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Old 04-03-2009, 12:10 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Victoria

Hi everyone,
I joined this board under a different username 5 years ago at 13. Since then, I have been through 8 or 9 cars (I like to change them every now and then, and some were really rough), graduated from high school with honors and a front page article in the local newspaper, lost my single mother to her battle with systemic lupus, started 2 businesses (one of which never did anything), and developed a 2 year relationship. If you did the math, I am now 18, and Saturday I will be driving from Michigan to Indiana pick up my first skoolie. I can't contain my excitement.

I picked up this lovely rig for $800. It is a 1987 66 Passenger International, with a 7.3l v8 diesel, 167k. I think this would be just breaking it in, most diesels of that size I've seen run 500k plus miles. I don't know about this particular model, if anyone does I'd appreciate your remarks.
I am not sure of the interior length in this bus, I have big plans for it, so I hope it can contain itself. I plan on using it for road trips through college, and eventually tour the country with it for at least 1 year. That being said, I would like it to be relatively upscale, including:
A full size Jetted Bathtub
A residential refrigerator (are these ok to put in coaches now, I see them all the time, but I read a long time ago that you couldn't do this)
An apartment size dishwasher
A roof raise (evil impending doom music plays)
A rooftop deck similar to Airstream's Skydeck, complete with barbecue grill and mini-fridge
A tankless water heater, or a large 40 gal or so water heater (what would you recommend?)
Tiled entryway and ambient lighting throughout
A plasma tv or projector and screen in the main living space, and a smaller flat panel in the bedroom
Satellite Tv
A generator (one should hope with all of this stuff)
100+ gallon freshwater tank
Stairs to the deck that can pull down from the ceiling (so that my grandmothers can access it)
I am trying to figure out a cheap way to do a composting toilet, so that I can avoid a blackwater tank altogether
An office space (glorified desk)
Storage Bays Underneath
A very nice rustoleum paint job reminiscent of those on high end rv's like Fleetwood's American Coach Line
I would like to put in a slide-out or two, but I don't know how much it would cost, and I would rather it be electric/mechanical than hydraulic
Air Conditioning and Heating (Michigan weather is anything but predictable), I am hoping to get away with just having a window A/C unit and using the existing heat system
I would like to put a queen size bed in back, but I don't know if it will be possible with all of the rest of the stuff taking up space, since I don't want the entire bedroom to just be a bed.

Being a 66 Passenger bus, I think I may have to compromise on some things, just because of the lack of space, but we'll see once I actually get it home. The nice part is that I already have most of this stuff, and craigslist is a very good resource otherwise. Despite it sounding like a lot, I don't anticipate this to cost too much because of that. I have my (carpenter) uncle and girlfriend to help me, and since it's spring break I will hopefully be getting a lot done. I wonder how many trips to harbor freight I will make.

I am also wondering if I ever decided to sell it, would I be able to break even or even make a profit. Usually the only ones I see making big profits are Coaches made from Prevost or MCI shells. I think I should be able to do this all for around $3-4k total.

Anyways, I will keep this updated with photos and ideas to bounce off of you all, and I would really appreciate any suggestions you have for what to do or what not to do that is or isn't in my plans. Oh, and if anyone knows the Michigan requirements to be titled as an rv I would appreciate that, last I knew it was 3 of a list of 4 things, but I can't find it anywhere.

