Trusted Compass Bus

[trustedcompass]

After using this site as a reference guide for so long I thought it only proper that I post here. That and I am getting to the point where I will need to ask some specific questions and maybe even get some good advice.

I have a 1972 GMC Carpenter with a rear engine 8.2L Detroit Diesel and 5 speed Manual Transmission with Air Brakes. It came with an Onan 6.5 generator and two air conditioning units installed. It is a great bus that was previously owned by a church in Tennessee. The motor was added back in 1988 according to paperwork, as was generator and air conditioners. The biggest negative about this bus was how inactive it was. Tires have cracks from 'dry rot'. Clutch crumbled early on, probably from same thing. I am concerned about brakes. I am pretty sure I found this bus because someone posted a craigslist listing on this site of this very bus. It is 30 ft long. Perfect midsize bus for my purpose.
I purchased my bus back in April 2009. I moved all my stuff into it with plans to fix it up at a friend's house and then live in it fulltime. Well, I immediately started living in it fulltime when things went wrong. I have been slowly fixing it up ever since.
I started a blog back in July to document the process. http://<font color="#FF0000">http://...pot.com</font>I didn't choose this forum because my intention was to document my life fulltiming instead of just focusing on building the bus. It has been a challenge fixing it up while living in it. Not ideal but I think it is turning out pretty good. I am at a stage where I will be hitting the road soon and I want to get plumbing installed. I don't even have all my lined up yet. I just wanted to hop online and make my introductions. You guys have really helped me without even realizing you were. I appreciate it.
I'll be back later with some specific questions and thoughts.

[dburt]

There's nothing like jumping in and learning to swim while you are swimming! But when it's sink or swim, you can be suprised how quickly you can learn to swim after all! Will look forward to see more pictures and progress on your project!

[Seeria]

Love the blog and details.

I've one request Make your posts smaller. Break them up into separate ones. Details are great. Info is nice. Stories and sharing experience rocks. Reading super long posts... not so much.

That fog issue you have on the windows when driving. I get the same in an old mercury of mine which requires I keep a decent air flow coming in, at least 1/2 an inch crack from one of the windows near the windshield. Not sure how much would be needed for a bus, given size.

[trustedcompass]

Originally Posted by Seeria

Love the blog and details.

I've one request Make your posts smaller. Break them up into separate ones. Details are great. Info is nice. Stories and sharing experience rocks. Reading super long posts... not so much.

That fog issue you have on the windows when driving. I get the same in an old mercury of mine which requires I keep a decent air flow coming in, at least 1/2 an inch crack from one of the windows near the windshield. Not sure how much would be needed for a bus, given size.

Too funny! I do tend to get a little wordy sometimes. Especially my last post where I got a little preachy sounding. Good tip, I will break up the posts by subject matter. I'm new to the blogging world, and the only thing I know is people like pictures, so feedback is useful to me.

The condensation is manageable when I open the side window, squeegee the glass, wipe the glass off with a paper towel, apply rubbing alcohol with another paper towel (to aid in evaporation), dry again, and get under way before condensation returns leaving the window cracked. As long as I am driving and keeping the airflow coming in the window it seems to work. I freeze, but I can see. Passenger side Windshield takes longer to equalize with the outside temperature. This works but I will continue to research a better, more efficient way.

[trustedcompass]

Originally Posted by dburt

There's nothing like jumping in and learning to swim while you are swimming! But when it's sink or swim, you can be suprised how quickly you can learn to swim after all! Will look forward to see more pictures and progress on your project!

It seems like that should be a personal mantra of mine. I have definitely taken the plunge.

[trustedcompass]

Originally Posted by Smitty

You need to be extremely cautious with that kero heater, sounnds like you've already had a couple encounters with it. That (kero heater) is part of your condensation problem, due to the fact it's unvented. You should look into a vented LP heater, would eliminate some problems/dangers. A small fan blowing on the windshield would help, though I can't recall what you mentioned was the problem with the bus defrost system, but I would fix that as well.

Condensation that isn't prevented will lead to lots of holes if left unchecked. You need to prevent the warm air from the glass (since it's single-pane windshield). You might even insulate the outside of the glass as well when you're parked. Get a couple pieces of styrofoam the size of the glass & stop the wipers in the up position to hold them in place.

Nice lookin' bus!

