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01-24-2017, 08:34 PM
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#21
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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What EastCoast said about the in-frame rebuild is one of the big advantages of the 8.3 over the 5.9.
In addition to that, they're also a great engine in general. They have all of the longevity and dependability of a 5.9, with considerably more power. And as far as fuel consumption, they get about the same economy in a given application. The bigger engine doesn't have to work as hard to push the bus down the road.
You mentioned parts availability for the 5.9 because of their use Dodge pickups. Cummins is pretty good about using the same parts on multiple engines when possible, do you might be surprised how much you can get for an 8.3 from Napa or Carquest.
Yeah, I ID'ed the engines by sight. For the transmissions, see my posts a little farther up in this thread.
As far as easily "sliding out" an engine? Maybe if you compare it to a front engine flat-front it's easy, but it won't be a walk in the park regardless of which engine it is. I guess an IC/AmTran RE might be harder because the radiator's behind the engine and would have to be removed, but I wouldn't want to pull any of these engines without a forklift. Even a 5.9 weighs over 1,100 lbs.
Hope all that's in some way helpful.
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01-24-2017, 08:40 PM
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#22
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 113
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I'm definitely aiming for an 8.3 at least. Have a lead foot and don't expect to ever go fast in a bus but if I could go a bit faster I'll take it. Along with all the other advantages which seem worth trying for one. Thanks for the info rameses
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01-24-2017, 08:42 PM
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#23
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearhawk
A Michigan Bus is not an option. I'm probably going to hold out for something from the Western States but Southwest is a bit far. I am not in a rush and just started learning. I have cash but also have a ton of time. In the mean time I want to learn all I can.
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Almost forgot about the rust part. Yeah, an Arizona bus will be incredibly rust free. I bought mine from a guy in Tennessee and was amazed by the condition of it until he told me he bought it from a school system in a small town outside of Phoenix.
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01-24-2017, 08:48 PM
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#24
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Wyoming
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameses
What EastCoast said about the in-frame rebuild is one of the big advantages of the 8.3 over the 5.9.
Hope all that's in some way helpful.
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Very helpful indeed.
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01-25-2017, 12:09 AM
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#25
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wutm8
I'm definitely aiming for an 8.3 at least. Have a lead foot and don't expect to ever go fast in a bus but if I could go a bit faster I'll take it. Along with all the other advantages which seem worth trying for one. Thanks for the info rameses
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An 8.3 is about the MOST you're gonna get in any modern, commonly available school bus.
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01-25-2017, 12:24 PM
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#26
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wutm8
i know that comes down to preference.... so im asking your preference. all ive been reading through it seems like folks travel trying to find a bus and all these are right here miles away from me with 3 days left on the auction. im going to go down, inspect for rust and find exact motor ( in the description all theyre say is cummins diesel) theyre all at about 100-125k miles. i know you guys get a lot of these questions but as much as im trying to pick up.. im about to spend all my savings on the damn thing and dont want to screw it up.. and im on a time crunch if im going to make this work (had a great job, needed brain surgery, lost my job, lost most everything else... not about to spend the next 30 years trying to get it all back) any help is much appreciated. if anyone enjoys this scouting stuff i would be glad to paypal someone 50 dollars if they lead me to the bus i pick up. looking for the largest bus i can find and it will do lots of traveling. looking for beautiful land in tn to park it on and build around it...
Public Surplus: Search an auction
i just turned into the guys i hated in my poker forums...
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At least one of them has a Cummins 8.3. You may want to look closer at these. If I didn't already have one, I would be on my way to look at them.
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01-25-2017, 01:10 PM
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#27
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
An 8.3 is about the MOST you're gonna get in any modern, commonly available school bus.
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Strange thing.... our flat-land county school district just auctioned off a bunch of early 2000's Thomas conventionals with cats.
A few were the 10 liter engines, no idea why they ever need engines that big around here.
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01-25-2017, 05:34 PM
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#28
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleO7
Strange thing.... our flat-land county school district just auctioned off a bunch of early 2000's Thomas conventionals with cats.
A few were the 10 liter engines, no idea why they ever need engines that big around here.
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The cat 10.4 isn't an extremely popular engine. Most of us look for big, non-cat straight six diesels.
The most common GOOD bus engines are the DT466 and the Cummins 8.3.
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01-28-2017, 09:08 PM
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#29
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Wyoming
Posts: 31
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Did the OP get any of these? I think several of us were watching these ones. They all seemed pretty nice.
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01-28-2017, 09:14 PM
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#30
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 113
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I got nothing bearhawk. Ended up not bidding as I went and checked out some Fe buses and now I think I have my heart set on one of those.
