68 ford and 61 chevy! Newbie wants advice!!

jibronee · 08-17-2008, 03:41 AM

Hello fellow bus owners!

I few months ago I purchased my first bus, a 1968 ford b500 superior 24 pass bus in great original condition, which my friends and I have had a blast cruising in!! In the last two days, I've noticed the clutch slipping on uphills in 3rd and 4th gear. How hard is it to replace the clutch myself? I've done a few engine/tranny swaps in mustangs and falcons, but never messed with any vehicles this size. I would like to know what type of 5 speed tranny, with OD(330 V8 medium duty motor), I can obtain to replace the 4 speed with. Also, I need to replace a leaking rear wheel cylinder. What type of breaker bar/socket do I need to use/buy and what are the torque setting of the nuts?

Just today, purchased a 61chevy wayne bus, 20 pass?, ! I know; I'm going crazy!! small block with 4 speed and has not run in almost 20 years. This bus I have no info on and I need to overhaul entire braking, steering, engine, etc! This bus needs new tires, everthing gone through, etc. Are there any wheel/rim/tire and braking upgrades that I can do? I've located an 1990 ford f250 7.3 diesel(non turbo) with auto/OD that I want to install if the chevy drivetrain is too costly to get going, plus I'd like some better mileage as well! Do/will I need to add another type of parking brake, in addition to the auto's park detent?

Thanks and happy bussing to all my new friends!!

crazycal · 08-17-2008, 04:07 AM

That is a very nice looking bus. Be careful throwing that "crazy" word around.

jibronee · 08-17-2008, 04:26 AM

Thanks crazycal!! I meant "crazy" as in we're normal and everyone else w/o buses is abnormal!!

paul iossi · 08-17-2008, 09:36 AM

your ford should have a New Process gear 435 trans, that vintage truck usually used trans with direct 1:1 high gears in both the 4 and 5 speed trans. You could either go to a 2 speed axle or find a newer trans such as the New Venture 4500 5 speed with OD and then match the pilot brg and clutch to the trans input shaft, also make sure that the bellhousing and input shaft length art compatable.
To change the clutch, first remove the shifter from inside the bus then pull the driveshaft and park brake linkage & speedo cable, 4 bolts at the bellhousing and pull the trans back and down(warning the trans weighs close to 200 lbs use a jack and helper) the clutch and flywheel assembly can be changed thru the bottom of the bellhousing which is also the rear motor mount. Make sure to check out the ring gear while you're in there now is the time if you have any doubts about its condition.
where are you located?
good luck

jibronee · 08-17-2008, 12:06 PM

Thanks for the info guys. I'm in the Central Coast, Calif. I bought the original Ford service manuals for trucks/busses and I think there were at least 2) 5speed trans(w/OD) available in 68. I was looking for something that would be bolt in w/minor fab work to be done. I'll give #'s of trans when I get to the shop were the manuals are at.

Thanks for the info guys!

jibronee · 08-17-2008, 08:16 PM

Sweet camping bus also! What type of engine/tranny configuration are you running?

the_experience03 · 08-17-2008, 10:34 PM

If I had to guess I would say the transmission that you're seeing in the literature is an old Clark 5 speed, most likely a 251VO. Beware though...it was used with both the Y-blocks and the FT's, but had a different case of each. They are not interchangeable.

The ratios are as follows
6.06/3.50/1.80/1.00/0.80/6.00R

You might be able to find one, but it isn't likely to be cheap. The offroad guys use them as a cheap alternative to the NV4500 although I'm not so sure it's a cheap alternative anymore.

A Clark 280 series might also be what the literature refers to and would work as well. Beware that the NP540 was around about this time. It's a 5 speed, but was offered in both a direct and OD 5th gear and going back and forth between them requires replacement of a lot of parts so it would just be easier to get the correct one in the first place.

No matter what you need to get a transmission that parts are available for. I think you'll have an easier time with a New Process/New Venture product or even a ZF transmission if you can make it work. The older Clark's are pretty much a dry well when it comes to replacement parts.

jibronee · 08-18-2008, 03:57 AM

The 68' manual shows 2 OD trannys:

5 speed new process 541-FO O/Dr. and a 5 speed Clark 280 VO O/Dr.

