Toy Hauler Conversion

[lapeer20m]

Originally Posted by busone

So I take it most don't heat the whole tank of oil just a section of the line going to the injector pump?

that is incorrect. Almost all successful wvo conversions have a heated tank. Heating a section of line going to the IP can decrease the amount of time the engine has to run on diesel before switching to veggie.

heating a section of fuel line with electricity is only used as supplemental heat, not primary in every system i have seen.

Most systems do not use any sort of electric heat on the fuel line. I burned over 1,000 gallons of wvo in my bus without any sort of electric heat.

I would agree that it would take a long time to heat 300 gallons of fuel to proper temperature. Perhaps you can have 250 gallons of non-heated oil (or slightly heated)in one tank, and a smaller heated tank of perhaps 50 gallons.

It will take nearly an hour of driving on diesel to heat 300 gallons of oil to a suitable temperature with engine coolant. That's assuming you have a large heater core (or small radiator) SUBMERGED in the oil. As an example...it takes me almost an hour of driving to raise the temperature of the 400 gallons of jacuzzi water 50 degrees. I use the old rear bus heater core to heat my water.

Heating with 110 volt shore power for a peroid of time prior to starting can reduce the amount of time an engine runs on diesel. Heating with electricity 24/7 would be a big waste of energy. Heating 300 gallons of oil seems like it would not be the most efficient way of doing things.

[busone]

I would like to try using the water cooled condenser coil before heatng the whole oil tank. I worry about liability if I got in an accident and deep fried somebody. As well as how long it would take to heat up. I bet a coil designed for a 2 ton A/C unit would work. If the water cooled condenser coil does not work I will look at the second tank idea. Of course this will be a long time off since I don't have a bus yet. I don't like electric heat either it is just too expensive and inefficent.

[cogyfarm]

Why use your idea ONLY for gray water? Couldn't it work for black and fresh also? I know in a 55 gallon drum, if you supply just 5lbs of pressure with the valve open you get a tremendous amount of water out of it. I've done it! One of those itsy bitsy car air compressors that cost less the $10 does the trick. Heck the pistons about the size of a thimble.

I'm having to resort to rubbermaid all the way around for this attempt. I figure on the fresh I'll either suck the water out of it OR pressurize it on demand only.

I'm thinking to keep shore water from "blowing out the seals" I could install one of those "y" connectors thats switches one or both sides on/off and use that to turn the tank off when connected to shore water.

I'd really appreciate any feedback on this before I get too far along. We'll be using the rubbermaid 50gallon square tanks.

Also I foudn out that lowes sells a 26 gallon "moving tote" for $17 rated at 500 lbs. Thats far more then is necessary. It's made by "glacier living"

Troy

[Ryan Grimm]

The way most RV systems work is to use a semi-pressurized system...in other words, the fresh tanks are gravity-feed to a pump that keeps the system pressurized constantly. The pump is usually right next to the fresh supply tank.
When you open a valve in the sink or shower, the pressure drops and a small switch on the pump senses the drop; that starts the pump to restore pressure. As long as the pressure doesn't stay at a high preset level, it runs the pump.
When you shut off the water, the system pressure builds up and shuts off the pump.

NOTE: shutting down the pump at night is a good idea (install a kill switch), as it can start up from time to time to repressurize a slow backflow leak, and that can be VERY annoying when taking a nap.

The only time you don't use the pump is when you are on shore water (with a freshwater hose hookup).
Between the shore hookup and the pressurized side of the pump is a check valve; this prevents water backfilling to the tank (and overflowing).
I believe that most pumps have a backflow check valve to prevent backfilling towards the shore connection when you are boondocking.

BTW, it's a VERY GOOD IDEA to use as few sharp right-angle bends as possible in the fresh plumbing: the small pumps available only push so many CFM at a time, and any bend or restriction adds friction and slows the flow. Use continuous PEX tubing as much as possible.
IIRC, one 90 degree bend is equivalent to adding 10 feet of tubing to the run, and that's a LOT of restriction. If at all possible, make sweeping turns with the tubing instead of using elbows and such.
And use the next size larger diameter tubing if possible, this will also help with flow restrictions. Heck, use the largest tubing you can get, say 3/4 inch.