Smitty

Thanks for the Input. I do understand the dangers of using this heater. I take as many precautions as I can given my circumstances (smoke/carbon monoxide detector, not using the heater while sleeping or driving) but the simple fact is that it is my only heat source and with the lows hanging out in the 20's the next few days I have to use it. I would love to have vented LP heater or even some electric heater I could run off my genny, but I make do with what I have to work with. Just living by my wits.
The problem with my defroster is that I have a rear engine bus and I removed all hoses and heaters leading from the engine to the front of the bus when I was gutting the interior. Not an easy fix since I threw away basically a vintage heater/defroster unit even if I could find affordable replacement hoses. I did this over the summer when I wasn't fully focused on winter time repercussions. But then again my plan was to be camping out in the deserts of Arizona by winter time. I've got superman hindsight vision.
I will look into insulating the exterior as well, as soon as I get a chance. Right now, urban camping (walmarts, etc) makes that prohibitive.

I've read many of your posts over the past year. They've been helpful. I may have to re-visit some. Right now internet is a rare luxury so I don't get as much leisurely surfing time as I would like.

Something that isn't a priority but I want to do is fabricate something to make my solar panels hinged and swivel so I can maximize effectiveness. Any ideas or thread links would be most appreciated.

[Sojakai]

I have thoughts on this Solar Mount...

The bottom is square but has rollers that face upwards. The upper is round with a pivot point in the middle and has a square crossbraceing inside it for the pivot and the Solar Platform to mount to. The solar platform on top is what lifts the panels to the desired angle (30 degrees?). There is a permanent hinge on the bottom and a set of bars on the side with slits up the sides that the locking bolt slides through, twist the handle tight to lock it in place. The circular framing should have holes in it every couple of inches or feet and a locking pin that can be dropped into place to prevent it from spinning. The wiring should probably go down through the middle of the center pivot so it doesn't bind up, and a limiter should be used to prevent the top from being spun around and damaging the cords.

Just think of those 70's style spinning beds, with a frame on top that lifts up at an angle for the best lighting of the panels.

I should warn though, I figure to mount three panels wide and one panel going across the top to form a square about the width of the bus at the front, middle, or back of the bus...why waist space? I figure front is better, that way you can climb up in back and just walk up front to it if your putting a roof deck...but my idea was to make the bottom part attached to the deck frame. ^.^

[trustedcompass]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Instead of "rotating" the panels, it may be easier to make 4-way mounts (L-brackets with pin-release) to allow them to tilt in any direction. Mount your panels onto one "frame", and tilt them all as one unit, which will also eliminate shading from the other panels.

You might look into an automotive heater core. You'd have to build a box/ducting for it to reconnect to your defroster outlets, but could do it from wood, and maybe some larger (3") shop vac hose. Of course you'd have to add a 12v blower motor, but could salvage it from the same vehicle the heater core came from...then you'd need to run engine coolant to the heater core. I'm not sure about any type of 12v electric heater that could run from the vehicles battery, and serve the same purpose, to supply heat into the defroster ducts.

Smitty

Mounting the solar panels with 4-way mounts may be the easiest. My original engineering plan was to mount all three panels to a thick (low gauge) piece of stainless steel, hinge that to another equal size square of stainless steel. On the bottom of the bottom square I was going to bolt a Lazy Susan swivel that connected to the bus. In theory, I would be able to tilt and swivel panels to desired location when parked. Two problems with this design, curvature of the roof prevents nice flush mounting of Lazy Susan and I would still have to bracket the 4 corners to prevent the wind from ripping the solar panels off the roof while driving. I am all for mounting the three panels as one. You mentioned the L brackets held by a pin...I want something that is sturdy, quick release, and prevents rattle or movement. Closest I have seen so far is bolt and wing nut. http://...ZQQGM0U

[Redbear]

Originally Posted by Sojakai

I have thoughts on this Solar Mount...

The solar platform on top is what lifts the panels to the desired angle (30 degrees?).

The rule of thumb for panel elevation is your latitude adjusted by +/- 15° year-round. As the SF Bay area is about 38° north, that would be 23° in June, 38° in March and September, and 52° in December. For a fixed site in the frozen north, if you are not going to move panels several times a year, set the panels to the December setting and leave them. The December days of shorter hours of insolation and longer hours of lighting are critical. Plus, the taller angle will shed snow better. The longer hours of sunlight will make up for most of the efficiency losses the rest of the year.