PS: I am naming my Skoolie "Victoria" as of right now, I thought of "Crown Victoria", but it's not a crown and I didn't want to seem like I was copying ford. Let me know what you all think. Thanks for reading

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1987 International (66 passenger) 7.3l diesel
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1988 Chevy C1500
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:18 AM   #2
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Re: Victoria

I was also going to say that I would title and insure it when it still looked rough, so that I don't get stuck with higher rates. I have state farm for auto and they said they could insure it once I convert it for probably around 200-300 a year, that is on average what they charge. I see GMAC brought up a lot here, and I wondered do you all think that would be a better route to take?
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:34 AM   #3
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Re: Victoria

The two insurance companies you mentioned are the ones you will see mentioned all over. All of my insurance is through State Farm so that was the obvious choice for me on the bus. My agent insured it for me no problem. I just have liability as I doubt I'm going to be on the losing end of any accident and if I am...well...I build again! My insurance comes in under $200 per year including towing insurance. The best part is that is for the whole year and I don't insure it for nearly that long since I don't use it during the winter. My agent goes so far as to backdate my insurance suspension so as to save me money. I think last year I paid maybe $75 for insurance all year. Coincidently the good student discount, age, and the Steer Clear driving discounts all mean essentially nothing on RV insurance because the actuarials show that it really doesn't matter for these vehicles so it's good that the rates are so cheap.
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Old 04-03-2009, 12:23 PM   #4
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Re: Victoria

Woohoo! It looks like I just got a tankless lp water heater for $85. That should save on space and be a bit more efficient than a 40 gallon. I am trying to decide on buying a rough trailer for $300 to use for parts, but most of the items I am using are going to be residential. What do you all think?
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Old 04-03-2009, 07:48 PM   #5
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Re: Victoria

Well what are your intentions? I know you want to take a long trip and some shorter trips, but are you going to be fulltiming it in this thing? Residential stuff is huge. It might not seem that way, but just wait until you cram it in there. An RV style range and oven is smaller, but there isn't much you can't do in them that you could do in a residential size unit, save for roasting a 20 lbs turkey. But let me tell you...the difference in size is immense. It doesn't take long for the interior of a bus to fill up. Measure some stuff you're looking at using and make cardboard replicas so you can get a feel for the size.
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Old 04-03-2009, 08:19 PM   #6
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Re: Victoria

A tankless water heater I think would take alot of energy to heat up the water, but Sounds interesting let me know how that works.
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Old 04-03-2009, 09:17 PM   #7
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Re: Victoria

Well I don't necessarily need to get the tankless unit, I just figured it would be more efficient than a 40gal model. I found a rough travel trailer for $300 which I could probably pull some parts from, but I plan on spending a lot of time in this bus. Even when it is parked, I think I'll use it as an office or possibly live in it. Right now I am living with my great grandmother, I help her pay her bills, and save a ton of money on rent which is how I could afford this.

Most likely the water heater from the trailer would be a 6gal; and I am concerned that if I can manage to fit that 5' long 32" wide jetted tub I want in, a 6 gallon water heater will mean I don't get to use the tub too comfortably. The tankless takes up far less room than a 40 gallon water heater, and it wouldn't be wasting energy heating 40 gallons when I do not need it. I would really like to know what you all would suggest. If I can't get that tub, I am planning on a shower something like this:



I went idea shopping at menards today, and fell in love with this tile "blue pearl." Too bad it is $9 per square foot, I was thinking of using it for counters though, and perhaps as an accent tile somewhere, I doubt I would buy more than 10 tiles, and that's only if I don't have time to talk myself out of it beforehand. I am worried about the tile cracking with the floor flexing down the road, but I see a lot of new conversions using hard tile on the floors. I know vinyl would work just fine, but I really prefer the look and feel of real stone. Any ideas here?

I also see residential refrigerators in newer rv's, and they seem to fit ok, I know it will take some careful planning, and maybe I could luck out and find a counter-depth fridge. For the range I was thinking of something like what these people did:



They said they originally had a standard rv range and oven, but it was just too small. I do plan on full-timing in this for at least a year or two within the next few years, so I want it to be comfortable. I think I forgot to also include that I wanted a washer and dryer or a combo unit sometime in the future, but it is not necessary right away. I know 13' 9" is the legal max height, but I don't know how tall this bus is to begin with. I'll check when I get it tomorrow. Ideally I would like at least 7' interior ceilings with some recessed lighting, and a rooftop deck with seats that flip up, my minifridge leftover from life in the dorms, and a small barbecue grill. I am trying not to get my hopes up about it too much, as I don't know how much of this will be possible in terms of finances and mainly in terms of space. So far it's not looking like it will cost too much more than other conversions, but we'll see.

