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Old 08-01-2009, 12:35 PM   #101
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by vanguy67
2. Lose the Crocs! The "bus gods" do require some blood to be sacrificed in our endeavors, but there's no sense in giving them toes. BFH's, grinders, rusty metal, etc., etc. and Crocs don't play well together.
Yeah, I'm flirting with danger, I know. But on days I can justify wearing just shorts instead of long pants, I go ahead and put on flimsy shoes too. The first time I used the grinder in them, I was reminded why metal splinters are much more insidious than wood . Last Saturday, I really didn't think I'd be doing too much heavy stuff, so the crocs were okay. Sunday, however, I knew I was going to grind, so wore long pants and work shoes. Glad I did too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griff
It doesn't look "factory made"...Is your fuel tank mounted beneath it? It may be access to your fuel level sensor...?
The plate is, indeed, over the fuel tank. I'll have to pry it up today before I paint.

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Old 08-01-2009, 12:49 PM   #102
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Well... TODAY, I left early to get to the RV storage place when they opened the gates. Leaving my car in my parking space, I took the bus up to Home Depot and bought some paint, a stiff-bristle scrub brush (with long handle), and some heavy-duty detergent. Yep, today is the day to paint the floor! Woo Hoo!

All along the drive home I was a little apprehensive because the street leading to my house is narrow, curved in an awkward way, and usually has folks parked along it inconveniently. Luckily, no one was coming to visit that early in the morning and I made it to the house without wiping out anyone's vehicle. I DID, however, take off a couple branches of my tree out front. Oh well. Needed to trim it back anyway.

First thing I did was pull all the leftover trash out and throw it in my little trailer. That poor 4' x 7' thing is packed now! If the batteries hadn't died on my camera, I might have taken a picture to post. Anyway... the inside was swept, then I pulled a garden hose inside and power sprayed the dust out. But the bus wasn't tilted right, so I had to repark it.

Momma would have been proud! I was able to reverse a couple dozen feet, pull halfway into my yard across the street, then back the bus into the driveway... INCHES from the house! WooHoo! Mom said it was easy. She used to drive a fire truck, and could swing that sucker into the smallest places! Scared quite a few of the fellas in the department, let me tell ya! But she never wrecked once, and could back that thing into the fire house without slowing one bit. But it's one thing for someone to SAY it's easy. It's another thing entirely to do a thing on your own without help. Amazing sense of accomplishment I'm obviously feeling a little full of myself today. I'm sure BOB will straighten me out shortly.

So... the bus is parked next to my house for the weekend. It needed to be driven anyway since it's been sitting since June 23rd. I've started it periodically, but that's not the same as driving it.

Back on the subject

I was able to figure out how to wrangle those car chairs to the rear of the bus, pull them out, and drop them into a wheel barrel. From there I took them to the garage for storage. One more thing out of the way, Yay! I wet down the interior again, doused it with the industrial cleanser, scrubbed the hell out of it with the bristle brush, and hosed it all down again. Now I'm just waiting for it to dry before painting with the "rusty metal" primer.

All that before noon. Man... I need a nap!
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:09 AM   #103
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Quote:
All that before noon. Man... I need a nap!
Amen Sista! I know what you mean, during our conversion I been just "wore slap out". Everyday I work on the bus the next day I am sore and tired. Plus we are packing the house as well...

Get us some pics- doing good.

Don't worry about the shoes- I hate shoes, unless I have to wear them I don't. I did all my work on our bus barefoot- one of the reasons I got the nickname. The wife is the one who gave it to me, one day when I was out shoveling snow in bare feet. She asked if I was like a duck(feet are bare but dont get cold) I said I gesss I was- soon after Duckfoot. I get cold- soon as the ears and hands get cold "done" I'm going inside.
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Old 08-02-2009, 04:26 PM   #104
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Just a couple of pics from this weekend. I didn't get half as much done as I wanted. But that's the nature of working on skoolies... take any estimated time of completion and multiply it by three!

Picture of BOB at home.

Notice the tree... it HAD a couple of low-hanging branches. Afterward, it didn't have ANY low hanging branches.


The little trailer is getting pretty full! That thing is invaluable. It's also going to be expensive to dump. Our landfill charges $50 to dump anything other than yard debris. Which is outrageous considering I pay an obscene amount of taxes every freakin' month for that service. But the landfill is now run by a contractor, so we are basically being overcharged for normal pick-up service.


I used the industrial strength Simple Green to scrub down the floors after emptying all the crap out. While it worked well enough, I think I would have gotten better results if I'd just used some Comet instead.


View of the trash. It's amazing how much junk was left from last week.


Oh I love that rear ramp!


