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Old 04-25-2019, 04:00 PM   #21
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 668
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
First, thank you all for the info and advise. Most of it is what I've gleaned from other places, but it is very nice to hear from people who've "been there, done that" - especially with respect to cribbing (firemen, my hat off to you!).


Second, I've ordered and received most of my first-round tools:


1. 2 of Harbor Freight's 20 ton bottle jacks:
https://www.harborfreight.com/20-ton...ack-95553.html


2. 2 of Amazon's 22-ton jack stands:
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-1780-Jack...gateway&sr=8-3


3. 2 sets of 2 (total of 4) wheel chocks:
https://www.uscargocontrol.com/2-Rub...y-Handle-8x6x8


3. 4x4 cribbing - I'll buy the day of (which may be as early as this Saturday) on an as-needed basis - I'm hoping the jack stands will do all I need, but I probably will get cribbing to set my jacks and wheels on.



4. 6-gallon pancake compressor - max pressure of 165 psi (however, only going for 120).


Third, I'm going to try to do the jacking without airing up the pneumatic system first. I'm concerned that using the pancake compressor for such a job will kill it. I don't have access to a more "robust" compressor at the moment. I'm also concerned that the humidity will get into my air lines if my air dryer doesn't work (as the engine won't be running and the electrical system will be off). However, my air valve in the engine compartment goes to the muffler tank, which is the first tank air goes to coming from the engine compressor, so if the air dryer does work then I'm "home free" on that front.


----------


Order of operations:
1. Chock front wheels.
2. Position bottle jacks under the "hoisting points".
3. If I can't get them there, then I'll try the "jacking points".

4. If that isn't successful, then I'm going to have to air up the bus and try 2 and 3 again.
5. If I'm still not successful, then I'm going to ... eh, come up with another way to jack....
6. Once the bus is in the air, I'm going to try to get it high enough to get the jack stands under it. I'll also put cribbing under the wheels to try and stabilize.
7. If I can't get under at that point, then I'll air down the bottle jacks, crib them, and lift again. Either move the jack stands up a hole or two or crib them, along with cribbing the wheels. Rinse & repeat until I can get under - safely.

I eventually want a minimum of three points of contact (and preferably 4) on both sides: 1. chocked front wheels; 2. jack stand, 3. bottle jack, and 4. cribbed back wheel(s). (I don't think the cribbed back wheels are absolutely necessary if I have the jacks in the right place, but it certainly will give me more peace-of-mind in crawling under 30k+ lbs. of steel and machinery....


Thoughts???
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:07 PM   #22
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Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: south east BC, close to the Canadian/US border
Posts: 2,004
Chassis: still looking for my bus
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyDee View Post
First, thank you all for the info and advise. Most of it is what I've gleaned from other places, but it is very nice to hear from people who've "been there, done that" - especially with respect to cribbing (firemen, my hat off to you!).


Second, I've ordered and received most of my first-round tools:


1. 2 of Harbor Freight's 20 ton bottle jacks:
https://www.harborfreight.com/20-ton...ack-95553.html


2. 2 of Amazon's 22-ton jack stands:
https://www.amazon.com/OTC-1780-Jack...gateway&sr=8-3


3. 2 sets of 2 (total of 4) wheel chocks:
https://www.uscargocontrol.com/2-Rub...y-Handle-8x6x8


3. 4x4 cribbing - I'll buy the day of (which may be as early as this Saturday) on an as-needed basis - I'm hoping the jack stands will do all I need, but I probably will get cribbing to set my jacks and wheels on.



4. 6-gallon pancake compressor - max pressure of 165 psi (however, only going for 120).


Third, I'm going to try to do the jacking without airing up the pneumatic system first. I'm concerned that using the pancake compressor for such a job will kill it. I don't have access to a more "robust" compressor at the moment. I'm also concerned that the humidity will get into my air lines if my air dryer doesn't work (as the engine won't be running and the electrical system will be off). However, my air valve in the engine compartment goes to the muffler tank, which is the first tank air goes to coming from the engine compressor, so if the air dryer does work then I'm "home free" on that front.


----------


Order of operations:
1. Chock front wheels.
2. Position bottle jacks under the "hoisting points".
3. If I can't get them there, then I'll try the "jacking points".

4. If that isn't successful, then I'm going to have to air up the bus and try 2 and 3 again.
5. If I'm still not successful, then I'm going to ... eh, come up with another way to jack....
6. Once the bus is in the air, I'm going to try to get it high enough to get the jack stands under it. I'll also put cribbing under the wheels to try and stabilize.
7. If I can't get under at that point, then I'll air down the bottle jacks, crib them, and lift again. Either move the jack stands up a hole or two or crib them, along with cribbing the wheels. Rinse & repeat until I can get under - safely.

I eventually want a minimum of three points of contact (and preferably 4) on both sides: 1. chocked front wheels; 2. jack stand, 3. bottle jack, and 4. cribbed back wheel(s). (I don't think the cribbed back wheels are absolutely necessary if I have the jacks in the right place, but it certainly will give me more peace-of-mind in crawling under 30k+ lbs. of steel and machinery....


