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Old 01-23-2019, 03:14 AM   #1
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Batteries

Hey I was wondering I have 2 big batteries to start and run my dt 466. I am considering of buying a 3rd but am also looking for a maintainer as well. I have a few questions tho.

1. If I buy a third battery, is it okay to just buy one and wire it with the others, or would it be best just to buy 3 brand new ones?

2. How big of a maintainer should I get, I heard it's better to charge them slower, but don't know if that is true?

3. Recently tried to start the bus without it plugged in in 10 degree weather (STUPID) and had drained the batteries, is there a decent jump starter out there that could provide that much power without breaking the bank?

Thanks!
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Old 01-23-2019, 07:12 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzckary View Post
Hey I was wondering I have 2 big batteries to start and run my dt 466. I am considering of buying a 3rd but am also looking for a maintainer as well. I have a few questions tho.

1. If I buy a third battery, is it okay to just buy one and wire it with the others, or would it be best just to buy 3 brand new ones?

2. How big of a maintainer should I get, I heard it's better to charge them slower, but don't know if that is true?

3. Recently tried to start the bus without it plugged in in 10 degree weather (STUPID) and had drained the batteries, is there a decent jump starter out there that could provide that much power without breaking the bank?

Thanks!
I had a mechanical DT. It would start at 10f with one battery.
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Old 01-23-2019, 10:22 AM   #3
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Best to get a battery charger on them ASAP so they don't freeze. Discharged batteries will freeze if it gets cold enough. If you cant get to the bus with an extension cord pull the batteries out and get them to where you can charge them. I not aware of any jumper pack large enough to start a bus.

If using the correct size battery for you bus 2 should be all the battery you need for starting. If you are wanting more capacity for house loads build a separate bank with deep cycle batteries.


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Old 01-23-2019, 12:08 PM   #4
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My opinion (some may disagree), you should replace your start batteries as a group. A worn out battery will bring down a fresh one and will decrease the lifespan of both. Since they're only being used for starting the bus, you don't need to go crazy. A couple cheap Group 27 or Group 31, you can even go deep cycle and still get them around $100 each. That's plenty of power to start a bus that doesn't have other issues. If your bus is hard to start, you should address that problem instead of trying to mask it with massive batteries.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:15 PM   #5
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To my knowledge or lack thereof, deep cycle batteries are not starting batteries. Not for cold weather starts.



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Old 01-23-2019, 12:18 PM   #6
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To my knowledge or lack thereof, deep cycle batteries are not starting batteries. Not for cold weather starts.
John

Deep cycle batteries are just regular batteries that are able to be drained down a bit farther before they get damaged. They're great for starting batteries especially in cold environments where the voltage drop due to temperature kicks in. You would be hard pressed to find a boat or a bus that didn't use a deep cycle for its starting battery!
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:33 PM   #7
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There is a significant difference between deep cycle batteries and starting batteries.

The number of plates and the thickness of the plates.

If you go to Walmart and look at "marine/deep cycle" they are not a true deep cycle but a hybrid. A compromise between starting and deep cycle.

True deep cycle batteries are not suitable for starting batteries.
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Old 01-23-2019, 12:37 PM   #8
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There is a significant difference between deep cycle batteries and starting batteries.

The number of plates and the thickness of the plates.

If you go to Walmart and look at "marine/deep cycle" they are not a true deep cycle but a hybrid. A compromise between starting and deep cycle.

True deep cycle batteries are not suitable for starting batteries.

I'll go with this having 2 diesel vehicles and a boat with twin turbo-diesels.


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Old 01-23-2019, 12:54 PM   #9
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My Dt466E has no problem starting on the single battery, why need 3?
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:10 PM   #10
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My e450 cutaway had 2 group 27's. My Eagle and my Bluebird both came with 3 group 31's.

I have done some work on other buses that had 2 8D starting batteries. Much bigger battery than a group 27 or 31.
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Old 01-23-2019, 01:16 PM   #11
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Mine has 2 8D's in series (24V system). However, my engine is a DD Series 60....
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Old 01-24-2019, 02:40 AM   #12
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thank you

Thanks for the advice, however, I am still looking for a battery maintainer.... anyone got 2 cents about that?
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:48 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by alexzckary View Post
Thanks for the advice, however, I am still looking for a battery maintainer.... anyone got 2 cents about that?
I have one of these.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07894CFCR...8341101&sr=8-6

Its wired to the battery terminal clamps and lives in the battery box.

