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Old 08-11-2018, 09:22 AM   #51
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Seven Springs, NC
Posts: 31
Year: 2007
Engine: CAT C7202
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShagNasty View Post
Wkheathjr,

I believe that I experienced the same problem. When you turn the key to the on, not start position are you getting any indications of the wait to start or warming up Glow plugs.

I have a 2002 Thomas and when this happened to me it drove me crazy to the point of scrapping the bus and curling up in a corner and pouting.

Inside the Electrical compartment under the Drivers window (My Bus) don't know where yours is. There are two Solenoids, one is called "Body" and the other is called "Chassis".

The purpose of those are when the key is in the on position Voltage is transferred thru them to the various parts of the vehicle. Body solenoid is for all the accessories and lights, and the Chassis is for all things related to starting the Bus i.e. ECU, Glow plugs, Intake heater and initial ECU Diagnostics.

Check to see if when your key is in the on position that you have voltage between the two large posts on the solenoids, if not check to see if you have 12 volts to the center post when key is in on position. If you have 12 volts to the center post and nothing on the outlet of the solenoid then you have a bad solenoid. Also you should have continuous 12 volts to the inlet of the solenoid and if not trace down stream and check for fuses.

Here is a picture of what I hade to replace. Amazon $55.00 bucks.

White Rogers 100 Amp Continuous Duty 3 post Solenoid

Dan
Hi Dan, that's awesome information and that will help a lot to know where to start. I'll try to tackle this without help of my dad because his health is actual bad. He has some good days but many bad days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Cats are good engines. But the C7 isn't very loved. Probably why he was appalled. One of my in-laws is the foreman at a diesel yard and he isn't a fan of them, fwiw.

Best of luck to you, man. Its good you've got some help. Stay positive and eventually you'll get this sorted out!

If you can, get a big shop fan and put it in an open door. That helps out a lot in a hot bus while you're working.
ECcb, yes I read about C7 as new generation of CAT engine with promised future but most of them had some unfortunate case. My dad is huge fan of CAT and none of NC School bus he worked on carry CAT engine, which is weird because CAT manufacturer is 40 minutes from where we live (Clayton, NC) and only 3 hours from High Point NC where Thomas is built. He has worked on International, Cumming, Ford, and Chevrolet engine. My uncle was in excavator and septic tank business he has few CAT excavators, bulldozers and backhoes and guess who fix them for my uncle?

I had a copy of maintenance report and two reports showed that bus has had leaf spring serviced by the dealer that sold bus to public school in OH. He pointed out to me that this will be common problem I should always keep a close eye on leaf springs on the front end because the CAT engine is very heavy it can break leaf springs.

And I live in Medellin in Colombia part time of the year.. it is city of Eternal Spring climate- always 70's year round with no more than 30% humid. As of now, summer in NC is hot and humid is pretty high over 30% so for me it is just unbearable. Fan would have not make any difference if the humid is up there. ha! I usually wait until after 5pm to do any work outside, and that is why I wanted to move my bus over from my property to my mother's so it will be right there when I am ready to work on it. ha!
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:38 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wkheathjr View Post
Hi Dan, that's awesome information and that will help a lot to know where to start. I'll try to tackle this without help of my dad because his health is actual bad. He has some good days but many bad days.



ECcb, yes I read about C7 as new generation of CAT engine with promised future but most of them had some unfortunate case. My dad is huge fan of CAT and none of NC School bus he worked on carry CAT engine, which is weird because CAT manufacturer is 40 minutes from where we live (Clayton, NC) and only 3 hours from High Point NC where Thomas is built. He has worked on International, Cumming, Ford, and Chevrolet engine. My uncle was in excavator and septic tank business he has few CAT excavators, bulldozers and backhoes and guess who fix them for my uncle?

I had a copy of maintenance report and two reports showed that bus has had leaf spring serviced by the dealer that sold bus to public school in OH. He pointed out to me that this will be common problem I should always keep a close eye on leaf springs on the front end because the CAT engine is very heavy it can break leaf springs.

And I live in Medellin in Colombia part time of the year.. it is city of Eternal Spring climate- always 70's year round with no more than 30% humid. As of now, summer in NC is hot and humid is pretty high over 30% so for me it is just unbearable. Fan would have not make any difference if the humid is up there. ha! I usually wait until after 5pm to do any work outside, and that is why I wanted to move my bus over from my property to my mother's so it will be right there when I am ready to work on it. ha!
My mom used to vacation in Bogata every summer.
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Old 12-18-2018, 09:51 AM   #53
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Seven Springs, NC
Posts: 31
Year: 2007
Engine: CAT C7202
No update with the bus. It has been neglected thanks to unexpectedly guest Hurricane Florence that rudely interrupted my planning for my Colombian girlfriend who came up just right after the Hurricane. It was difficult trying to calm her down assuring her that all would be OK when she gets here. None was done during her one month visit as we spent time traveling on my new to me motorcycle I bought in August for our traveling plan doing the Blue Ridge Parkway, visit few battlefields in MD/PA, DC for few days Myrtle Beach for few nights before getting to home. Repaired hurricane damages at my rental house (finishing up today!!) then heading to the beach house and do interior works as they will start roof work today. Been crazy!

