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01-06-2010, 07:06 PM
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#1
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New England
Posts: 1,009
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Ward Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/MT643
Rated Cap: 77
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All right, I need some help from the people here
I know Thomases, I know Blue Birds...I know enough about Carpys to avoid them! However, there's an International Genesis with a Ward body for sale locally...anyone have a Genesis? If so, is it any good?
__________________
Jarlaxle
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Optimism is a mental disorder.
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01-07-2010, 10:53 AM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Grundy, Virginia
Posts: 632
Year: 1985
Coachwork: ThomasBuilt
Chassis: International Harvester S-1700
Engine: 9L IHC V-8 Diesel 180HP
Rated Cap: 60
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
I'm assuming he's referring to the welding issues that Carpenter buses had from the Indiana(?) plant in the late eighties? early nineties?.
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01-07-2010, 06:43 PM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: MASS
Posts: 449
Year: 1993
Coachwork: THOMAS
Chassis: SAFE-T-LINER
Engine: CAT 3116
Rated Cap: 83
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
I know here in Mass they completely outlawed the use of Carpenter bodies several years ago because they failed the rollover test. As for the Genesis/Ward body.. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the worst I would say they are about a 6 or 7.
My buddy works for a school bus company right down the road and has worked on a few of them.
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01-07-2010, 06:59 PM
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#4
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New England
Posts: 1,009
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Ward Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/MT643
Rated Cap: 77
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric von Kleist
I'm assuming he's referring to the welding issues that Carpenter buses had from the Indiana(?) plant in the late eighties? early nineties?.
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Pretty small issue to spread over an entire manufacturer if so. I'm wondering what auto manufacturer has never had a recall.
I own a bus from the "bad welds" production, and it's fine.
Smitty
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Major structural problems are hardly a small issue!
__________________
Jarlaxle
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Optimism is a mental disorder.
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01-07-2010, 08:10 PM
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#5
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: downriver, detroit mi
Posts: 794
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
Ward Gennisis, changed to AMTRAN, and is now an International/Navistar company under another name, still building busses, they are all buitl on an International truck chassis with international engines. I did a search a while back and they looked like a solid package to me, particularly interesting was the engine lineup with the dt466 at the top of the list.
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01-07-2010, 08:38 PM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New England
Posts: 1,009
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Ward Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/MT643
Rated Cap: 77
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
That's this one: it has a DT466 and an MT643.
__________________
Jarlaxle
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Optimism is a mental disorder.
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01-08-2010, 11:43 AM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 524
Year: 1993
Coachwork: AmTran
Chassis: IHC
Engine: Dt360
Rated Cap: 19
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul iossi
Ward Gennisis, changed to AMTRAN, and is now an International/Navistar company under another name, still building busses, they are all buitl on an International truck chassis with international engines. I did a search a while back and they looked like a solid package to me, particularly interesting was the engine lineup with the dt466 at the top of the list.
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I have a 1993 AmTran/Genesis on an IHC chassis, hasn't fallen apart yet.
I would search or ask at the School Bus Fleet forum for the straight dope.
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01-08-2010, 08:33 PM
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#8
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northeast CT
Posts: 201
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran RE
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
The Genesis has a good chassis, particularly if you get the 466/643 combo. Some in the industry aren't fans of the body, but as long as you thoroughly check for rust and other issues you should be ok.
As for Carpenters, it's hit or miss. I've seen some that were solidly built, but their quality control was inconsistent. The roof weld issue was only certain model years, but it was a major concern for school districts - buses have to meet rollover standards, among other strict requirements. The weld issue was discovered when a bus rolled over in FL and the roof separated, greatly increasing the injuries to the students aboard. For a camper, if you're comfortable with that risk go for it.
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01-09-2010, 09:26 AM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New England
Posts: 1,009
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Ward Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/MT643
Rated Cap: 77
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
I'm not comfortable with that risk, and I'm not willing to risk buying one & discover I have to repair a bunch of roof welds. Regarding the Genesis, how does it compare to, say, a Blue Bird TC2000 or a Thomas Saf-T-Liner?
__________________
Jarlaxle
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Optimism is a mental disorder.
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01-09-2010, 12:07 PM
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#10
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northeast CT
Posts: 201
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran RE
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 72
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Re: All right, I need some help from the people here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
I'm not comfortable with that risk, and I'm not willing to risk buying one & discover I have to repair a bunch of roof welds. Regarding the Genesis, how does it compare to, say, a Blue Bird TC2000 or a Thomas Saf-T-Liner?
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For a front engine I'd take the Blue Bird, all other things equal. All Americans are better than TC2000s (heavier-duty, usually more powerful engines, often higher price tags). It's mostly personal preference - I like the looks of a Blue Bird better than an AmTran/Genesis. They also seem more solid, less rattles and leaks, but a lot of that could be build quality on individual units I've seen. Most Thomas products are good, but I drive an 02 Thomas Saf-T-Liner EF at work and I have trouble finding a comfortable driving position, but that could just be me. Having driven all three, I was most comfortable in the Blue Bird. Blue Bird also seems the quietest for engine noise, but I'd suggest that anyone converting a front-engine transit build an extra console over the the doghouse (easily removable of course for fluid checks or major repairs), and insulate the hell out of it to keep noise and heat down.
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