This wil give you more flow and an apparent higher volume of water for showers, rinsing dishes, etc.

================
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: gray water tank

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Why use your idea ONLY for gray water? Couldn't it work for black and fresh also? I know in a 55 gallon drum, if you supply just 5lbs of pressure with the valve open you get a tremendous amount of water out of it. I've done it! One of those itsy bitsy car air compressors that cost less the $10 does the trick. Heck the pistons about the size of a thimble.

I'm having to resort to rubbermaid all the way around for this attempt. I figure on the fresh I'll either suck the water out of it OR pressurize it on demand only.

I'm thinking to keep shore water from "blowing out the seals" I could install one of those "y" connectors thats switches one or both sides on/off and use that to turn the tank off when connected to shore water.

I'd really appreciate any feedback on this before I get too far along. We'll be using the rubbermaid 50gallon square tanks.

Also I foudn out that lowes sells a 26 gallon "moving tote" for $17 rated at 500 lbs. Thats far more then is necessary. It's made by "glacier living"

Troy

[trx]

Originally Posted by cogyfarm

Why use your idea ONLY for gray water? Couldn't it work for black and fresh also?

The reason I didn't use it for fresh water is that they are not rated for fresh water use. Typically any colored plastic is not considered 'food safe' so who knows what stuff will enter the water if left sitting long enough. It would probably work for black water if you can connect a drain they use on black water tanks.

Originally Posted by cogyfarm

I know in a 55 gallon drum, if you supply just 5lbs of pressure with the valve open you get a tremendous amount of water out of it. I've done it! One of those itsy bitsy car air compressors that cost less the $10 does the trick. Heck the pistons about the size of a thimble.

I was first going to pressurize my fresh water tank with air but I decided not to. On a half or almost empty tank it would probably take a long time to build back up pressure one it has been depleted. Small air compressors don't move much air. I didn't want to hear a compressor running forever or get cut short on a shower. My water pump and 4 gallon pressure tank works great, good pressure and reduced pump cycle times.

That reminds me I should be out flushing my fresh water tank right now instead of being on here. Four days until I leave on my first trip for the year.

Chad

[trx]

The governor should be on the top of the engine between the heads. Directly behind it (and below the intake) is the injector pump. Personally I wouldn't mess with the governor. I have no idea how to adjust it but I do have a parts book for the engine. It's probably setup to run 2800-3000 RPM and I don't think 8.2's like to run any faster without out risking damage. If you want more speed I would look into getting taller gears in the differential. Mine runs up to 63 MPH (more happily at 60) and I've always wanted to get a little taller gears so I can run 65 and not be so far up in RPM's.

Chad

[trx]

Ever since I purchased my but it has leaned to one side. Looking at the springs it seemed they were sagging (one side more so than the other). Since the drivers side sat about 2" lower than the passenger side, it was quite visible and really bugged me. To fix it I decided to replace the springs. I weighed the bus so I knew how much weight the rear axle held when fully loaded so I could get a set a springs to work good with the weight of my bus. I also figured I could get even lighter weight springs and add air springs to handle the extra weight when my bus was loaded with my Scout. This would hopefully give me a little bit better ride (empty and maybe loaded).

Well in May I went ahead and bought the new springs and with the help of a friend and his auto repair shop, we swapped in the new ones. The best time saver was using a drive- on lift to raise the back of the bus. I don't want to know how much longer it would have taken using bottle jacks. For how far we had to raise and lower the bus I'm not sure if my bottle jacks would have even worked.

After the last spring was in, we lowered the bus to the ground only to still see a bus that still leaned to the drives side. It wasn't a good feeling after spending $700! We checked and double checked things over with a tape measure and concluded the must have a bent frame. There's really no way we could have known before the swap since you can't actually see that the frame is bent. If you are wondering, the drivers side of the bus should not be heavier. At this time it should have been lighter.