Anyway, I am heading to Colombian Jan 3 and am concerned about winterizing the bus. The bus isn't starting despite new battery and I still haven't had a chance to troubleshoot it. I am not sure if the heater will still work if the solenoid is bad or whatever it is that is preventing bus from starting? I bought Power Service Diesel additive to prevent gelling and I am going to put it in the fuel tank today. Any tip will be appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:44 AM   #54
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So it turns over but doesn’t fire? Can you smell diesel in the exhaust pipe when it’s turning over?Most likely I’d a diesel isn’t firing its because of air in the fuel
Lines. Carefully snuggling up the fittings and look for weeping on any fuel hose could indicate cracks. Wee little cracks will suck in just enough air to break Prime.
Now with that said, caution caution using starting fluid designed for Diesel engines is still not always safe- a wee small toot of the stuff into the air intake is sufficient. Too much and you can screw up the rings and cylinders walls destroying an engine. Spray a 1 second toot I to the top of the engine intake while turning over. That stuff will dry out the cylinder and seize it if you over do it. If it fires and runs then when it’s running let it idle up- don’t goose it! Also check the booster pump normally on the fuel
Pump or very close to it- international engines have a rock filter that for decades most dealerships never check. It’s little and will
Stop fuel flow. Once it’s started then look for wet spots along the fuel
Line all the way to the tank- Btw some fuel tank pick up tubes break off I. The tank and the air gets in when the tank is half full. So fill the tank before pulling your hair out. If it gets to that point.
New filters and check the fuel water separator filling the filters with clean fuel when reinstalling them. Pump the primer pump (little hand flipper thing or plunger pump). Diesels are pretty bullet proof once they have clean fuel / air flow and no air leaks in the fuel
Lines.


Cheers!
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Old 12-25-2018, 03:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wkheathjr View Post
Well, nothing has been done to the bus since my last post concerning it not starting. There has been much of rain and on a nice day heat is just unbearable so I worked on my other project, trying to get my 1979 Honda CX500 Custom running.



New shoes..


Gonna install wheels back on today after changing out bearings and get them set up. Next week, carb goes in, new battery, new throttle cables then fire it up. Depending on when packages for these parts arrive.

Anyway, my mother called her friend who used to work with my father at school bus garage and he is retired. He replied saying that he has no desire to work on any bus again, ever. I can understand his feeling and no worry but for my mother she took it a little personally because she helped him acquired a piece of property.. so I guess she felt he could have at least help a bit. Anyway.. my father finally was able to make it a point to come out and look at the bus. upon his observation he felt I got a lot more than what I paid for. Who knew the bus had traction control? He said none of the school bus he worked on had a chrome bracket supporting the mirror or a heated mirror. None of the NC School bus has a heater system you plug in to keep it warm in the winter. He was appalled it had a CAT engine and he loves CAT. We hooked the battery up and he cranked the bus. He said that the engine is turning real fast that the battery has good power to make it go fast. He has few theories what could be preventing it from starting. Maybe there is a leak in fuel line that he will inspect. Or maybe the solenoid is bad that it is preventing gauge from moving when ignition is on and that it could be why the fuel pump is not getting diesel to engine? But because of the heat we will wait until it is cool to troubleshoot so for now my duty is to get engine cover off so it will be ready when he comes back to have a look at it.

So that's the latest update and it is supposed to be in mid 80's on Monday and Tuesday next week. Maybe he will feel ok to come and look at it.
My understanding is Thomas offered the ESC as an option in 2015 and is now standard equipment on them. Never seen it on a bus as old as yours. Cool bike adventure I'd still like to take.
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Old 12-25-2018, 03:48 PM   #56
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Engine: 8.2
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Don't use either/starting fluid.
A squirt bottle of gasoline will do the same trick.
Both are dangerous with warm up plugs,grid heaters etc.. But the gas is a lot softer drug for a diesel.
Sounds like it just lost prime from a leak somewhere.
Pressurize the tank with an air compressor or if available a nitrogen bottle with a rag wrapped around the hose to force the fuel up and look for leaks while doing that or just start to start the dang thing and look for fuel leaks while your trying or while it's running.
Since you bought a bus with a diesel it almost seems like you should have been around DAD a little more to pick up some knowledge?
I wish I had my DAD around for knowledge
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:11 PM   #57
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Seven Springs, NC
Posts: 31
Year: 2007
Engine: CAT C7202
Countdown has begun for me. I am returning back to USA April 4th, and I am highly motivated to work on my bus project. Beside the bus project, I have few projects. 2) Tearing down poultry house and build two buildings re-using good lumbers. There are already two concrete pads so one is big enough to be a shop and other one as storage. 3) Install metal roof over my rental mobile home (really necessary).

But with downtime now here in Medellin in Colombia South America. I was writing few blog entry so I don't lose track of what I did to my bus. Well, I studied two photo and realized that I may find the problem why my bus didn't start after putting down new batteries. In first photo is the set-up with new battery but if you look at second/third photo, which is what it looked like before I disconnected everything and put new battery down.






Notice how I forgot to reconnect small wires back to the battery? What's the chance this is why bus didn't start?? Now where is the smiles with hand over the face? That is how I feel but at same time getting my hope high hoping this is just a simple problem why bus didn't start.. except that I may have a bigger problem. There were few freezing temperature and I am uncertain if the heater work and if the diesel in fuel line, fuel filters, and etc may gel up??

We will see..
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