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Old 08-07-2009, 10:15 AM   #121
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Den and Smitty you are both right to a certain degree.

I have building experience and all that, vehicles ae a bit different. Let's take my truck driving as an example. One style truck I drove was not insuated particularly well. It was fine, in the cold heat really was the problem- soon as you stopped that sleeper would heat up like a microwave oven.
The other one was sealed so tight you had to roll down the window to close te door right- this was real good in the heat- cold was terrible. No sooner did you stop fuel, get a cup of coffee- all the warm air was forced out by opening a door- then the windows would fog up, from the steam in your cup. This was not the end of the pains- in bad weather like driving snow- you could not use heat at all. Even with the exhaust fans running at full blast, and windows cracked the windsheild would fog up.

A happy medium between the two would have been great. I totally agree with keeping that metal dry as possible. That's why I went with the ply on the metal, and sealed it from above- like the manufaturer did. Figured AmTran had bit more experience than me. Plus the ease and cost was another big inspiration.
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Old 08-07-2009, 12:19 PM   #122
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckf00t
Den and Smitty you are both right to a certain degree.

I have building experience and all that, vehicles ae a bit different. Let's take my truck driving as an example. One style truck I drove was not insuated particularly well. It was fine, in the cold heat really was the problem- soon as you stopped that sleeper would heat up like a microwave oven.
The other one was sealed so tight you had to roll down the window to close te door right- this was real good in the heat- cold was terrible. No sooner did you stop fuel, get a cup of coffee- all the warm air was forced out by opening a door- then the windows would fog up, from the steam in your cup. This was not the end of the pains- in bad weather like driving snow- you could not use heat at all. Even with the exhaust fans running at full blast, and windows cracked the windsheild would fog up.

A happy medium between the two would have been great. I totally agree with keeping that metal dry as possible. That's why I went with the ply on the metal, and sealed it from above- like the manufaturer did. Figured AmTran had bit more experience than me. Plus the ease and cost was another big inspiration.
"A happy medium" was exactly my point DuckfOOt

That's why I don't get bogged down in these theoretical discussion points that are damm hard to measure the results or prove or disprove where the (bus) rubber hits the road

Smitty, I once had a really cushy insurance gig fixing a bunch of ultra progressive modern super insulated efficient houses and your right it is/was the craze but it works much better in theory than practice. Jumping though hoops to bring those practices into the highly dynamic environment of a sealed, low air volume metal tube like a school bus isn't a windmill I'm going to joist That's what makes this forum interesting though, lots of interesting idea's get floated and folks come to their own solutions based on their skill sets, finances etc. I take it you have gone the ultra sealed, insulated route. How's that working for you?

Take Care,
Den
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Old 08-07-2009, 06:47 PM   #123
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Actually one diffrence other than the afore mentioned one is, how many differing climates you can be in a short amount of time.

I realize in our busses we won't be going like I was in the truck. An exampe I have is I-17 from pheonix to flagstaff- In the super sealed truck everytime we went up the hill, stopped opened the door we'd hear our shampoo bottles popping open. Not the end of the world but irritating, every bottle in the truck exploding on us when we change altitudes.

Yes ventiltion is the key, I don't like A/C either. I have a unit in there... Intend on using all those windows. We'll be living in ours 24/7/365, as well. The thing we'll do is move to better suit the climate. So I didn't insulate it to -20, You won't catch me north of I-40 after october either.
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Old 08-08-2009, 02:53 AM   #124
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Yep, Smitty, I've been full-timing in TWE for 3 years now. My bus doesn't look anywhere near as nice as Sean's, but major construction is going to continue soon, as after 24 years of going through the VA Hospital wringer, I have finally been given back some of my mobility. (I'm ecstatic about that, but didn't want to mention it due to Smitty's on-going agonies. I've been there 3 times, Smitty; 2 left replacements, 1 right.)

As far as insulation goes: at present TWE has only the original insulation the manufacturer put in. I did get some of the alumiinum bubble wrap type from (b)Lowes and covered the first 5 windows on each side, driver's side window, windshield and the door glass as a temporary "insulation". It does get a little (quarter-sized) spot of condensation on two or three of the lower panes on the side of the bus that doesn't see much sun. I will be adding some 1" styrene foam I bartered for along the walls and possibly inside partition walls (not sure about that yet, I have other ideas for the space inside partition walls...), and may install some of the 1" foam between "floor joists" underneath. Yeah, I know, I'll still get transfer via the joists themselves, but I still think it will help to a certain extent.

I have been keeping temperatures relatively comfortable for myself when outside ranges from +5 to +105 degrees using various combinations of a three brick propane heater, two 750/1500w space heaters, a couple desk fans, a bunch of computer fans and a 6000btu window shaker temporarily mounted where the top emergency door glass (back door) was. I can hold inside temps to within 5 degrees front to back of bus (67 pax). I shut everything off when I leave it for a day, and upon my return, it's been as cold as 18, and as warm as 101, but can be brought back to my comfort zone inside of 10 minutes to warm up (from 18 ), about 1 hour to cool down (from 101 that's really not that bad for TWE...).