I am considering fabricating slide-outs using electric actuators along with a system similar to "a bus with no name".



This would allow for a lot more space when parked, but I hate when I see rv's with slide-outs that are too cramped and basically unusable without the slide-outs extended (like when you're driving down the road).

I came up with an idea to use a significantly smaller (than 120+ gallon) grey water tank, and hook up a valve and garden hose to be able to empty it somewhere. The only time it wouldn't be able to handle the load would be when someone takes a bath instead of a shower. Perhaps I could use a smaller freshwater tank, but I would like to be able to boondock for several days up to 2 weeks at a time.

I am still trying to figure out the compost toilet situation, perhaps I will have to bite the bullet and set up a black water system. I notice that rv surplus salvage had faucets for rv's. Would there be any issues with me using a plain residential faucet?

Any other suggestions as to ideas for what to put in or what not to put in? Today I found out there are rv saunas available for $1k...I think I'll pass on that though But Please, anything you can suggest I would love to know!

I am still wondering if I will be able to break even should I ever want to sell it. I guess we'll see when the time comes.

For now I am off to bed, must get up early for the 4 hour drive (there, then another 4 back). Thanks for reading, and please comment.
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Old 04-04-2009, 05:57 AM   #8
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Re: Victoria

Well I am off today to pick up my new rig! Wish me luck...
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1988 Chevy C1500
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:31 PM   #9
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Re: Victoria

I haven't been this tired at this time in a very long time. I picked up the bus today and drove it home, my first drive in a vehicle of that stature, but there's a first time for everything I suppose. My girlfriend came along and I had to hear the "be careful what you buy" and "are you sure you want to do this?" talk. He was genuinely concerned and I appreciate it, but I have confidence in myself.

Now that I have been able to get some measurements I can more accurately create a floor plan.

After the very long drive back, I love the idea of sound deadening material. I never realized just how loud a diesel is when it finally hits 55 mph. The guy told me long before I got the bus that the back brakes were disconnected (broken caliper) and the front brakes didn't work too well. I had to drive close to 200 miles to get home, and while it certainly made a difference, it wasn't too bad. I will be replacing most of it anyway.

The chair was probably a little less comfortable than a milk crate, very hard and not adjustable, that will definitely need to go.

Although I am not sure, I think it has air brakes. Perhaps one of you could confirm it for me. When I hold the brake pedal down, it makes a sound like the air from a tire pump. When I first start up the bus, a red light comes on in the dash saying something about the brakes (I don't remember) and it makes a wining noise, after a few seconds, it goes off and the bus is ready to roll (or stop). If these are indeed air brakes, does anyone have suggestions on how to use them? I know you need an endorsement on top of a cdl for air brakes, unless they are on an "rv". Because of this I assume there is something extra to know about operating them.

The bus was pretty easy to handle once I got the hang of it, the only tough time I had was when I got to my street, because someone was having a birthday party and there were tons of cars parked along the road. At any rate I made it, and backed into the driveway of my grandma's home that sits on a total of 0.13 acres, it looks pretty big next to the house.

I must say the bus handles beautifully, even for a newbie like me. Do all buses take nearly a minute to get up to speed on the freeway? It seemed to cruise comfortably at 55-60mph @ 2700-2900 RPM. I only filled it up once, so I do not know the mpg yet either.

I kept having a problem with the battery. Whenever we would take a break from driving and shut off the bus, the battery would die. I must say I did leave the keys in the ignition switch, idk if that makes a difference. Fortunately my gf and family were following me in my explorer, so we simply jumped it, but I didn't think we should have to. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there something I'm doing wrong, or do I just need a new battery?