When planning tiltable panels for a bus, it is easier if you plan to always face the bus in one direction, so the racks only have to tilt up one way. I am leaning toward designing my bus to park facing west. (That also presents a smaller profile to prevailing winds.) In some campgrounds, you may not have a choice. In the desert or on a beach, it may not be an issue.

There are pole-mount "tracking" racks that follow the sun from east to west every day. People in the industry I've talked to say "keep it simple, stupid" and just aim all the panels due south. They say add an extra panel with the money saved not buying the tracker frame if you really want those few extra watts.

I made a spreadsheet for Eastern New York creating insolation averages based on (Naval Observatory?) records. It showed a panel on a properly tilted tracker would get a maximum of 10% more insolation in December compared to a stationary one facing due south. In July, the tracker advantage peaks at 30%, but there is already 120% more power received each day than in December. I personally would expect designing a tracker for a bus roof would not be worth the trouble. If you made one, the power consumption or labor to keep it pointed correctly plus the extra maintenance would not be worth the trouble.

[trustedcompass]

Sojakai, I like the detailed reasoned thinking behind this. Some other issues with this come to mind. 1) I will not always be at liberty to park facing the most desirable direction...keeping the bus level when boondocking takes precedence. 2) My current harbor freight panels are only 45 watts, total. I am trying to tweak out what I can from them until I can upgrade, hopefully soon. 3) All is null in my current not so stealthy urban camping in parking lots. Even the hinges would not be able to be utilized. But this is only temporary. 4) As the sun arcs across the sky in the summer, are you saying just having them tilted will be beneficial instead of tracking the sun's progression? I understand that it would be labor intensive moving the panels to track the sun and I want them to have a nice efficiency/labor balance. My plans are to boondock in an area for 2 weeks at a time, where raised solar panels are not intrusive.

This brings me to another important issue for me. Rooftop access. Unlike many newer buses that have a nifty roof escape, mine does not. Last night I entertained the thought of cutting one into the roof at the rear of the bus over the engine. I could access the roof, maintain solar panels and air conditioning units. Plus I could dream about installing a small deck up there...down the road. Like alot of people, I don't like the idea of cutting a hole in my bus but if I could do so it would also be able to provide the bus with a much needed vent. Useful to keeping bus cool in the Summer time.
Considerations for this...Where do I find the framing hardware to do this? Is it something I could fabricate? It would have to be weather proof, of course. This means I want it to be insulated but ideally also a skylight. It would have to be big enough for me to climb through. I want to keep it as simple as possible to prevent any problems and preferably with materials easily obtained. Ideas welcome. I had purchased an RV ladder but due to my barn doors engine access and flip up rear window I have all but abandoned that idea for roof access. I want to keep the exterior aesthetics pure, that is why I chose not to skin over exterior windows.

[trustedcompass]

Originally Posted by Iceni John

I plan on having a walkway along the spine of the roof, all the way from the front escape/vent hatch to the rear hatch (I'm guessing that's about 25 to 30 feet), and attaching all my solar panels to the edge of this walkway. They will be hinged to the walkway, allowing them to be raised up 45 degrees or more from their outer edges above the windows.

I've heard that dust/bugs/etc can make a significant difference to the panels' operating efficiency.

TrustedCompass, I would recommend at least one roof vent or hatch, for ventilation purposes and for an emergency exit, plus it will give you easy access to the roof without needing an RV-type ladder hanging off the back (which would also give other less-desirable members of society easy access to your expensive solar panels, or worse). Ask at any local bus barns or truck wrecking yards if they have any used hatches; if you are near the coast there may be a surplus yachting supplies place with used marine hatches that will probably be more watertight that any truck/bus hatches.

John, always hatching plans for his bus

My thinking exactly on another reason why I don't want an external ladder. In addition to temptation for kids and liability issues.

I like the surplus boat hatch idea. I clearly want to have the hatch in hand before I start cutting open the roof. And finding an existing hatch will be far easier. I am not exactly close to the coast, about 4 hours, but the south is full of boating enthuisaists, coastal and lake. And I have seen tons of 'junk' boats in my searches for RV parts. I may need to consider other parts as well. At one time I thought of using the swivel seat of a bass boat, the kind they fish from at the front of the boat, to make swiveling solar panels.