Ted
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzckary View Post
Hey I was wondering I have 2 big batteries to start and run my dt 466. I am considering of buying a 3rd but am also looking for a maintainer as well. I have a few questions tho.

1. If I buy a third battery, is it okay to just buy one and wire it with the others, or would it be best just to buy 3 brand new ones?

2. How big of a maintainer should I get, I heard it's better to charge them slower, but don't know if that is true?

3. Recently tried to start the bus without it plugged in in 10 degree weather (STUPID) and had drained the batteries, is there a decent jump starter out there that could provide that much power without breaking the bank?

Thanks!
1. A 3rd battery is more of a luxury then a necessity. The correct way is to install batteries in groups. Test all 3 batteries for their reserve capacity, and if they're the same, you can get by with buying just one. However, just about everybody installs them as groups. Group 31 is the most commonly used size.

2. A simple maintainer is all that is needed, you don't need to overthink it. Go with either battery tender or schumacher brand. You can get one cheap at walmart.

3. Have your batteries tested, they're likely on their way out. No such thing as a portable jump starter for a bus or semi. You can't package enough amps into something that small. We just use an 8d battery with a good set of jumper cables.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:51 AM   #15
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the mechanical DT466 is only designed to start on its own down to 20f, otherwise it should have a block heater or coolant heater attached..



how much cranking did you get bewfore the betteries were flat? if you only got a few seconds, the batteries were either low to begin with or are dying..



ive started my DT360 down to 0f. but it was tough going and probably hard on my starter and batteries doing it..



if you are planning to use your bus in cold weather, its worth looking into an engine heater of some sort.. and a battery maintainer is good as well.

-Christopher
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Old 01-24-2019, 12:23 PM   #16
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This has me curious.

I wonder how many starting batteries other folks have that are running the 8.3?

I have 3 group 31's in mine.
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Old 01-24-2019, 01:17 PM   #17
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This has me curious.

I wonder how many starting batteries other folks have that are running the 8.3?

I have 3 group 31's in mine.
2 8D for my 8.3

Ted
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:38 PM   #18
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The reason why buses have two 8D or 3 Group 31 batteries has nothing to do with how much juice they need to get started. One Group 24 battery is sufficient if it isn't too cold to start most modern diesel engines.


Buses have huge battery banks because of how much juice is used when the bus is idling. Whether it is a coach trying to power up lights, video/sound systems, A/C or a school bus trying to power up headlights, crossover lights, interior lights, and 8 or 10 heater/defroster/blower fans it takes a LOT of juice.



Even if you have a 150 AMP alternator, at idle you will be lucky if it is putting out 100 AMPS. If you do a power inventory, with all of the accessories going you are probably using up more than 100 AMPS. Without a lot of battery reserve power the bus would run out of juice fairly quickly.



Years ago we had a bunch of IHC Loadstar chassis buses with one group 31 battery. We couldn't figure out why after any long weekend or vacation we needed to jump start them. We did a power inventory. All of the buses had 90 AMP alternators that at idle were putting out around 65 AMPS. With all of the lights on and the blowers going we were using up 75 AMPS. Which meant that at idle we were pulling more out of the battery than the alternator was putting back in. On a daily basis the surface charge was more than sufficient to start the bus. But after three or more days the surface charge wasn't sufficient to start the bus any longer. We swapped out all of the 90 AMP alternators for 150 AMP alternators and never had any other problems.



I suppose what I am saying is for most buses, one good Group 31 battery has more than enough cold cranking amps to start most modern diesel engines. There are some Group 31 batteries that have a CCA rating higher than some 8D batteries. Spend the extra $$$ for the good Group 31. And then get some good deep cycle batteries for the house system.



If you wire stuff up correctly the bus alternator can charge the house batteries while you are traveling but taking juice out of the house batteries will not discharge the start battery.



As far as battery maintainers are concerned, make sure it is a smart charger so that it will float a minimal charge once the batteries are charged up and won't overcharge the batteries.


When it is really cold out and you haven't started your bus in a while putting a charger on the start battery(s) is a very good idea. Warming up the battery will increase the CCA's that are available. Batteries are rated at 70*F. At 30* most batteries are only able to provide half the rated CCA's.
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Old 02-02-2019, 08:29 PM   #19
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Genius

I use Genius brand battery tenders. You can choose your size. I'd use one of the 7 amp units. Would bring low batteries back in a reasonable time and still has the controls to protect the batteries. They also make a pigtail that is fused and mounts into the dash in a blank rectangle switch hole. The dash end has state of charge indicator LEDs and you plug in the tender to that dash plug. Really thought out and convenient.
IMHO. ����
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