I have one small roof vent (stove exhaust type) that will ultimately become a combination stove/shower exhaust. I also have an 8000btu window shaker that will be replacing the current rear unit (I've got some ideas air for circulation I'm experimenting with) and may move the current one to the front half of TWE or just sell/swap it.

I don't have any extravagant plans to insulate, but I will probably add to TWE's original. I like the idea of heated floors, but can't afford to lose ANY head room. A while back, someone mentioned snake tank heater grid (I'm sorry I can't remember who, I'll try to find the thread tomorrow), and I thought maybe I could lay some of that down the center 1/3rd of the floor, front to back, and have short-loop carpet on top. I don't necessarily want "toasty" floors, just wanna take the "edge" off the cold where there may not be carpet.

Sorry, didn't mean to ramble or thread drift, but there's some of my experiences, and some of my ideas.
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Old 08-08-2009, 08:52 AM   #125
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Well, once more the power of BOB foiled my plan for world domination, as this morning he basically thumbed his proverbial nose at me and went, "Na Na - You can't make me!"

I got the the RV storage place about 7:30 this morning to pick up BOB so we could go get the 4'x8' sheets of foam and plywood for his subfloor and start installation before it got too hot. Obviously, taking him out LAST weekend was a little too stressful because he absolutely refused to start. Good crank, so the battery is okay. The engine just wouldn't "catch" and roll into a run.

So... obviously, BOB's telling me to stop buying housing supplies and start figuring out a way to get him into the big truck garage for maintenance and a thorough once-over by a qualified mechanic.

No sense making the insides perty if the inner werkin's don't work.
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Old 08-08-2009, 09:26 AM   #126
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Re: TygerCub's Project

OH No!! that stinks TC. I know it might be paranoia, but first thing I do everyday is start Day-by-Day. So far the luck has held out. When I was sifting through the left behind stuff I found the maintance records- at 125k the company rebuilt he top, replaced the fuel pump, and some other key things- one reason I picked the AmTran and not the thomas. Still like the tommies looks.

I hope for your sake it's nothing a little servicing won't fix. BoB's a desil right? If so first thing I'd look at is fuel filter- I learned in the big trucks always have an extra with you.
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Old 08-08-2009, 01:23 PM   #127
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Mightybus, If I knew what I was looking at, I'd take your advice in a heartbeat . 'specially b'cuz it'd save me money Unfortunately, BOB's innerdz all look like greasy metal to me. With some wire and plastic bits thrown in for show.

Really, I do want to take a class to learn how diesel engines work. But right this moment, haven't the time nor money to invest in the classes - which are starting the end of this month!

So... I have to fall back on my cousin to get BOB started, then follow through with my promise to get him to the shop for a good professional "once over". Cousin Tommy assures me these are "good guys", so I shouldn't have to worry about being hit with an outrageous charge. If, however, the cost of getting dear old BOB road worthy does, indeed, cost too much, I'll take the excellent advice and start over again. As the saying goes... Better to have loved and lost...

Ya know... I'd really like to smack the idiot who came up with that saying.
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Old 08-08-2009, 01:46 PM   #128
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by TygerCub
As the saying goes... Better to have loved and lost...

Ya know... I'd really like to smack the idiot who came up with that saying.
It's right up there with, "If you love something, set it free. . ."
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Old 08-08-2009, 06:28 PM   #129
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Re: TygerCub's Project

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It is a wonderful Christian poem by a great master.
If the poem brings others comfort, then it's done its job and all is right with the world.
But as someone who has suffered several losses this year, I'm not finding comfort in the grief, nor in the knowledge of previous love of those that were lost. So... yeah, I wanna smack the guy.

Please don't take my inability to appreciate fine literature personally, though. Mine is an indiscriminate urge. "Perfectly natural", I've been told. I also want to smack every other writer of sappy love songs I keep hearing on the radio! And the producers of those dumbass commercials that keep telling people food is love and happiness (Pillsbury, McDonalds, etc).

What can I say... anger is part of the grieving stages. I'm supposedly in the "angry" phase right now. And, yeah, I guess I'm just a LITTLE angry right now. Actually... I got lots of anger. Truth be told, probably way too much anger.

Next year, when I'm over the grieving stages, I may wanna shake his hand and buy him a drink (you know... if he was still alive, that is).

Just not right now.
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Old 08-09-2009, 02:50 AM   #130
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Re: TygerCub's Project

This is going to sound really odd, But it has always worked for me... And have surprised friends when they do it and it works for them...

Have you petted the dash and steering wheel and told BOB that you love him, and he is a good bus?

BOB might just need your good vibes at the moment. And if nothing else, the positivity wont hurt your mood too much.
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