Drivers Side:
Battery Bank (200+ lbs)
Hot water heater (empty)
Water tank (empty)
Gas refrigerator, kitchen cabinets

Passenger side:
Fuel tank w/60 gallons of fuel
Furnace
Booth
Couch/Bed & bunk

So, how could the frame be bent? We'll you never know what sort of life a bus had during it's 'school' days but I do have possible evidence and a good guess. On the rear of the bus there was short 'sub frame' (for lack of better words) that was welded to the existing frame to attach two large tow hooks below the bumper. The drivers side of this frame was bent. This is not light weight steel so it couldn't have been easy to do this and the bus must have been pulled on with some force. Now image this possible scenario: It's a snowy morning in northern Minnesota and the driver of this bus happens to slide off the road. How do you pull it out? Use the rear tow hooks! Where is the back of the bus? Probably up in the air if only the front-end is in the ditch. If it's high enough and you pulled on a tow hook you would also be pulling down on the frame while pulling the bus out. Pull hard enough and what could happen? Bent frame... My bus is pretty long, around 10-11' of overhang past the rear axle so you can get pretty good leverage from the rear of the bus. Of course this is just guess and who knows what really happened to it.

Now what? I can try to add a 'lift block' to the drivers side to compensate.

Want to see pictures?
http://trx.punknet.org/Gallery/Skoolie2006Springs

Chad

[captainkf]

That stinks man. What about taking it to a frame alignment shop that can accomidate commerical vehicles? I have seen school bus's at the one in town here? It might be costly but between the wear and tear on tires and all the other things associated with this sort of thing it may be a viable option. Keep us posted on what you intend to do. -Richard

[trx]

If I knew it was bent before I sure would have taken it to a frame shop to see what could be done. Of course now, I've already spent more money than I should have and spending more isn't really an option. I'm pretty sure the bus runs straight, friends & family that have followed me have never said anything. I don't suspect I'll have any tire wear issues. The cheap option now is to add a spacer between the drivers spring and the axle to raise that side back up.

The other thing I did after the spring replacement was the addition of air springs to the rear axle. This is because part of my plan was to buy lighter springs for a better ride and use the air springs when hauling my Scout. The springs are in and they seem to work fine. In the process I also verified that the bus does not need rear shocks! No shocks and still no bounce. Those big springs must have enough resistance of their own. If you are wondering, the air springs were unable to compensate for the lean. They only hold 2600 lbs. each and they way they are currently setup doesn't allow them to provide much lift. You can see installation pictures here:

http://trx.punknet.org/Gallery/Skoolie2006Air

Chad Urvig

[hoser]

Originally Posted by trx

If I knew it was bent before I sure would have taken it to a frame shop to see what could be done. Of course now, I've already spent more money than I should have and spending more isn't really an option. I'm pretty sure the bus runs straight, friends & family that have followed me have never said anything. I don't suspect I'll have any tire wear issues. The cheap option now is to add a spacer between the drivers spring and the axle to raise that side back up.

The other thing I did after the spring replacement was the addition of air springs to the rear axle. This is because part of my plan was to buy lighter springs for a better ride and use the air springs when hauling my Scout. The springs are in and they seem to work fine. In the process I also verified that the bus does not need rear shocks! No shocks and still no bounce. Those big springs must have enough resistance of their own. If you are wondering, the air springs were unable to compensate for the lean. They only hold 2600 lbs. each and they way they are currently setup doesn't allow them to provide much lift. You can see installation pictures here:

http://trx.punknet.org/Gallery/Skoolie2006Air

Chad Urvig

Looking at your pics of fthe springs your new springs have the same reverse sag of my springs (orignal) is this reverse sag normal or is it because of the lighter springs?

[trx]

Originally Posted by hoser

Looking at your pics of fthe springs your new springs have the same reverse sag of my springs (orignal) is this reverse sag normal or is it because of the lighter springs?

At first I thought that was an indication of a sagging spring. I guess that's how these springs are suppose to sit. The pictures of the new springs were taken when the bus was empty so they were below their load rating by at least 3000-4000 lbs.

Chad

[trx]

Ok, it's been a year...time for an update.....

