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Old 04-03-2019, 06:14 PM   #41
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Stansbury Park, Utah
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Year: 2000
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Chassis: GA39530
Engine: DT466E 215hp 620tq
Rated Cap: 40
We have a potty

made the composting toilet today. Its not completed and I cant install it until the FRP walls go in this weekend but its a good start. I need to cut the access hole on the side next to the seat for access to the peat moss/coconut husk material.
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:56 PM   #42
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Please post your build pictures for your composting toilet and your plan for it as a wet toilet.
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:13 PM   #43
Skoolie
 
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Year: 2000
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Chassis: GA39530
Engine: DT466E 215hp 620tq
Rated Cap: 40
We have a shower.

I grouted the shower and installed the FRP walls.
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Old 04-23-2019, 07:42 PM   #44
Skoolie
 
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Chassis: GA39530
Engine: DT466E 215hp 620tq
Rated Cap: 40
Engine work begins

I apologize its been so long since my last update, been preparing to start on the engine in-frame and collecting parts and de-cluttering the working area around the engine bay.

I scored a full width radiator and charge air cooler from an International 3800 bus and it fits perfectly.

Ive got the lifter dog bones to double up on the stock single dog bone.

Ive got the oil cooler gasket set too, and got the new transmission oil cooler. I will start on the head this weekend and replace the valve stem seals and lap the valves. Ive got one exhaust valve to change and lap into place. then the first and second weekends of May are set aside for installing the new cylinder liners, main bearings, rod bearings, new pistons and rings.

Im a bit terrified since this is the first in frame Ive ever done. We shall see how it goes.
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:25 PM   #45
Bus Nut
 
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Spend the money and have the head checked and done professionally
The valves are way to critical to not to.

Seriously.
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Old 04-23-2019, 09:28 PM   #46
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Lappin' valves is easy. Just turn the head upside down and pour gasoline in the recess where the valve head is. If you find it dripping down the stem, it needs more lapping. If it seals, you're done. A solid steel strait edge and a feeler gauge will tell you if your head needs resurfacing. If not, save the $$$...
And use gas, not water; it is thinner.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:31 AM   #47
Bus Nut
 
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Lapping is easy
What about setting the margins ?
What about guide replacement ?
What about topping or throating the seats to set the proper contact ?
What about checking installed height on the valve ?
Spring seat pressure?
Spring installed height ??
What if the valve has started to recess in the seat ?
And holding gas is not the same as being properly vacuumed check for seal.

Need more??

Been doing this a while

Spend the money have the head done right.

Edit by the way the seats and valves are so much harder now a day’s than when lapping first came out it takes a lot longer to “lap”.
At least by a quick way or neway cutter and save yourself a ton of time and headache
https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/nestdicubo.html
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:39 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seriousracer View Post
Lapping is easy
What about setting the margins ?
What about guide replacement ?
What about topping or throating the seats to set the proper contact ?
What about checking installed height on the valve ?
Spring seat pressure?
Spring installed height ??
What if the valve has started to recess in the seat ?
And holding gas is not the same as being properly vacuumed check for seal.

Need more??

Been doing this a while

Spend the money have the head done right.

Edit by the way the seats and valves are so much harder now a day’s than when lapping first came out it takes a lot longer to “lap”.
At least by a quick way or neway cutter and save yourself a ton of time and headache
https://www.cylinderheadsupply.com/nestdicubo.html

I would replace all the valves and springs with new ones, if the motor is that beat. No need to check for valve margin, if they are quality new valves. No need to check spring pressure if new quality springs. Valve height ain't hard to check, either.
Installed height ain't hard to check either....but

If the valve seat has recessed (or pitted or burned), I would think about a new head. If the seats need need topping or throating, then take it and spend the $250-$300 or more per head at an affordable shop.


valve guides may come out with a solid set of taps with a hammer, or may need to be pro-pressed out in a shop. The last time I asked my machine-shop guy to replace my guides, he told me not to bother, the play I though was "too much" was fine, and that he has replaced guides with new ones that had more play than mine. The time before that he told me the guides were so shot and locked into place, that they needed to be drilled out.



The old-schooler who was my boss taught me about using gasoline. If water can get by, you can blow through it with your mouth! If gas can not, it will be about as air-tight as you are going to get it! Show me the machine shop setup with a vacuum gauge setup for heads, and I'll show you a $800-$1000 head job! Are we competing in an Indy 500 race, or rebuilding a skoolie to get another 200K miles?


The first time I took a head to a machine shop was at a NAPA. A 1977 Honda Accord 1.8L CVCC engine. They re-assembled assembled it wrong! I knew next to nothing then (30 years ago) but I could see the mistakes, and took it back. They still did a poor job. I do all my own work on my own vehicles now, because most "shops" are just kids outta school.


