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Old 01-23-2015, 03:42 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Vermont
Posts: 49
Year: 2003
Engine: DT466E
Well here we go... 2003 International

Well, we did it... After reading most every thread here and thinking about how we wanted to use the rig... wired the money today and bus is delivered on Tuesday.

A 2003 International with 150kmi and a DT466E.

I looked at several private sales and there was always a catch with rust or BS around getting the bus started, access, or just f'ing weirdos that I didn't want to deal with. (The guy with the Wanderlodge wouldn't give me his name or contact... and I had to meet him at a gas station near his house. Strange ducks in this world!)

I wasn't going to use a dealer initially, but then I met this Joe Plante from Don Brown bus sales in NY. He was jazzed about the conversion for the family and was reasonable on the pricing. Sent the extra pics I wanted on several rigs etc... Whats a day worth of ones time? Didn't really want to spend several driving all over looking at Craigslist rigs or checking govdeals every other day.

The PITA issue with moving the bus here was solved, and they are basically delivering it for the price of gas (read no commercial insurance and 1 more precious day with the family here not driving to NY and back). That was a deal-closer for me.

This may sound like an advertisement, but its not. I was just pleased with the process and glad we can get started.

Four underbody compartments! Sweet!

Just made a run to Home Depot and gonna spend the weekend building the cabinetry.

Homeschooling to Roadschooling with 4 kids. Here we go.

Anyone know the best place to get composting a composting toilet?
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:57 PM   #2
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A Big Skoolie Welcome! --- Don't know what you paid, but that looks like an outstanding platform to build on. And while I prefer the non "E" version, the 466 is a well proven motor and at 150K barely broken in. And scoring four belly bays is really icing on the cake. Keep the pix coming.

BTW...What tranny does it have?
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Old 01-24-2015, 06:10 AM   #3
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really nice bus there! gotta luv the understorage and side exit. i also applaud you on home(road)skooling. these days, public anything is no place for children.
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Old 01-24-2015, 07:06 AM   #4
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Looks just like my bus only new and with a dognose.
I love my bus. I hope you enjoy yours too.
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Old 01-24-2015, 07:11 AM   #5
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Welcome to the madness, ah, er, saneness!!
__________________
I am an sojourner in the earth; hide not Your Commandments from me. Psalm 119:19

Here is the patience of the saints; here are the ones keeping the commandments of YAHWEH, and the faith of Yahshua. Rev. 14:12
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Old 01-25-2015, 09:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojourner View Post
Welcome to the madness, ah, er, saneness!!
Thanks! madness it is...

With the bus coming on Tuesday, the family couldn't wait to get started... We spent 1/2 the weekend shopping for junk and 1/2 building. Finished the kitchen cabinets 90% on the bunk bends and 50% on the writing desk... (see pics)

We also looked at a later model water damaged travel trailer, (I had my eye on the AC unit, cooktop, tanks/sensors, pump, fridge and misc other stuff) but my lovely wife saw the fridge and said "NO WAY are we going to fit food for 6 in that little thing". So that was the dealbreaker because it was the most valuable thing for me.

When we got home she bought the one she wanted online...

On the kitchen cabinets, I had planned to faceframe, drawer and door front with cherry, but my wife came out to the shop and saw the birch ply carcass' and was like, "wow those look nice"... so Willa and I sanded them down and slapped some linseed oil and wax and called 'em good!

The best part of the gig was drawing out the floor plan on the garage floor in chalk (not the whole thing, just the center section) and everyone realizing how tight it is gonna' be with cabinets, shower, bathroom and bunkbeds.

Next I'm thinking long and hard about a propaneless bus, designing the electrical system (schematics forthcoming) with all LED lighting, a high efficiency heat-pump AC/heater... that can all work. Anybody ever done a bus without propane (except for the outdoor grill of course...) ? I think each deep cycle battery is about 1kWhr and is good for 300-500 cycles. They will float charge when plugged in, recharge from the alternator and potentially solar. So at $50 bones a pop, maybe 16 batteries in parallel would be sufficient for an evening. Gotta' disconnect them from the starting batteries automatically... or three diodes between the alternator, starting batteries and service batteries. Anyone?

