeding a few pieces of oak to my new insert with secondaries each day over the literal WHEELBARROW my old wood boiler (without secondaries) sucks up every 2-4 hours. All day.

That said, the Jotul is a very small stove and as I think Nat has mentioned earlier, small fireboxes produce short burn times no matter how efficient they are. I have this exact stove if yours is anything like this:



I use it in my garage and we keep it mainly because it looks nice. We thought about putting it in the bus - and may, temporarily, just to save a few bucks. But we definitely plan to upgrade ASAP to something better like a Gray Mini CT 12. One thing you don't notice about these little Jotuls is you have to split the wood a lot smaller. The rear of the firebox is only like 9" high under those secondary tubes, and it's really hard to stack more than a piece or two high...

Love the looks tho.