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Old 03-10-2006, 01:21 AM   #1
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Bass ackwards drive train?

One more weird brainstorm -- I need to understand this stuff.

Let's say I get a roaring cheap deal on a pusher with a healthy 3208 / 643. But I don't want a pusher. So I find a front engine bus with a bum engine. Can I put the good engine in the front of the other bus, or does the engine in the pusher turn backwards?

I can visualize the rotation, but I don't know if they make "forward" and "backward" differentials, or just one kind of diff and reverse the engine.

Much obliged,
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Old 03-10-2006, 10:17 PM   #2
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Engine rotation is the same. From what I've been told by my local diesel mechanic, the only thing that is "reversed" is the final drive in the rear axle. The worst you should have to deal with, is having to possibly swap out brackets so that the pusher engine can be crammed in the forward control busses engine hole.
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:06 AM   #3
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We seem to have established that the circa 1980 IH Loadstar DID come with a 3208 as an optional engine, so it should physically fit between the frame rails. And we know how to weld quarter inch mild steel. Then this may be a realistic fall-back option if I wind up with the pusher. (It is three blocks from my house -- how can I not make at least a low-ball bid?! Yes, this is a behavioral disorder .)

Thanks for the info!
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Old 03-12-2006, 05:09 PM   #4
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Afraid so -- but I would like to emphasise the spelling: Mechaniacal Disorder (see avatar)
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Old 03-12-2006, 06:58 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess
We seem to have established that the circa 1980 IH Loadstar DID come with a 3208 as an optional engine, so it should physically fit between the frame rails. And we know how to weld quarter inch mild steel. Then this may be a realistic fall-back option if I wind up with the pusher. (It is three blocks from my house -- how can I not make at least a low-ball bid?! Yes, this is a behavioral disorder .)

Thanks for the info!
Since it sounds like you're building a conventional chassis, and not a forward control transit type (front engine), then fitment issues with the Cat engine shouldn't be any problem, beyond the engine mounts, and coupling to the tranny - unless you swap both as a unit, then it's all mounting.
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Old 03-12-2006, 07:37 PM   #6
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Thanks, Wolfman! I'm still juggling brainstorms. I already own a 1981 IH S1700 "Loadstar" conventional, but haven't gotten it home yet -- carb flooded when I went to pick it up. I would certainly be interested in a Bluebird Forward Control! In 24 hours we'll know if my low-ball gets me the rear-engine Gillig.
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Old 03-12-2006, 11:47 PM   #7
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Just a reference point...I have in fact heard of some old 2 cycle detroits being set up to turn "backwards" in some old coaches, but I think this is just because of the nature of the motor. Since they sometimes like to run away running backwards on their own, designing them to run backwards seems like a reasonable easy thing to do.
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Old 03-13-2006, 12:40 AM   #8
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Yes, I have also read about backwards-running Detroit setups. Perhaps those are the transverse mounted engines? So much to learn.

Incidentally, I think almost any diesel engine can run backwards accidentally. I have had it happen twice in 24 years of driving 18-wheelers. Seemed to be caused by "bumping" the starter just enough to get one cylinder to fire, but not enough to get it up to enough cranking speed to maintain rotation. With a cylinder firing just before top dead center and very little speed, the engine changed direction rather than carrying thru TDC. Two gears forward; 13 reverse! No oil pressure. Slightly unusual engine sound. Shut off, restart, no harm done.
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Old 03-13-2006, 12:44 AM   #9
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The reason there was no oil pressure is because the engine was using the oil as fuel (as well as the pump not working in reverse) I know of atleast one 3-53 in a skidder that died because of running backwards...the operator turned the key off, but it just started sucking the oil past the rings. The only thing that was going to stop it was a BIG phonebook in front of the air intake to try and choke it down. Unfortunately the phonebook as too little too late. The oil pan was masterfully redecorated including the addition of some nice new windows and some bright shining metal shavings
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Old 03-13-2006, 04:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess
Incidentally, I think almost any diesel engine can run backwards accidentally. I have had it happen twice in 24 years of driving 18-wheelers. Seemed to be caused by "bumping" the starter just enough to get one cylinder to fire, but not enough to get it up to enough cranking speed to maintain rotation. With a cylinder firing just before top dead center and very little speed, the engine changed direction rather than carrying thru TDC. Two gears forward; 13 reverse! No oil pressure. Slightly unusual engine sound. Shut off, restart, no harm done.
I had that happen once, exactly the way you stated, and it was with a Detroit 471 in a crane. Those two stroke Detroits were good for doing that. Didn't hurt anything except my underwear.
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