Also thinking about how the shower is sunk into the floor so my lanky 6'6" ass can stand up in it.. I'm envisioning welding up a 18" drop box with one step in out of 12ga. Coating the outside with some good toxic marine paint then insulation and an aluminum skin... all seems reasonable, but I'm challenged with the internal coating. So second best might be a 4'x 2' x 2' cattle water tub and cutting 6" off the top. Anyone sunk a shower/bath in the floor?

I went a little overboard on the bunk latters, mortising every rung and then shaping the whole thing... but it was fun and a good sanding project for the three little helpers.

Well I've got a sleepy 5 yr old on me, so gotta' go read Magic School Bus with her. More later.
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Old 01-26-2015, 03:27 AM   #7
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You clearly have the budget to spend, and you're 6'6"...
I'd be looking into a roof raisin'. You can do it...
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Old 01-26-2015, 06:19 AM   #8
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looks like you have woodworking tools and some mad skills! would really like more pics of the desk, as that is where i am now....................without the skill lol
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Old 01-26-2015, 07:22 AM   #9
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Quote:
Next I'm thinking long and hard about a propaneless bus, designing the electrical system (schematics forthcoming) with all LED lighting, Anybody ever done a bus without propane (except for the outdoor grill of course...) ?
I'm propaneless and don't full time heck, I'm not even finished yet although, I'm at a point where we do use it. I'm power hungry due to some of the inefficiencies of some of my systems. So except for overnights in transit, I pretty much have to be plugged in.

Heat--hot water radiant from diesel fired boiler.

Cooking--two induction hot plates and a convection/microwave combo.
My son has a two burner convection stove top that is 120V, problem is you don't get full power to either one if the are both on.

Domestic hot water--marine unit with 120V/heat exchanger from heating system.

Air conditioning--So far I have one of those portable units that is made to vent out of a window that I built in. It will cool bedroom and bathroom. At this point, I'm thinking the front air will be mounted above the windshield if I can figure a good way (not ugly) have it sticking out the front of the bus.

Refrigerator--12 CF apartment sized 120V running from a converter.

I have no illusions about being able to boondock for any period of time.
Generator will be diesel with 320A alternator charging a modest battery bank. The battery bank will handle the fridge, heat and cooking if I only use one appliance at a time.

Quote:
a high efficiency heat-pump AC/heater... that can all work.
This has been discussed a lot on various boards, not sure if anyone has done it successfully or economically

Quote:
I think each deep cycle battery is about 1kWhr and is good for 300-500 cycles. They will float charge when plugged in, recharge from the alternator and potentially solar. So at $50 bones a pop, maybe 16 batteries in parallel would be sufficient for an evening.
Really? You can get good, high amp hour batteries for $50, I'll take 6.
Your standard alternator on the bus ain't going to like that kind of load.

Quote:
Gotta' disconnect them from the starting batteries automatically... or three diodes between the alternator, starting batteries and service batteries.
Use a solenoid, a good one. Just do a web search for the reasons why.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=RV+diode+v...olation&t=ffsb

Woodworking lookin' good.

Dick
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Old 02-01-2015, 09:07 PM   #10
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Posts: 49
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Engine: DT466E
No woodworking this weekend...

Quote:
Originally Posted by claydbal View Post
looks like you have woodworking tools and some mad skills! would really like more pics of the desk, as that is where i am now....................without the skill lol
oops just sat down on sunday night to check in and didn't work on the desk at all. I'll post some pics when I get back to it.

The bus came on Wednesday... the first two nights were taking the seats out, the third was taking out all the finishing metal where I had to drill or grind half the screws off. There is this "Pro Heat" preheater and passenger heater installed, so they ran galvi channel all the way down the left side of the bus for 2x1" heater hose. down at the door... over the wheel wells etc. It must have been put in either OEM or when the bus was new because the stuff was rusted in pretty well.

