Total weight and tow weight question!

[Roadschooldreamer143]

How do you know what your max weight can be for not just the skoolie but the weight of the trailer/car it will be towing? I'm assuming the weight my skoolie can be will be different when I add a car behind it

[turf]

not sure if im right or wrong, but this is what i went by.

weight rating of the front axle + the weight rating of the rear axle - the actual weight of the bus.

my bus was something like front 10,000 + the rear 18,000 = total 28,000. minus the bus so...rated for 28,000gvw - the scale weight 20,000 = 8000lbs to tow. i dont think you'd want to exceed the capabilty of the bus suspension.

like i said, not sure if its right or wrong.... just what i did.

[Roadschooldreamer143]

Originally Posted by turf

not sure if im right or wrong, but this is what i went by.

weight rating of the front axle + the weight rating of the rear axle - the actual weight of the bus.

my bus was something like front 10,000 + the rear 18,000 = total 28,000. minus the bus so...rated for 28,000gvw - the scale weight 20,000 = 8000lbs to tow. i dont think you'd want to exceed the capabilty of the bus suspension.

like i said, not sure if its right or wrong.... just what i did.

Thank you! It makes sense to me so well go with that until otherwise haha!

[ol trunt]

See if you can find a sticker on your bus that gives the "GCVW" rating. That is the maximum combined weight for the bus and any load including the trailer. The axle info will help you figure out how to distribute the load front to rear. You will also want to balance your load from side to side and although this info isn't on the weight sticker, you can weigh things you are putting in your bus on a bathroom scale and distribute accordingly. Jack

[Roadschooldreamer143]

Originally Posted by ol trunt

See if you can find a sticker on your bus that gives the "GCVW" rating. That is the maximum combined weight for the bus and any load including the trailer. The axle info will help you figure out how to distribute the load front to rear. You will also want to balance your load from side to side and although this info isn't on the weight sticker, you can weigh things you are putting in your bus on a bathroom scale and distribute accordingly. Jack

Very good layout advice thank you!

[Dapplecreek]

Originally Posted by ol trunt

See if you can find a sticker on your bus that gives the "GCVW" rating. That is the maximum combined weight for the bus and any load including the trailer. The axle info will help you figure out how to distribute the load front to rear. You will also want to balance your load from side to side and although this info isn't on the weight sticker, you can weigh things you are putting in your bus on a bathroom scale and distribute accordingly. Jack

Took a puddle-jumper plane once and they weighed the passengers, too: odd thing - everyone else was seated on the other side.

[jake_blue]

The weight of the towed vehicle is not necessarily on the bus axles but it will affect the powertrain and will need to be considered when installing a properly rated tow hitch. What you end up with is called the GCWR or gross combined weight rating which encompasses the bus the towed vehicle and even a trailer if you trailer to towed vehicle. A trailard towed vehicle is going to put some weight on the rear axle by virtue of the hitch but the trailer is designed to carry a majority of the vehicle weight so the tongue weight should be under a thousand pounds.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

I'll see if I can explain it.

GVWR - Gross Vehicle Weight Rating - This is how much weight the tires, suspension, frame, body, etc., are rated to carry. The weight on the tires, if you will.

GCWR - Gross Combination Weight Rating - This is how much the engine, transmission, axles, and brakes are rated to pull and stop. It's the weight of the bus, trailer, load, passengers, fuel, roller-bladers hanging onto the side, etc. It is typically higher than the GVWR.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

As an example, I drive a Volvo road tractor which has a 12,000 # steer axle and 40,000 # rears. By itself, it has a GVWR of 52,000 #. But I pull a heavy tank trailer with it, sometimes grossing 80,000 #. The trailer's axles carry (and help stop) the remaining weight. Our buses are not much different (just not as powerful).

[jake_blue]

Thanks, that's much more detailed than my explanation.

[BlueBirdman]

What you're concerned with is the tongue weight of the trailer times the leverage created by the distance from the hitch to the rear axle. It isn't likely to be a problem, but I would pull it across a scale with the trailer attached and get an axle by axle weight just to be sure.

Your towing capacity will likely be determined by your transmission's gross weight rating. As an example, Allison rates the AT545 at 30,000 gross. If you go by the book, most busses with a 545 shouldn't tow much weight at all.

The MT643 is rated for something like 45,000 gross in a school bus (and much more in other applications) so towing an enclosed trailer with a heavy vehicle inside wouldn't be a problem - weight wise, anyway.

If you're towing (no matter what transmission you have) I'd strongly suggest installing a dedicated transmission cooler, a transmission oil temp gauge, and switching to synthetic transmission fluid.

[jake_blue]

It's a RE AmTran, Allison MD3060. Pushers in my mind present an interesting paradox for towing - the drive axle is closest to the back end of the vehicle but sometimes the frame does not extend all the way to the back bumper, instead the engine compartment is a sub-frame assembly that may not provide as much towing capacity.

[ii_amnt]

Originally Posted by BlueBirdman

...

Your towing capacity will likely be determined by your transmission's gross weight rating. As an example, Allison rates the AT545 at 30,000 gross. If you go by the book, most busses with a 545 shouldn't tow much weight at all.

The MT643 is rated for something like 45,000 gross in a school bus (and much more in other applications) so towing an enclosed trailer with a heavy vehicle inside wouldn't be a problem - weight wise, anyway.

If you're towing (no matter what transmission you have) I'd strongly suggest installing a dedicated transmission cooler, a transmission oil temp gauge, and switching to synthetic transmission fluid.

Could you cater this advice to someone with a manual trans?

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Going by your signature - a DT466 with a 5-speed Spicer should be up to plenty of capacity. I don't have specs in front of me, but plenty of box trucks run a similar setup and have no problem 30K + pounds. You'll probably "run out of engine" before you exceed the transmission.

[Roadschooldreamer143]

Originally Posted by jake_blue

It's a RE AmTran, Allison MD3060. Pushers in my mind present an interesting paradox for towing - the drive axle is closest to the back end of the vehicle but sometimes the frame does not extend all the way to the back bumper, instead the engine compartment is a sub-frame assembly that may not provide as much towing capacity.

As long as we can get her to tow enough! We have a crv now which is pretty small for an SUV and after this we are either getting the smallest 6 passenger truck we can find or a mini van which will be pretty light...we plan to get an old beater can basically and just renovate it to look like the bus and paint "escape pod" on the side 😂 But the old ones are practically made of aluminum hahaha! They are just tin cans! So I think she'll be ok with somethin like that on a dolly.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Hard to know what setup your RE bus has without a good look or photo. The engine and trans should be up to it, can't say about the frame without more to go on. The way I see it, these full length buses are designed to haul around 50-60 kids, and most of us don't haul this much weight, so as far as the engine and transmission goes, towing a 4,000 pound minivan (plus dolly) shouldn't be a problem.