I am heading to Nashville for my brother's wedding Jan 15 and it will represent my first leg on my trip west. Can anybody give me tips on Skoolie salvage yards in the South (It would be great to find another 1972 GMC Carpenter or similar Body that I can harvest some parts off. Ideas where to find relatively inexpensive bus tires (my sidewalls are cracked from lack of use and baking in the sun while parked in the church parking lot). Thoughts on purchasing retreads to replace my tires? Where can I find new, clean 75-100 gallon drinking water tank? I may have to suck it up and buy one online and have it shipped to my brother's. One the biggest challenges of being so off the grid is that I don't have a mailing address. I plan on using my brother's in Tennessee but that will be for low cost small postage items like regular mail.
Alot has been made of WVO conversions and I will be looking into that more seriously soon. I have two 'saddle bag' type gas tanks under the bus (think big rig) that are 50 gallons each with a fuel line connecting them so that when one tank is filled is (slowly) goes into the other also until they are even. I could separate one for WVO purposes. My biggest concern would be collecting and filtering WVO myself. It has been awhile since I read that forum. I will reread it closer to when I make that addition. But before I invest time and energy to that area, could anyone tell me if it is worth the trouble for a nomadic fulltimer to collect/filter/store large enough quantities to justify initial financial investment.

[Redbear]

Originally Posted by trustedcompass

are you saying just having them tilted will be beneficial instead of tracking the sun's progression? I understand that it would be labor intensive moving the panels to track the sun and I want them to have a nice efficiency/labor balance.

I said east/west tracking gives up to a 10% gain in winter, and up to 30% in summer when the noon sun is higher and there are extra hours to track at dawn and dusk on the horizon. In many opinions it's not worth climbing up on the roof every 1/2 hour for the extra power.

I had forgotten that around midsummer, the extra energy collected by a horizontal panel at dawn and dusk offsets the slight loss at noon compared to a tilted panel, and produces a slightly higher daily total unless a tracker is used. This means buses used only in summer really need not worry about tilting the panels at all. Buses traveling south of the border toward the equator in winter probably don't need to worry much, either.

My actual figures for 43° north, compiling a 30-year average (1961-1990) in kilowatt-hours per day impacting a one square meter panel:

0° (flat/horizontal), best for May (tie w/28°)through July without a tracker:
December: 1.41 kWh; July: 6.06 kWh; Yearly average: 3.79 kWh;
28° (summer noon), best for April through August:
December: 2.10 kWh; July 5.97 kWh; Yearly average: 4.29 kWh;
43° (average/latitude), best for March, September, October:
December: 2.35 kWh; July 5.54 kWh; Yearly average 4.28 kWh;
58° (winter noon), best for October (tie w/43°) through February:
December: 2.49 kWh; July 4.83 kWh; Yearly average 4.20 kWh;

90° (vertical facing due south), for when there is no other way to mount panels:
December: 2.36 kWh; July 2.77 kWh Yearly average 2.98 kWh
East-West tracker, Improves as much as 30% in summer
December @ 58°: 2.74 kWh; July @ 28°: 7.74 kWh; Yearly average @ 43° 5.37 kWh;
2-axis tracker, best anytime:
December: 2.76 kWh; July 7.88 kWh; Yearly average 5.55 kWh.

Note that this is the power hitting the panel face, not the power going out into the wires. Photovoltaic arrays are between 9% and 21% efficient, with the average being about 15%. So figure 150 watts output for every kilowatt from the table above. Panels to heat hot water or hot air are more efficient, well over 40% if I recall.

To figure how much actual power you will store in a day, if using an MPPT charge controller multiply the rated panel wattage times the number above. If using a simple controller that disconnects the panels when the battery shows a full charge voltage, multiply the panel short circuit current rating (Isc) times the actual battery voltage times the number above.

[Sojakai]

Ok, I think my idea wasnt explained as well as I should have...

Small scale with household items for easy understanding... Take a Lazy Susan, a standard door hinge, and a square board about the same size as the Lazy Susan. Mount the Hinge to the Susan, and the board to the hinge, keeping the hinge in the center of one edge of the board so it can tilt up. Use a prop stick to hold the board up at the angle you want, turn the susan to face the direction you want.

No matter how you are parked, you can raise the panels to the angle needed and then twist them to the proper direction. Mounting them all in one spot means less wire run for panels and you can have the whole thing set up in less than 5 minutes. If you use two rectangular or square bars on the sides with slide slots up the facing sides, the panels can have those bolts that use the spin handle to tighten down and hold them in place.


Doing very similar to this, only mounting more panels together into One Big Panel that raises up, and mounting it on a swivel that you can lock in place so it wont spin when you dont want it to. I'm sure you could mount a motor to it to track, but it would have to be computer controlled or you might twist till your wires break.