And Oh! I love that mortar mixing bucket! That thing saved me from getting too "up close & personal" with the moldy rubber mat pieces. <shudder>


I finally dumped the last bucketful into the trailer.... and it promptly overbalanced to the rear. A little shifting of materials and everything was back to normal, but it really made me laugh at the time.

You can also see part of the tree damage from my original parking job. Eventually, the bus made it into the driveway, but its first job was to trim the tree.

There are one or two more photos up at the album http://www.skoolie.net/gallery2/v/Skoolies/TygerCub/

Hope everyone had a great weekend!
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Old 08-02-2009, 10:10 PM   #105
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Quote:
Originally Posted by TygerCub
Just a couple of pics from this weekend. I didn't get half as much done as I wanted. But that's the nature of working on skoolies... take any estimated time of completion and multiply it by three!
Isn't that the truth? I'm learning. The hard way.
We didn't complete near what we intended to get done this weekend.
I'm learning that progress is progress, no matter how big OR small. Ours just happens to be small right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TygerCub

The little trailer is getting pretty full! That thing is invaluable.
I can relate to this. My hubby bought a similar trailer a while back from my stepdad and we have gotten SO much use out of that little thing that it's not even funny. We would be lost without it, for sure. Best money we have spent in years. (Well, besides the bus that is.)

Great work! Productive weekend!
Who could ask for more?
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:20 AM   #106
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Re: TygerCub's Project

I'm drooling at all the pictures! You have made awesome progress.. BOB is lookin' good!
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:36 AM   #107
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Video for Day 10 & 11 is being stubborn and giving me a "connection timed out" error.
I'm going to give it one more shot, but if it still doesn't go through, I'll have to leave it til later or risk being late to work.

Looks like it went through. You can find all the videos here: http://www.youtube.com/user/TygerCub
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Old 08-05-2009, 04:50 PM   #108
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Good job- The high tech Captain D's cup to the rescue!!
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:34 PM   #109
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Good news and bad news today.

The good news is today I was able to get out to BOB and painted the floor! YAY!

The bad news is after I got the camera setup, I realized I left the SD card at home in my computer! Waaa!

But... It's all good. The OSPHO rust inhibitor worked great. When I got inside, all the really ugly rust spots were completely transformed from the burnt sienna orange of rust into the dark blackish-brown of iron. Very cool. The entire floor (187 sq.ft.) was covered using a 3/4" nap roller to ensure the paint made it into all the pits, nooks and crannies. Even though that put down a thick layer of paint, there was still a 1/3 of a gallon left.

When I was done, I had an awesome "DOH!" moment too! I was SO careful not to box myself in, and to keep the fan blowing the fumes away from me, and to carry everything out the door while I did the last of the floor... EXCEPT THE PAINT CAN COVER!!! There it sat, mocking me from the wheel well. Cleverly disguised in it's flat, brown-against-whiteness. So totally OBVIOUS, that is! Like I said... a "DOH!" moment. Luckily, it was 97 degrees today, so the paint dried relatively quickly along that side of the bus where the sun shone in through the windows. After 30 minutes I could walk across the floor, the feel of which was reminiscent of walking across a movie theater floor that hasn't been mopped in a decade or so. You know... that little cddric-cddric-cddric sound shoes make as the sole peels up from the butter and soda coated cement? Yeah. It was just like that.

NOW

I'm ready to put down a vapor barrier, foam board and plywood.

Does anyone recommend any particular vapor barrier over another? I'll cross post this to the general public, but thought I'd ask here first.
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Old 08-05-2009, 06:51 PM   #110
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Re: TygerCub's Project

That's your story? left the SD card at home your secret is safe with me... I had a couple of those moments myself. Luckily for me there is a 4 inch metal ledge that I could tip-toe down, using the windows to keep from stepping on the floor. Whist I retrieved the ringing cell phone sitting in the back over the engine.

I used good ol reliable Tyvek http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek/en_US/index.html house wrap. Easy to work with, and good stuff.

http://www2.dupont.com/Tyvek_Weatherization/en_US/
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Old 08-06-2009, 09:03 AM   #111
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Re: TygerCub's Project

I was under the impression that tyvek is a wind barrier that allows vapor to pass thru.

I think that I'd probably just caulk the existing floor with a high grade caulk and then install the subfloor, any fastener that you put thru the floor is going to compromise the vapor barrier and let moisture in between the flooring layers. either undercoat or sprayfoam the bottom of the floor after construction to seal everything.
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Old 08-06-2009, 11:16 AM   #112
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Looks good
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Old 08-06-2009, 12:39 PM   #113
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Re: TygerCub's Project

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I was under the impression that tyvek is a wind barrier that allows vapor to pass thru.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

If I'm not mistaken, allowing some vapor to pass through is a good thing. Otherwise, any moisture that gets trapped by the barrier becomes a breeding ground for mold and mildew. While I eventually hope to move into dryer climates, right now (and probably for several years to come) I'm in the humid (OMG where's my gills?) southeast coastal region. Moisture from condensation might be an issue if I don't allow some vapor to escape.