Saturday ripping the floor up. WHAT A PITA! 3/4" plywood screwed down with stainless screws. I kept stripping them. NOTE: DONT TRY TO PULL THE VINYL UP FIRST! I tried this and it took ~3hrs to scrape it off the right side with a roof scraper... just to expose the screws. After unscrewing them... I figured. I'll take a crow-bar and try to break one piece of plywood to see what is under... BOOMSHAKALAKA! the whole pice came out and the screws just pulled through! So I went on to just use two crow-bars to rip that fricken' floor out. Once sore back later...

Then went on to taking the driver seat and all the metal around out. I found several stripped air control pinion strips, which will be a pain to find.

One trip to Lowe's on Saturday to get more insulation for the walls, birch ply, wire brushes, self-tappers and roof sealant.

On Saturday night my fun ended when I was using a wire brush to clean some of the pieces from around the driver console... and the angle grinder got caught on the edge of the piece and shot it through my glove and into my hand. the 45deg point went straight in about 1/4". It didn't bleed too much, but the fat looked like some nasty worms coming out once I cleaned it. I think my wife took a sadistic pleasure in dumping Peroxide on my hand and watching me squirm. (first person to tell me what that day old cut in the picture looks like wins...)

Today (Sunday) my brother came over and we wire brushed the whole floor, then welded in patches anywhere it was punky. Then vacuumed and wire brushed again. Finally I sprayed the whole floor with rubber roof sealer... to get it to cure I had all the windows shut and two propane heaters going. I was high as a kite when I got off my knees and walked off the bus.

I let that cure and picked through the piles of junk I have behind the barn and found enough 1" insulation to do the floor. I had pulled it out of an old house last year and fortunately it was in 8' x 22.5" strips. So Willa (my 11 yr old) and I cut it up and laid it down. (Of course after airing out the bus in the 5F weather... to get rid of the roof sealer smell).

Tonight I went back out and worked on laying the floor down until my hands were numb (its -5degF here now). I bought some 2" self tapper at $6.88 per pack of 25... so I used the screws sparingly.

So I missed my goal of having the whole thing insulated by the time the weekend was over, but **** happens... and I'll blame delay on the surprise rust on the floor. So I guess it'll have to wait until next time.

Oh, the wife has also picked a date for departure... March 19th.
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Old 02-01-2015, 09:09 PM   #11
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Join Date: Jan 2015
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Posts: 49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
A Big Skoolie Welcome! --- Don't know what you paid, but that looks like an outstanding platform to build on. And while I prefer the non "E" version, the 466 is a well proven motor and at 150K barely broken in. And scoring four belly bays is really icing on the cake. Keep the pix coming.

BTW...What tranny does it have?
I paid too much for it $8500... I would have been happy if it had not so much rust.

I don't know what transmission it has... I looked all over it and dont see any clear markings on it. Where is the name plate on those things? Or is it just a stamp like the old cars?
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Old 02-01-2015, 09:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
You clearly have the budget to spend, and you're 6'6"...
I'd be looking into a roof raisin'. You can do it...
Yeah, I think you are right... I just need to figure out how to do a 3/4 raise... i.e. keep the integrity of the roof where the driver and passengers sit (about 8ft back from front... then bump it up a foot or so for the back 20' where the kitchen, shower and bedroom are.

Shitty thing is I traded my plasma cutter last fall for an annual inspection on my airplane... wish I still had that machine. (got the plasma cutter on trade for a S&W .40 to a shady fellow... seriously who trades a $1000 plasma cutter for a $400 gun?...someone up to no good?) I guess I'll be cutting with a wheel.

A roof raisin' is definitely in the plans for this summer... I'm planning on not attaching anything to the roof (just the three vents through it) and only running minimal electrical in the channels above the windows.