Thoughts???


don't trust the jacks - make sure the bus is at least on the jack stands AND the jacks - cribbing as well to be safe
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Old 05-07-2019, 12:33 PM   #23
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 668
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
With the bus not up on its air springs, the body is 8" above the ground. The bottle jacks are 10.25" tall. The jack stands are 12" tall.


So unless I can find a "cavity" where I can get the jacks under and set back upright, it seems I'm going to have to pressurize the system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
don't trust the jacks - make sure the bus is at least on the jack stands AND the jacks - cribbing as well to be safe

Will do!


My plan was to have the bus settle on the jack stands as well as under-wheel cribbing once I have it at a satisfactory height. I'll keep the bottle jacks under as well, but I would like to keep the weight off of them if possible. However, I'll keep the "plunger" up by the lift points for a little bit more margin of safety (very, very little)....
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Old 05-18-2019, 02:33 PM   #24
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 668
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Ok, I decided to try pressurizing the pneumatic system with my little pancake compressor. But this happened:





The air connectors weren't the same.


I didn't know that there are three different types - ARO, Industrial, and Automotive. My air hose and compressor are Industrial. The connector on the bus is ARO.


Ok, quick search on Amazon and I find this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MB8YNFS


So I connect it all up:


AND IT WORKS!!!



My little pancake compressor pressurized the pneumatic system to 100psi in about 20 minutes! I was expecting to basically burn my little compressor out....


Oh, and my bus gained about 3"-4" in height being up on its springs. I haven't tried setting the jacks underneath yet. That'll come later.


One thing surprised me - my air-powered door shut on me when my front accessory tank filled. I can't get it open until the pneumatic system leaks away.


And my air dryer sneezed all over me. I was down looking under the bus and "psssssss....". I'm glad it was directed downwards or I might have lost an eye....
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Old 05-18-2019, 03:14 PM   #25
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,583
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyDee View Post
One thing surprised me - my air-powered door shut on me when my front accessory tank filled. I can't get it open until the pneumatic system leaks away.


And my air dryer sneezed all over me. I was down looking under the bus and "psssssss....". I'm glad it was directed downwards or I might have lost an eye....

Until the air door manages to retain the air pressure somehow ....


As for the air dryer, lesson learned, thankfully with no lasting harm done. Everyone else should learn from this.
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Old 05-18-2019, 04:58 PM   #26
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 668
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
As for the air dryer, lesson learned, thankfully with no lasting harm done. Everyone else should learn from this.

Yes - it was quite a shock when it blew. Left quite a divot in the gravel. I wondered if the air dryer was completely mechanical, but even still I thought it needed electricity to work. Well, I was wrong.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:40 PM   #27
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 806
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Could you not hook up your air hose and open the petcock WITHOUT having the compressor connected? That should drain the air pressure.
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Old 05-19-2019, 08:37 PM   #28
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 668
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Could you not hook up your air hose and open the petcock WITHOUT having the compressor connected? That should drain the air pressure.

I think the petcock has been open ever since I got the bus. Usually valves are closed when their handles are perpendicular and open when the handles are parallel to the valve body. Well, I found out that this one is opposite. When I twisted it to parallel, my little pancake compressor built pressure. When it was perpendicular, it lost pressure down to the pressure the gauges on my dashboard were reading (praise God for analog gauges!). At one point when I still only had about 20psi in the system and the handle was perpendicular I had removed the airhose and felt air exiting. When I twisted it to parallel the air stopped.



Also, I've had sluggish pneumatic response ever since I got the bus - not outside of specs, mind you, but certainly approaching the limits. I resigned myself to having to search the bus to find the leak or leaks. Well, when I closed the petcock and shut off my compressor, I didn't hear ANY air leaks! I think this has been the leak I've been looking for!
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:31 AM   #29
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 806
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkyDee View Post
Also, I've had sluggish pneumatic response ever since I got the bus - not outside of specs, mind you, but certainly approaching the limits. I resigned myself to having to search the bus to find the leak or leaks. Well, when I closed the petcock and shut off my compressor, I didn't hear ANY air leaks! I think this has been the leak I've been looking for!

One would think that you did find the "leak". I find it amazing that your compressor built any pressure at all.


Congratulations!
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Old 05-20-2019, 05:28 AM   #30
Site Team
 
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: The West
Posts: 990
Year: 1998
Coachwork: MCI
Chassis: 102 EL3
Engine: DD 60
Good stuff Marky! Glad it worked as hoped. It sounds like your pneumatic door does not have an external switch?? Mine has a push button/pad thing for opening and closing from the outside. It requires air pressure and the master electrical switch open. As an aside, I also have a pneumatic valve at the dash to remove pressure to the door. I normally close this (remove air pressure from the door) for parked/camping/living mode and swing the door by hand (using the manual latch and key lock to secure it). When traveling/driving, I use the pneumatic feature.
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