Beyond that I can't think of any other questions or comments I have. I would love feedback from everyone, along with any questions or ideas you may have. I will post some pics tomorrow before and after my uncle and I remove the seats with some angle grinders from harbor freight. Thanks for reading, and please write back!
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Old 04-04-2009, 10:40 PM   #10
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Re: Victoria

Also I forgot to add that the ride was kind of rough over the cheaply paved roads of Indiana and Michigan. It is making me question putting in a residential fridge and apartment range, among other fixtures. Does anyone have any experience with these in a skoolie? How do these products hold up over time? I figured for the fridge I would put it on carpet padding to absorb some of the vibration and bouncing. At worst I will have to go with typical rv fixtures, but I would really like the extra capacity of residential appliances.
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Old 04-05-2009, 11:27 PM   #11
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Re: Victoria

Ok so the seats were much easier than I imagined they would be. I made three trips to harbor freight, lol. One to take back the crappy air compressor I bought and get a replacement. The second to get more oil for the replacement. Finally, I made another trip to take back the second non-working compressor I bought there. The friendly people refunded my money for the compressor and oil, gave me ten dollars off an angle grinder, and gave me a free dewalt wheel for my hassle.

Although the seats were easy, with scheduling conflicts we only got about half of them out. The rest will be out tomorrow and I will post pics of all the space I'll fill with other stuff. The floor feels nice and solid all the way through, the whole rig feels very solid and well built.

I am trying to decide how (if at all) to insulate the walls, and whether to leave the rear heater in and try to build around it or remove it. Any recommendations?

I also made a trip to the library to pick up "the bus convertor's bible," gotta love free $50 books. After that I made a trip to menards and spent almost $100 on some of the electrical supplies, including a circuit breaker, 250' of romex, I figured 14-2 should be able to handle it all. I found some shallow wall boxes for the light switches and outlets, and I got 2 13" light fixtures for a mere $11.88, the same kind I put in my bedroom a year or so ago and have loved.

I'm excited for tomorrow, but I kind of have no idea what to do after my uncle and I finish pulling out the seats. I priced rustoleum paint @ $26 per gallon at walmart, but they only had black and two different shades of grey. Where would be a good place to go to get different or custom colors?

At any rate I am really enjoying this and it is a dream coming true. Here are some pics from Saturday when I picked it up:


Learning The Ropes (and knobs, levers, buttons, etc.)


Coming back from a 4 mile country test drive, if only getting my driver's license was that easy


Profile shot!


This gas station advertised diesel but there is no way you could fit a truck through there, especially not with the combined mcd's drivethrough


Yuck! My girlfriend thought the chalet rv's looked cool, I should've just deleted this.


I wasn't joking when I said the house sat on .13 acres, I'm glad my neighbors like me.


Boy meets skoolie...there is not too much more exciting in the world.


This one is goofy but I couldn't resist, I felt like this:



Anyways, thanks for reading, and please leave comments and suggestions, I really like to read them.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:37 AM   #12
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Re: Victoria

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickverge
Although I am not sure, I think it has air brakes. Perhaps one of you could confirm it for me. When I hold the brake pedal down, it makes a sound like the air from a tire pump. When I first start up the bus, a red light comes on in the dash saying something about the brakes (I don't remember) and it makes a wining noise, after a few seconds, it goes off and the bus is ready to roll (or stop). If these are indeed air brakes, does anyone have suggestions on how to use them? I know you need an endorsement on top of a cdl for air brakes, unless they are on an "rv". Because of this I assume there is something extra to know about operating them.
I highly doubt you have air brakes. Buses with air brakes don't have broken calipers because, unless it is one of those cooky airscrew jobs, they don't have calipers. Also, you would have to push a large yellow knob to release the brakes, there would be an air pressure gauge, and the pedal would most likely say "AIR BRAKE" on it. What you are most likely hearing it the electrical backup motor for the power assist. Your power assist comes from pressure fed by the power steering pump. In the event that you lose this pressure it has an electric motor to serve as a backup for the brakes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nickverge
I must say the bus handles beautifully, even for a newbie like me. Do all buses take nearly a minute to get up to speed on the freeway? It seemed to cruise comfortably at 55-60mph @ 2700-2900 RPM. I only filled it up once, so I do not know the mpg yet either.
Yep, most buses take that long. Enjoy the scenery.
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Old 04-06-2009, 12:42 AM   #13
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Re: Victoria