Just because a "pro" does the work, does not mean it will be right! If you know a quality machinist with an excellent reputation who will help you at a reasonable price, then great! My experience has been NO ONE touches the mechanics of my truck except me, or the results are poor.


Last time I got a head from a "cylinder head supply shop" it was a damaged core that they had tried to push along (mass re-production) and I had to exchange it.

Last time I took a vehicle to a shop was my 1993 Mercury Villager that I traded for $300 to get the bus (can't drive 2 at once!). I put struts on it myself, and found minor end-play in the front (drive) wheel, rocking it from top-to-bottom. My van was in Atlanta, my tools in Hawai'i. I took ti to Sears and they said they would not replace the pressed in bearing because the bearing was not yet making noise! Fools! I took it to Tires Plus and they again told me the bearing was fine. Fools! I told them to rock it top-to-bottom, I was taking the van cross-country, and did not want to replace it on the road. They did it for a reasonable price (less than I charge).
How about the one time I took my vehicle for an oil change? They guy was trying to remove the filter for several minutes. I made an excuse to get into the pit with him, and saw he was tightening it. I said "let me try" and had it off in 10 seconds.
Or the time I was on the road and bad gas at a hole-in-the-wall station had my truck barely running. It was 40°F, raining, and my tools were buried under stuff, so I asked a shop to replace the filter on the side of the frame rail next to the tank - super simple, $20. They installed it backwards.
And I could go on with stories about "professionals" in the field.


The machinist I worked with in Hilo was great, though. Saved me headaches, since I was a mobile mechanic with no benchtop. Saved me time, all cost passed on to the client, while I focused on keeping happy the backlog of other clients. But I really doubt that for $250 for a duel-overhead cam head with 3 valves per cylinder that he spent the time perfecting the valve-seating or checking the spring pressure, when he was already re-surfacing the head, etc. And one setup he got back to me still had pitting in the valve edge. Seated fine, though the pits would affect air-flow and therefore air-fuel mixture into the cylinder, and therefore a (unnoticeable) loss in performance. But the car was not meant to be "racing".



When I started this whole game (repairing vehicles), yea, I agreed with you, seriousracer, but now I have learned better!



I trust myself more than a shop (most shops, anyway), even when I have to feel my way along in the dark and know nothing! But that's me and my experiences.



But if you want to sub-out your work to a "pro" machine shop, you're choice.
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:13 PM   #49
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Stansbury Park, Utah
Posts: 146
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: GA39530
Engine: DT466E 215hp 620tq
Rated Cap: 40
Engine update

I want to start by saying this could very well be done so much better than the budget Im on, I appreciate all the very relevant machinist perspective, I just cant do it that way. If I had my way Id be putting in a 360hp ISB 6.7 or a 400hp ISC but Im on a tight budget and although this isn't perfect It will do just fine. I'm spending the money where it needs to be.

I installed the second set of lifter dog bones, lapped the valves, replaced the stem seals, polished the rod journals, cleaned the block deck, cleaned the cylinder head, put a straight edge on it and its fine, pulled the old main bearings, and cleaned the oil cooler assembly.

Next is fitting the new liners in and checking for protrusion, and rolling the main bearings in. I should be able to pit the new pistons in this weekend and then install the head next weekend.

I get very little time to work on this machine but the anticipation to hear it run again is driving me. Im hoping to get it running and usable for a weekend camping trip by late fall or Christmas, it just might happen.
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Old 04-30-2019, 09:45 PM   #50
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Wow, there sure is not much space between the cylinders!
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Old 05-04-2019, 10:02 PM   #51
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Year: 1999
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Rated Cap: 26 foot
Someone please edjumacate me.
All that stuff about the valve margins, etc. Does that even matter so much in a diesel? They need to seal tight, for sure.


But in a gasoline motor, the gas needs to be vaporized and completely and thoroughly and homogenously mixed into the air for a good burn. To do this, the air must move quickly and smoothly passed the valves, and hopefully also swirl. The edges of the valves, the surface of the head they seal against all must be closer to perfect to achieve that. Three-angle cuts with with various angles on the valves, cam timing, and more, play into the way the air/fuel enters the cylinders for optimum burn.


With a diesel, you just gotta get the air in. The injector does the heavy hitting. Yea?



What am I missing here? I missed that you were working on a diesel the first time round....
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:15 AM   #52
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Yes it does matter setting a margin

Does a tapered thin piece of steel heat up quicker on the thin edge or on the thicker edge. That’s not good for longevity of a valve. This will also cause a “tuliped” valves. Yes diesels run hotter in combustion temps than gas motors by nature of compression. So all of what I stated matters.