So... keeping that in mind, I guess I just talked myself out of using the regular plastic and the pond liner. Classic "DOH!" moment there, eh?
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:17 PM   #114
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Re: TygerCub's Project

yer workin it!thats what i like to see and do but im sittin here on my comp wounded and going nuts.I think i know how Smitty feels.....nice work on the bus and tree trimmin!
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:22 PM   #115
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Re: TygerCub's Project

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Originally Posted by timbuk
im sittin here on my comp wounded and going nuts.
Uh oh, Timbuk! What happened???



Smitty,
I like all of your points about ventilation. I also agree with the idea of putting down the foam sheets and taping them for tightness. Having foam right next to the metal skin would regulate the temperature difference quite a bit. So... how 'bout this idea...

In order to reduce the amount of radiated heat coming up from a hot road, and cold from the frozen ground, what if I lay down some of the foil insulation first? That would supposedly give me a radiant barrier that would reflect adverse temperatures. That way, I wouldn't have to put as thick a piece of foam board on the floor, and could put a thicker piece of plywood.

Actually, I think I'll end up with a thick piece of foam and a thinner piece of plywood just because I like the idea of extra foam . Well... the insulation factor, plus the foam's cheaper than the wood... a key factor on my skimpy paycheck .
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Old 08-06-2009, 07:12 PM   #116
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Re: TygerCub's Project

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Originally Posted by Smitty
if you use the ISO board you spoke of in an earlier post (known as R-Max to me), it is foil-faced....2 birds/1-stone.
You know Smitty, it's good someone is paying attention, 'cause I'm too broke even to do that (and I ain't necessarily talkin' money ).

Of course you're right about that. There's so much BS going on in my life right now, I'm just a little scattered. I need to slow down and review my notes and remember all the good stuff that's already been discussed. <sigh>

This bus is the only thing keeping me sane right now and I really don't wanna mess it up. I need to just sit back and chill, or it WILL happen.

I hear ya about the roof, windows and walls. I'm getting there, but want a solid foundation to stand on while tearing out the rest. I learned that lesson after taking out the driver's side wall panel, then having to step around it while trying to do all the other work (don't have anywhere to store the panels except inside the bus). It's back up out of the way for now, but once the plywood floor's down, I'll feel better about pulling out the rest of the interior panels.

Right now, I think I'm gonna just chill for a couple of days & get my head on straight.
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Old 08-06-2009, 08:18 PM   #117
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Hey TC amen sista,

My bus has been keeping me from climbing a clock tower myself- except I'd just have to yell "bang you're dead" 'cause I can't afford any real bullets.

I'll give you an idea or two to think on. Since you are starting with bare metal, you've primed it and all. R-max is a good option, even the plastic wouldn't be a bad idea. Yes you'll be driving screws into it- you will be with anything you put down. What you could do after you get the pastic and ply down is use your leftover paint- hit all the screw heads- then go to foam, then finish floor.

Pretty much what I did- It had 1/2" ply so I left it in place. Nice thick coat of primer then laid the foam in... luan finish floor on that.
Best of luck, let me know if you want any advice on the woodworking part- that's my expertise. Take a day or two off, after a while you need it.
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Old 08-07-2009, 01:06 AM   #118
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Here is the truth concerning floors as I see it. You don't want to trap the moisture between the metal floor and anything. The moisture should be allowed to travel up and out. Plastic on top of metal is just wrong, for that reason. Foil between the metal and the floor is just wrong for that reason. People don't realize why the vinyl was laid down to begin with. It is to provide a non-slip surface for people to walk on and to keep water from going onto the plywood or metal when school bus drivers have to hose the actual puke and caca out of their bus when little Joe has his accident. Why in the world doesn't anyone on this board notice that no manufacturer has ever put a barrier between the wood and the metal. The manufacturers are not stupid, and they're not that stupid not do do it if within the realm of physics it were proper to do so. Does anyone have any idea how rusted a floor would be if water from a bus driver's hose got caught between a plastic barrier and the floor? Does anybody know that that is the reason you see rust at all? Does anybody know why bus floors are usually rusted at the sides and where the seat bolts go through? Well, it is because the side is where the water that doesn't run off the top(out the back door because most drivers park on a slope when hosing out their bus), runs out.