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01-28-2017, 09:22 PM
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#31
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wutm8
I got nothing bearhawk. Ended up not bidding as I went and checked out some Fe buses and now I think I have my heart set on one of those.
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That's what happened to me. I had my heart set on a RE.
The FE I ended up with is perfect for me.
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01-28-2017, 09:59 PM
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#32
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Wyoming
Posts: 31
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It does seem the FE ones go for less money, that's for sure.
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01-28-2017, 10:38 PM
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#33
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wutm8
I got nothing bearhawk. Ended up not bidding as I went and checked out some Fe buses and now I think I have my heart set on one of those.
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If you're anticipating spending any appreciable amount of time on the road with your bus, I'd strongly urge you to get behind the wheel and test drive both an RE and an FE before committing to buying an FE. Then weigh the difference in the ride quality against the value of an extra 14 square feet in an FE. It's all personal preference, but it's good to have first hand experience to draw on for your decision.
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01-28-2017, 11:23 PM
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#34
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 113
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I don't think it was just the 14 square feet. I really want to use the back as a bit of a garage. Beyond that engine noise is something I'm very used to and doesn't bother me. Regardless, it is something I should do, I'll be able to work out the garage either way
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01-29-2017, 05:03 AM
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#35
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameses
If you're anticipating spending any appreciable amount of time on the road with your bus, I'd strongly urge you to get behind the wheel and test drive both an RE and an FE before committing to buying an FE. Then weigh the difference in the ride quality against the value of an extra 14 square feet in an FE. It's all personal preference, but it's good to have first hand experience to draw on for your decision.
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With air ride my FE has a very nice ride. For a school bus that is.
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01-29-2017, 09:43 AM
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#36
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 855
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: Cummins 8.3/Allison MD3060
Rated Cap: 84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB
With air ride my FE has a very nice ride. For a school bus that is.
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I'm envious. That's the one thing I wish my bus has that it doesn't. I've thought about putting a Peterbilt air-leaf in it. If that ever happens it'll be years down the road, after everything else is finished though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wutm8
I don't think it was just the 14 square feet. I really want to use the back as a bit of a garage. Beyond that engine noise is something I'm very used to and doesn't bother me. Regardless, it is something I should do, I'll be able to work out the garage either way
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Gotcha. There's definitely something to be said for the utility of those big rear doors. I'm used to engine noise, too. (My daily driver is an F650 rollback that I use for moving equipment and dumpsters.) But being used to it doesn't mean I wouldn't still prefer not to deal with it.
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01-29-2017, 11:02 AM
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#37
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,259
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 8.3 Cummins ISC
Rated Cap: 75
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Our entire fleet at work is FE Bluebird All Americans. While they're nice, the engine noise/heat gets old after awhile. The newer ones (2013+) are quieter but still loud enough to be tiring.
Whenever I take a longer charter trip the engine noise/heat really gets annoying after 2 hours of driving. We also don't order air ride seats on our buses. The standard drivers' seats Bluebird uses get REALLY uncomfortable after more than an hour of driving.
So my experience as a school bus driver has taught me two things. (1) Rear engine buses only for me, and (2) Air ride driver's seat!
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01-29-2017, 12:22 PM
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#38
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Skoolie
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 113
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01-29-2017, 02:04 PM
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#39
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIbluebird
Our entire fleet at work is FE Bluebird All Americans. While they're nice, the engine noise/heat gets old after awhile. The newer ones (2013+) are quieter but still loud enough to be tiring.
Whenever I take a longer charter trip the engine noise/heat really gets annoying after 2 hours of driving. We also don't order air ride seats on our buses. The standard drivers' seats Bluebird uses get REALLY uncomfortable after more than an hour of driving.
So my experience as a school bus driver has taught me two things. (1) Rear engine buses only for me, and (2) Air ride driver's seat!
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Ever driven one with air ride suspension?
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01-29-2017, 04:00 PM
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#40
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Bus Geek
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,401
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
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Wutm8,
IMHO: That is one FINE looking bus!
RE, 8.3, MD3060 etc. From the pics it looks really clean. Personally, if it looks as good in person as it does in the pics I would spend $5k on it. Some may give me grief for it but I see people buying buses regularly for $2k-$3k that need some manner of work and don't have the features/drive train that this one has.
I paid about $3500 for my 2002 All American RE and it has some body damage. Otherwise it is very similar to this one. I think that spending a few more dollars on the "foundation" to get what you want is generally worth it.
I will also jump on the "me too" bus when it comes to the increased comfort level of a RE bus on longer trips. I have owned two RE's and one FE. Comfort, ride and noise are significantly different.
Best of luck on your purchase!!
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