Over the winter I built new kitchen cabinets for the bus. It was something I always wanted to do and finally took the plunge. I only have basic wood working skills and not much in the area of cabinet making so this was a new challenge for me. It was also a challenge with the limited wood working tools I have. Not only did I want the cabinets to look nice, I wanted to keep costs down and also weight. Sometimes the bus hauls some pretty big loads so I try to save weight in other areas as much as possible. To do this I built them out of Pine (frames) and 1/4" Birch plywood (panels). I probably spent almost as much money on the sink and the Formica for the countertop as I did for the lumber.

My primary tool to building them was a free table saw that I re-powered with a circular saw: http://trx.punknet.org/gallery2/main...2_itemId=15072
The other tools I used was a cheap compound slide miter saw ($100), cheap drill press ($40), drill, belt sander, etc. I do not have a router (yet).

Here a couple pictures:

Completed/Unfinished:


Installed:


I also build under-floor storage which has been very useful:


To see all the pictures the project starts here: http://trx.punknet.org/gallery2/main...2_itemId=10473 and then continues here: http://trx.punknet.org/gallery2/main...2_itemId=10552

Next? Good question. Either finishing the 'garage' so we can use it as a master bedroom when parked or giving the drivers area a makeover. I also need to finish my paint job on the outside. My current priority is to fix a dragging front brake problem since I can't drive it until that is fixed.

Chad

[trx]

Not much to report...been busy using the bus this summer. I did just added eyebrows/eyelids to the front:

Before:


After:


It's 7" wide vinyl I had put on at my cousins sign business. Now it just needs some eyes

I also fixed my dragging brakes problem a few weeks ago, replaced both front calipers and rubber lines. I also needed to buy a replacement hub cap (not that easy to find).

I found some great 12 volt fans to use in the bus:



They are only $11 at Walmart. I purchased two. I'm going to figure how to mount one in my roof vent. I use the power jack on the side with a cigarette plug to power it off my battery bank.

Chad

[DizzyIzzy]

You have hella cool set up. I just went through and read and looked at all your hard work. Very nice. I pulled 2 rows of seats out of mine last night. So I have a long way to go. 2 thumbs up for your bus.

[hoser]

Originally Posted by trx

Not much to report...been busy using the bus this summer. I did just added eyebrows/eyelids to the front:

Before:


After:


It's 7" wide vinyl I had put on at my cousins sign business. Now it just needs some eyes

I also fixed my dragging brakes problem a few weeks ago, replaced both front calipers and rubber lines. I also needed to buy a replacement hub cap (not that easy to find).

I found some great 12 volt fans to use in the bus:



They are only $11 at Walmart. I purchased two. I'm going to figure how to mount one in my roof vent. I use the power jack on the side with a cigarette plug to power it off my battery bank.

Chad

Nice, I was going to limo tint mine down about 12" driving into the sun is brutal as the sun is setting lol I still have the factory smoked visor thing but its really too small I ended up hainging a magazine on it for extra coverage.

[KC10Chief]

I tinted some eyebrows on my bus. Pretty easy to do on flat glass. The window tint from Wal-Mart works great and one roll would be more than enough to do both windshields. If you really want to do it right, take the windshields out and tint them that way. My windows are somewhat easy to get out. Just don't drop them. Then you'll be sorry!

[Abbott]

Your conversion is one of the buses that finally convinced me to convert my own bus. I really liked the "Motorhome" look of your conversion. I sure appreciate the time some of you guys have used to post your work, photos and notes, up on the Web. That and this Website have been and continue to be a great asset! I should have my bus weathered in and ready for storage for much of the winter in the next few days. I am hanging the last couple pieces of sheet metal today and I will get some photos up within the next week or so.

Very nice looking cabinets!

[Mark_In_MA]

I know this is an old thread, but do you have any current pictures of your build?
Sounds like it was pretty cool.

[Busmanmoab]

I see a lot of old posts and also wonder what there up to ? tried getting onto the old pics and could not get in , Have any left ?Hate to see the cool rigs sitting idol