Yeah it does not have air brakes. The light said "brake pressure" and I'm sure you are right.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:29 AM   #14
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Re: Victoria

any store that can tint oil based paint can custom mix rustoleum to your color, the issue is will they?. you will need to let them know that you are buying the paint with no guarantee on the color, the color chart/recipie depends on the color of the base paint, some shade of white, pick a color from the chart, ask them to mix it for you and be happy with the result, it will be close but probably not an exact color match, I've had the best luck at the big box home improvement stores with tinting primer and other oddball products.
another suggestion would be to check the color selections at tractor supply, they handle rustoleum colors plus some equipment enamel that works good.
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:24 AM   #15
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Re: Victoria

So we finally got all the seats out, well except one we left in for a dinette. I don't really plan on having a dinette, but it should help in getting it retitled as an rv. I want to make it look cheap for insurance purposes. After it's insured, I will fix it up the way I want it, but for liability only I would rather not pay more than I need to. I doubt I am going to lose in the event of an accident, so I think the minimum will be fine.

We, here in southwest Michigan, enjoyed a snow storm, after a few weeks of nice 60 degree sunny days. The power went out, it sucked. Since some of the bolts stripped in the floor, and with no power for the angle grinder, my uncle and I resorted to "incredible hulk" tactics and muscled the seats out of the floor. It wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I believe in michigan you have to have 3 of 4 of the following: Cooking facilities, eating facilities, sleeping quarters, or a toilet and potable water system.

Throwing in a bed and a table will be easy. The other two might take some time. I really want to get it titled as an rv sooner than later, because although my neighbors don't mind, code compliance trucks ride by here often, and I don't know if it's legal to park buses in your driveway here, however rv's are legal . Does anyone have any suggestions on getting it retitled and insured quickly?

Also I went to menards to ask about rustoleum and they had it but only had spray cans. The guy there recommended I just prime the bus and use regular house paint. I liked the idea, then when I got home I got to thinking that I want to be able to put a clear coat over it, and I don't know if you can do this with regular house paint or not. Any thoughts?

Well thanks for reading, and I will post some more pictures soon. I am off to habitat for humanity to hopefully find a few things.
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Old 04-08-2009, 09:30 AM   #16
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Re: Victoria

home depot carries rustoleum in gallon cans in some colors & can special order you have to buy at least two cans gallon size to special order we know had to do that, good luck.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:03 AM   #17
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Re: Victoria

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickverge
I believe in michigan you have to have 3 of 4 of the following: Cooking facilities, eating facilities, sleeping quarters, or a toilet and potable water system.

Throwing in a bed and a table will be easy. The other two might take some time. I really want to get it titled as an rv sooner than later, because although my neighbors don't mind, code compliance trucks ride by here often, and I don't know if it's legal to park buses in your driveway here, however rv's are legal . Does anyone have any suggestions on getting it retitled and insured quickly?
When I got my bus (now 5 years ago) there was no inspection needed. So unless the rules have changed since then, you should be able to just write out what you did and submit that for a title change. I did mine a week after got my bus, and stated that it had a kitchen and bedroom to meet the requirements, while in fact it still had half the seats in it. I also made it seem that I had done the conversion as cheap as possiable - saying I used old used carpet & furniature... I think my regestration is only like $70/year

When it came to insurance I just called around and found a place in Grand Rapids (near my house) that insured me with no problems for about $300 a year.