It will be pretty well built out by then, but the videos I watched and some of the commentary here make it seem like a reasonable task (when its a bit warmer out).
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Old 02-02-2015, 08:41 AM   #13
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Your transmission should have a data plate somewhere on the driver's side. You could have one of several different models with the MD3060 the most likely.

If it is the MD3060 it most likely has 6th gear locked out so you only have one OD gear. The reargears on most school buses are so slow speed that in double OD the propeller shaft would be turning too fast. As a consequence Allison won't unlock the second OD gear.

If you PM your e-mail address and VIN# I can try and get your bus's build sheet
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:13 AM   #14
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A note on the Allison 6th gear (OD) lockout. On another forum I saw a note supposedly by a tranny tech that indicated the only reason Allison would not engage 6th gear was due to the speed rating on school bus tires. But, with an RV title and higher rated tires they would. He also stated that many independent tranny shops could and would do the job either way.

Anybody else familiar with this issue?
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Old 02-02-2015, 09:49 AM   #15
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Engine: C-8.3-300 Cummins MD3060
Rated Cap: 40 Prisoners
2nd Overdrive

I've seen many stick and staples forums where they have basically the same
drive train as our buses with 5.39 gears and the MD3060 transmission and
all speeds opened up so if a drive shaft over-speed were a problem would it
not happen on their vehicles as well. I think that the bus manufactures just
didn't want to accept liability for a vehicle hauling kits to do over 80mph so
they wrote it into the design parameters for some CYA. Many of the stick and
staples units are approaching and exceeding the GVW of a lot of our buses as well so the idea of braking an excessive amount of weight doesn't fly as
well. My bus has 5.38 gears and a MD3060 as well, where can I find a transmission shop to reprogram my computer to open up the 6th gear?
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Old 02-02-2015, 10:29 AM   #16
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Don't know where you are located, but a tranny tech with Allison here in Houston indicated that many big rig trans shops could handle most programming chores. ( I will need to get my TCM flashed once it is installed).

I Googled "Authorized Allison Transmission Repair" and found nine shops in my area. Try the link below...

http://www.allisontransmission.com/sales-service-locator
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:19 PM   #17
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Engine: DT466E
Cold Tuesday night on the bus... but Willa did a nice job cutting and drilling all the firing strips for electrical and plumbing... and the two of them worked together (without fighting) to get the insulation in one side.

Major bonus find tonight... I was getting ready to cut the rivets off all the interior sheet metal, but we cut a little inspection window instead... the walls are insulated! everybody told me that school buses aren't insulated, but this must be a "northern bus"... it has insulated walls AND a pony heater (and and engine block heater) sweet... So all we did was 1" insulation cut to fit. Quick and easy.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylebetaclark View Post
Cold Tuesday night on the bus... but Willa did a nice job cutting and drilling all the firing strips for electrical and plumbing... and the two of them worked together (without fighting) to get the insulation in one side.

Major bonus find tonight... I was getting ready to cut the rivets off all the interior sheet metal, but we cut a little inspection window instead... the walls are insulated! everybody told me that school buses aren't insulated, but this must be a "northern bus"... it has insulated walls AND a pony heater (and and engine block heater) sweet... So all we did was 1" insulation cut to fit. Quick and easy.
nah, nothing out of the ordinary.
People say that because whats in there really doesn't count as insulation.
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Old 02-04-2015, 07:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylebetaclark View Post
(first person to tell me what that day old cut in the picture looks like wins...)
I say it looks like serious ringworm.
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Old 02-04-2015, 08:37 AM   #20
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Vermont
Posts: 49
Year: 2003
Engine: DT466E
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
nah, nothing out of the ordinary.
People say that because whats in there really doesn't count as insulation.
got it... I guess the low expectation I had walking out there to cut off all that metal was a blessing. as a result I thought I had found candy.

As I was hacking around under the bus I was thinking of putting 3" of board insulation under the floor... then putting a thin sheet of Al attached to the bottom of the flanges. Is that done often? Insulating under the metal floor?
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