Same with the seat in the head. Most common reason for seats to fall out besides severe overheating. Seat was cut wrong or a crack starts

Valve cooling happens when the valve rests on the seat by dissipating heat to the cylinder head through the valve seat. So contact area in the right areas will effect how long a valve will maintain a good seal.

I agree with Mountain gnome there are bad machine shops out there. And apparently he has had bunch of them. Paying to get a head done right will save a lot of money in long run.
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:27 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seriousracer View Post
Yes it does matter setting a margin

Does a tapered thin piece of steel heat up quicker on the thin edge or on the thicker edge. That’s not good for longevity of a valve. This will also cause a “tuliped” valves. Yes diesels run hotter in combustion temps than gas motors by nature of compression. So all of what I stated matters.

Same with the seat in the head. Most common reason for seats to fall out besides severe overheating. Seat was cut wrong or a crack starts

Valve cooling happens when the valve rests on the seat by dissipating heat to the cylinder head through the valve seat. So contact area in the right areas will effect how long a valve will maintain a good seal.

I agree with Mountain gnome there are bad machine shops out there. And apparently he has had bunch of them. Paying to get a head done right will save a lot of money in long run.
Thank you for the info. Makes sense. But I would still simply replace the valve with a new one if I saw wear. If the seat showed real wear, I would take it to a machine shop and say "do this part". I seem to have bad luck with every vehicle repair shop I deal with, my entire life, except for 2. One reason I became a mechanic myself. I ended up working for the tech at one when he opened his own shop. He fixed my Honda when I was 17 and only changed oil. There are some things I would have a machine shop do, but now only with my supervision.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:26 AM   #54
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Well one of the reasons I own all my own equipment
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:24 PM   #55
Skoolie
 
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Engine: DT466E 215hp 620tq
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Engine Updates

Just some update pictures of the inframe and the updated cooling package. Just finalizing the harness connections and some sensors Im replacing.

Next step is the painting of the roof and the solar panel installation, 6 panels to install with hinges and wired into the junction box.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:31 PM   #56
Skoolie
 
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Engine: DT466E 215hp 620tq
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Nothing to dramatic lately

So it has been slow going lately since the engine went together. I still have to rebuild the turbo, just got the new cartridge today for this weekend work load. So in the mean time I've been doing some plumbing and insulation work. I got some more Polyiso board and have been using it to insulate the walls and the ceiling and filling int he gaps with spray can foam, I've already been warned about spray can foam being open cell, dont care.

I was able to hook up the auxiliary transmission cooler as well, reused the existing return hose as the return from the new cooler on the drivers side and added a short hose from the outlet of the radiator to the cooler on the passenger side. Should help on those long mountain grades around here.

Just some pictures of the insulation progress.
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Old 06-03-2019, 04:14 PM   #57
Skoolie
 
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Year: 2000
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Engine: DT466E 215hp 620tq
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The latest update, for those that are interested.

So the engine is all done but wont start, wont even crank. Its an electrical issue probably related to the wires I pulled. Ive got diagrams so I just need to spend some time and find out what happened.

I got the plumbing done and the grey water is done too.

Just painted the roof with elastomeric paint, it needs a few more coatings then I can mount the solar panels and start the vast electrical wiring that needs to take place.

So much fun.
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Old 06-03-2019, 05:07 PM   #58
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Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
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Year: 2007
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Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyCircus View Post
Just some update pictures of the inframe and the updated cooling package. Just finalizing the harness connections and some sensors Im replacing.

Next step is the painting of the roof and the solar panel installation, 6 panels to install with hinges and wired into the junction box.
Did you have to alter/cut the radiator side mounts?
On mine they have a lip that holds them in on the front edge so you have to drop the bumper and remove the front panel to get them out.
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Old 06-03-2019, 06:21 PM   #59
Skoolie
 
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Year: 2000
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: GA39530
Engine: DT466E 215hp 620tq
Rated Cap: 40
No issue with radiator mount

No, I had no issues with the radiator side mounts. Im guessing this is in regard to the updated radiator and charge air cooler with the transmission cooler. I had no issue with the frame clearance.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:17 PM   #60
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Quote:
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No, I had no issues with the radiator side mounts. Im guessing this is in regard to the updated radiator and charge air cooler with the transmission cooler. I had no issue with the frame clearance.
I think we have the same model. When I tried to remove my radiator the chanel on the side brackets prevent the radiator from being removed from the front. It had to be dropped out of the groove. Yours appears to be different. Just wondering if you changed it or it’s just a different bracket.
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