Where in Michigan do you live?
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:47 AM   #18
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Re: Victoria

I live in Battle Creek, not too far from Grand Rapids. I just called the S.O.S. and they said I have to have law enforcement inspect the vehicle and fill out this form:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/TR-54_38480_7.pdf

Which makes absolutely no sense, as it really has nothing to do with rv's. She said it needs to have Living Quarters, Kitchen Quarters, and Sleeping Quarters that are all permanently affixed to the vehicle. I want to have it looking cheap, to get the lower insurance rates, and then I can upgrade it. The lady wasn't very helpful, she didn't really look up anything, I think more or less she was just saying what she thought, at first she told me it needed to have a toilet, until I said that not all manufactured rv's have toilets. I was going to call the police station and ask, then I decided to wait, thinking why draw attention to myself by letting the police know that I have a "bus" parked in the driveway. I don't think there is a number to contact the local SOS branch office, and I really don't feel like waiting in line to find out. Luckily I got the bus on the 4th, so I can just write in a 1 or a 2 in front of it to give myself more time to transfer the title (the seller suggested that).

I am not trying to be a criminal, they just create so much red tape for nothing. I understand some things that are safety issues, but give me a break. I am going to try to find a number to the local sos office and hopefully that will help. If anyone knows the real requirements for this year, please let me know.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:25 PM   #19
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Re: Victoria

Yeah I would call and talk to someone else or go down there. I found that by talking to 3 diffrent people I got 3 diffrent answers. I don't know what you're asking them, but be as simple as you can and don't provide any more information than you have to... I'd do something like this. "Hey I bought a bus and want to know how I go about titling it as an RV/motorhome" They'll probably say it has to be converted bla bla... ask them what the requirements are. When I did mine they told me that it has to have permanent eating and sleeping quarters. I told them that it does & that I converted it myself. They had me write out what I did and sign it.. so I did then I handed it to them and they determined the vaule (remember you only paid $850 bucks for it and used all cheap/free materials, so it should be low) and assigned me a reistration catagory and issued me a motorhome title.

I did not have to fill any form like you have a link to there... that looks like a form you'd use if you were building a vehicle form scratch. Tell them you shouldn't need all that inspected because it's already a road legal vehicle.

Like I said keep talking to people down there till you get an answer you like. Good luck.
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Old 04-08-2009, 01:46 PM   #20
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Re: Victoria

Thanks philbus, I will have to just try going there. Does anyone have any ideas on where to put a tub or shower? The wheel humps are getting the way of my plans of putting the bathroom right over them. I think a utility closet (to house the water heater, furnace, and electrical box) and storage closet with space for washer/dryer would be much more suitable for that space. I would like a queen or at least full size bed, which would make it difficult to put a bathroom in the back of the bus, as you would essentially have to climb over the bed to get to the bathroom, unless I put the bed longways against the wall, so for two people, one would have to climb over the other one to get out (I don't like that idea either). Ideally the stateroom would be in the back of the bus (some furniture in the bus will convert to additional beds).

I am hoping someone else will have a better thought on it than I do. Putting the bathroom over the wheels wouldn't be a problem with a roof raise, but I planned on expanding to a roof raise later. The interior height is about 6'4 now, which is good enough for the moment.

Also, what would be the best type of insulation for the exterior walls? I am using 2x4's to frame the walls, but using them the opposite direction of how houses are framed. This means there will be room for 1.5" of insulation on each exterior wall. I found shallow gang boxes to use for outlets and wiring. How important is it to insulate the floor? I don't want to cut too much into the headroom of the bus, so I think less is best. Any suggestions?

Thank you all for your input, it is helping a lot.
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Nicholas Virgil
1987 International (66 passenger) 7.3l diesel
2002 Ford Explorer
1993 Saturn SL2
1988 Chevy C1500
Kmart Mountain Bike
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