The 76' manual shows the same trannys as well except for the change from 541-FO to the 542-FO, and an added trans of Spicer 6453 Overdrive 5 speed.

I guess I'll keep my eyes open for these trans. Thanks for the help Experience! Anyone else have any info/advice, please let it flow!

paul iossi · 08-18-2008, 06:51 AM

when shoping for used transmissions the 2 most critical dimensions are input shaft length, ( it determines bellhousing depth, engine to trans distance)and the diameter of the input bearing retainer/trans hole in the bellhousing as this is the alignment pilot for the engine/transmission, both can be adjusted with either new parts or machine work, just be sure to know what parts are available before buying a replacement trans.
the other variable is total trans length, it is adapted with the length of the first piece of driveshaft.

jibronee · 08-18-2008, 12:42 PM

Very good info Paul; thanks!

timbuk · 08-18-2008, 07:34 PM

ok thats enough of the ford talk lets see the 61 chevy

the_experience03 · 08-18-2008, 07:38 PM

More on what Paul was saying...avoid IHC 280VO's and NP54x's. I know their input shafts are wrong. As for other companies (I'm SURE GM used NP54x's given New Process Gear's corporate roots) I'm not so sure so you're going to have to do some research.

jibronee · 08-19-2008, 01:03 AM

I'm a true ford fan by heart, and this is the first chevy I've ever owned(still can't believe I bought one, just don't know why?)! Forgot my camera when I paid for the 61 chevy. Going to get up there this week for some pics. The seller is giving me 30 days to retrieve it from his property; kind of in the boonies over an hour away from me.

I want to see some pics of the 54 ford and chevy short buses!

the_experience03 · 08-19-2008, 01:26 AM

You bought the Chevy because you appreciate the fact that they only used one bellhousing pattern on their trucks for the most part. Something about being able to unbolt the transmission from a 2009 Chevy and bolt it to the back of a 1941 235 I-6 truck engine (save for slight misalignment on one bolt) without a problem makes me smile. If you ever wondered what the legendary Chevy parts swapability was all about that might be a good start.

jibronee · 08-19-2008, 01:45 AM

I never knew that, but thanks for the info! The seller said it has the original 327 in it. I could not tell the difference between a 283/327/350 for the life of me; let alone any chevy engine! Ford, another story. I grew up working in a mustang restoration shop so I'm familiar with mustangs and falcons and had access to many, many parts and their interchangeability between models/years. I guess I'll start learning about chevy's now; and looking forward to it! Still leaning towards putting a 7.3 diesel and AOD into my chevy, though!!

the_experience03 · 08-19-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibronee

I never knew that, but thanks for the info! The seller said it has the original 327 in it. I could not tell the difference between a 283/327/350 for the life of me; let alone any chevy engine!

Without looking at casting numbers it really can be difficult. There are no major outward differences between the (let's see if I can do it) 262, 265, 267, 283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350, and 400 (momentary pause to count...yep, that's all 10 first generation SBC's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibronee

Still leaning towards putting a 7.3 diesel and AOD into my chevy, though!!

Oooffff! Really? An AOD? Why not one of those cool ZF 5 speeds Ford liked so much? Or better yet...a 6BT Cummins and an NV4500 or NV5600

jibronee · 08-19-2008, 02:02 AM

Damn, you are a chevy engine guy!! ahahaha!!!

I guess it's really not an AOD, but the auto OD tranny that comes behind the 7.3 I'm looking at. Don't have a lot of fund now and probably won't touch the Chevy bus until 2009; I'm booked up this year in projects, but slowly making some progress on them!

Kind of wanted to run the bus on veggie oil; do something different for the environment, plus save some $$ in my pocket book!

timbuk · 08-19-2008, 08:04 PM

a 61 chevy with a 327? first year for 327 is 62 so somethings up there......cant wait to see it....bubble hood?

jibronee · 08-19-2008, 09:11 PM

You got me on that one... What type of small block chevy could it have been in 61?

What do you mean by bubble hood?

jibronee · 08-20-2008, 02:34 AM

My buddy has a 60 4 door impala, white, 6 cyl, 3 on tree with OD! That thing just cruises every were!

Here's one of my favorite fords; the 60 and 61 starliner. Similar to the bubble top chevy, but this one is all stock:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-Gal ... enameZWDVW

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