It might just be my visual thinking, but its very close to how they make the R2-D2 heads spin.

[Sojakai]

True, the swivel can rust, but you can just replace it as needed. And, the solar panels are locked together in the same method that they are normally locked together, by little tabs that are connect to the ends of the adjoining panels. You can use several pieces of square aluminum tubing to make the frame that the panels mount onto, or just use the normal angle aluminum that most installers use and comes in Multi-Panel install kits. My idea has alot less wiring also. Meaning, your not running a set of wires times the number of locations to the combiner box, but combining all the panels at one location and running a single cord. From what I have been reading, you normally put the wires from each panel into a combiner box then the cord from there to your main power box.

I kinda like the idea of the 4way tilt mount, and it would be great if most places had their parking so that the sun was sure to come from one of those precise directions. My idea is more heavy duty. Gas struts or an electric motor could help with weight, but most people can lift one end of 4 panels, being close to the weight of a small child. Plus, that guys hinges are going to be rust covered within several months. If properly lubricated during manufacturing, the swivel bearings will last years without problem. I planned for years of service with minimal replacement, and it should last for the life of the bus... needed to be replaced at the same time, ten or 15 years down the road.

[trustedcompass]

I like all the feedback. My ADHD is clearly evident in the way I tackle projects and is probably why I hadn't utilized this board before. By the time I post a question, I have changed the priority on another project and am focusing my energy on that. Ok, here is where I currently stand...I am going to my remote work location where I can work on the bus. I am wrapping up some loose ends based on what materials I have handy. Anybody remember the MacGyver TV series, that's sums up my bus building mentality.
I wish I had pictures and an inventory list with me, I am sure it would spark somebody's imagination on how I could use them. I have: 5x8 Oriental floor rug, about 100 ft of 3/4" aluminum poles that were from several different wedding type tents, Various pieces of wood, Plywood, different sizes furring strips, quarter round, and so much more.
One project I know I will be doing:
Solar Panels- I have 4 low profile stainless 3-hole hinges and matching 'L' brackets. I have 4 3ft pieces of aluminum angle iron, it is 1/2in. My plan is to frame up the three panels with the aluminum angles to provide support. I will screw the angles to the side of the panels, careful not to break panels or cut wires. Then I take the panels and screw hinges into the aluminum angle. I will have to figure configuration of hinge placement to be most effective. I'll have to eyeball it to do that. After that I will mount stainless 'L' brackets to bus. These aren't true 'L' brackets, they are more 2.5in angled aluminum with pre-cut holes drilled that match hinge alignment. Once these are mounted, I will connect hinged panels to them. I will have to worry about getting the strips of metal that will support the panels in the raised position at a later time.
I will take photos and post them to my blog early next week.

What I most like about this forum is the creative ways that solutions are created using parts not typically created for that purpose. In the spirit of living modestly, I like to use what is laying around or given away on craigslist and freecycle. Of course I won't always be able to do this. I have broken free of over a decade in corporate America and I have become addicted to discovering my own resourcefulness. Think 'Into the Wild'. The thing I miss most is having consistent internet access where I could read online for endless hours. I just don't have time to surf all day and night for different answers. So if I ask a question that has already been asked just forward me to that thread.

[Seeria]

lol You sure are a talker I see you're still braving the serious cold weather. I must have missed it... Why are you staying in such cold and not going south?

[trustedcompass]

Originally Posted by Seeria

lol You sure are a talker I see you're still braving the serious cold weather. I must have missed it... Why are you staying in such cold and not going south?

LOL! Yeah, I prefer to think I am just being social. I'm a natural extrovert. Being pent up on the bus with minimal human contact causes me to really pour it out in the blog.

I AM in the south, South Carolina. I haven't gone south because I have been busy just trying to get the bus into a livable place. Slooow process when living fulltime on it. Then, as to be expected, things came up. Clutch went out. Guy buying my jeep, gave me $500 deposit and thought I provided layaway or that he was on a payment plan. Took him over a month to get the rest of the money. He was a friend of a friend so I was slow in getting firm with him.
My brother is getting married in Nashville, TN in about two weeks. I am driving there this weekend as my first leg of my journey west. My plan is to be in the four corners area (Where Colorado, Utah, New Mexico and Arizona come together). Hit Arizona in the cold season and drive up into the mountains in the summer.
Besides the cold is good for me right now, I need a good butt freezin'. Reminds me to man up.