Now most skoolie people aren't going to be hosing out their bus every week, they have fancy floors to protect. The proper thing to do is lay 'red rosin' paper between the metal floor and the plywood. It is a hydro-absorbent paper that wicks moisture away from the metal and allows it to migrate in a timely manner through the wood floor and out, while providing a conduction barrier(insulation ya) between the metal floor and the plywood or unfaced insulation material. All builders of houses with metal roofs laid down directly onto plywood use this, so their fancy roofs won't rust out within a year. Sheet metal stored outside, one on top of the other will rust out this way also. Little do the people here know that if they put plastic between the metal floor and and their foam or plywood the only way that trapped moisture can escape is through the screws they fastened everything down with. I also note that it is proper to put pinholes in the foam, here and there, for the moisture to escape. And LOL I read here how they want to seal the tops of the screws.

Wick that moisture out T.C. and then you can reside in a non-stinky, mildew free castle on wheels. Here now I give you two proper formulas, which I may pull off the board if arguments ensue.
1) metal floor to red rosin paper to plywood.
2)metal floor to red rosin paper to non-faced foam to plywood.
Dang. Here is one more, I like;
3)metal floor to red rosin paper to salvaged one hundred year old oak flooring.
Oh yeah, one more;
4)metal floor to plywood.

Moisture is the enemy, be it in your socks or where the sun doesn't shine, unless you're in the desert or running a wood stove in the dry northern winter.

Remember the metal floor IS your moisture barrier FROM THE BOTTOM OUTSIDE.

All of the above is just my opinion. Only take advice from a communist with a 'license', because they have been anointed.

Funniest thing I ever saw was an old boy insulating the ceiling in his house in Port Aransas. The sapper used a vapor barrier pink in the ceiling . His A.C. had to run twice as long to give the same comfort level because he had trapped the moisture in the rooms. Plus after a while you could see the sheetrock tape letting loose on his ceiling. Being the stubborn type, he just got angry if you would bring it to his attention that he was an idiot.

Ok, I've said my piece concerning this topic, and T.C. , Ezbme and Smitty thank you for your kind words in my bus adventure post, they mean a lot to me.
Chris
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Old 08-07-2009, 04:34 AM   #119
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Re: TygerCub's Project

Hi... My name is TygerCub, and I'm... I'm a skoolie addict.

Okay, so I couldn't keep away.

Mightybus has a point about the way buses are built from the manufacturers. But so many of us find our floors rotted, that it's no wonder we try to improve on the original design. What >I< found was apparently odd in that I had no subfloor - just rubber mat glued to the metal. However, where there was glue, the floor was great. Any spot where the glue appeared to be missing, or was just too thin had developed rust. With that in mind (and four hours of sleep under my belt), I've decided to do the following:
  • Cover all the bolt holes left from the original bench seats. Stop moisture from entering that way.[/*:m:3vnaxoqr]
  • Put down some type of membrane for moisture control. Haven't a clue what it will be yet. Whether that's visqueen or red rosin paper, or something compatable, it has to be locally available. I'll just have to ask around at some of the mom & pop places as well as the big box stores.[/*:m:3vnaxoqr]
  • Lay down a layer of the foil faced polyisocyanurate sheeting. May have to do a second layer depending on the thickness I can find in this area.[/*:m:3vnaxoqr]
  • Top that with 23/32" tounge-in-groove subfloor plywood. As others have said, that's the foundation for construction.[/*:m:3vnaxoqr]
  • After I'm finished tearing out, insulating & paneling the roof and ceiling, I'll put a final covering over the plywood floor. Something pretty, but waterproof. I may or may not install the in-floor heating, depending on what I can afford at the time. Of course, by the time I reach that point, it may be winter and I'll make that decision based on cold feet! We'll see. [/*:m:3vnaxoqr]

Thanks for all the support guys. You're helping me a lot and keeping me on track. I appreciate it.
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Old 08-07-2009, 07:24 AM   #120
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Re: TygerCub's Project

I've been a builder for lots of years houses to hotels to dry cleaners to water parks and too tight always causes more problems than too loose. A bus camper has a lot going on in there, with little volume, as far as heat transfer, condensation, moisture build-up etc. and I'm not getting too anal trying to seal mine up like a Tupperware container. I'm perfectly content to let it breath.

Keep the moisture out of anyplace not ventilated enough to dissipate it before it causes grief and make sure the interior ventilates well enough to evacuate moisture laden air, it doesn't make too much sense to me sealing every last interior to exterior vapor channel only to have to run a fan or open a window when your cooking to keep the condensation from running down the walls. Anyone who has lived in a wood heated tent during the winter will understand what I'm talking about! Just my two cents

This kind of sounds like the drama folks go though insulating, if a little is good a lot must be better, but you get to the "Law of Diminishing Returns" at a certain point

Take Care,
Den
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