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Old 11-29-2011, 03:44 PM   #1
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Bus windows

Hey peoples....Need some advise.

I am collecting pieces to put in the bus. I am not going to use RV windows. They dont seem to be very effieicnt when it comes to heat and cooling.

I am looking at windows from Home Depot. I think they are 24x35? Yes I know I should use a tempered glasss but I will have window tinting on them so I am hoping in the VERY unforseen event they break.

My question is most of the windows open vertically? Is there going to be any issue installing them horizontally?

The guy there said there is an internal spring weight to take out so things dont slam?

Let me know your thoughts and input please. I am collection insulation and windows.... Im planning on windows first then insualting the inside so we can trim accordingly.


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Old 11-29-2011, 06:30 PM   #2
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Re: Bus windows

Quote:
Originally Posted by bapos
Hey peoples... Need some advise... I am not going to use RV windows. They don't seem to be very efficient when it comes to heat and cooling. I am looking at windows from Home Depot...
Unless you are going to use a gas filled dual or triple pane window all glass is the same. The R-value of single pane glass is R1. The R-Value for dual pane Glass is R2. R values for windows is very misleading. The frames is where the difference comes in. Window manufacturers take their reading an inch from the edges of the frame. If you have aluminum framed, you basically have a lovely heat sink built into your window. This results in a low reading. Wood,or PVC vinyl has more insulating value and results in a higher reading. My suggestion would be to go with a single pane glass. If you are going to use metal framed, try to put a thermal break between the outer frame of the window. Do not use wood. While we have had very little trouble with water vapour here in NM, that is not the case in many parts of the country. Daily living (cooking , bathing and breathing) generates lots of water vapour in addition to the normal humidity of the location you are in. Sometimes dehumidifiers have a hard time keeping up. I would suggest that you get a single pane window, trim out in PVC "wood" trim (so the trim does not dicolur and/or rot from the moisture that will collect in the windows) and then use either ordinary bubble wrap or Reflectix heat barrier. Going to a dual pane glass is silly unless you are also replacing that huge slab in the front of the bus (the single pane windshield). The clear bubble wrap will let light in while providing insulation. The R Value of the clear bubble wrap is only about 0.2 less than Reflextix and doesn't make it seem like you are in a dark cave.


To quote Fred Hobe (a professional coach converter)
Quote:
"WHAT KIND OF WINDOWS SHOULD I BUY

This question normally comes up after the coach has been picked and they now are in the planning stages. Also, do the windows have to be installed in the same places that the bus windows came out. Answer is no, they can be put in anywhere you want. But you should have your inside plan so windows can be put where they center on your couch, table and in your bedroom. Next, what do you think about thermal pain windows; answer not much. As large windows only make your coach hot in the summer and cold in the winter and the distance between the glass is too small to be of much good. To be good they need to be filled with Argon, not just air or have a very good vacuum drawn down on them. Glass is a conductor of heat. To prove it check the temperature inside of your coach on a sunny day. The temperature on the inside will be at least 30 degrees hotter than the outside temperature. When it is cold and dark out, the temperature on the inside will never be colder than the outside temperature. So stay as small as you can and still make the coach look good. I have found that it is easier to heat my coach in the winter than it is to cool it in the hot summer. Most of the country in July And August gets up to the high 80 and low 90. In the winter most of the country stays in the high 20 and low 30. Except the very most north like along the Canadian border. Where I don't go in the winter. The people that want real big windows must want to sit inside and see the world, most want to get out and drive to whatever they are going to see. Below is a picture of the windows and the size I like. They crank out keep rain out and close tight and don't rattle.
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Old 11-30-2011, 09:35 AM   #3
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Re: Bus windows

Overall Im not too concerned with the type of window right now...

I need to know if there are any issues on the positioning.... ie mounting a vertical window mounting it to slide horizontally?

I can always step up the type and material.


Thanks.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:30 AM   #4
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Re: Bus windows

My concern would be weather proofing since the verticle windows are not designed to have water run sideways and not have a place to drain out.

On a regular install any water that got in from verticle surfaces would run down and out over the sill area

Just my .02
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:34 AM   #5
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Re: Bus windows

This is the whole reason Im asking before doing.

I looked at the window and dont think the rain flow will be an issue but one never knows.
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Old 11-30-2011, 11:43 AM   #6
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Re: Bus windows

PERSONALLY, and this is strictly based on our experiences of many years in construction (David built his first house in 1970 at the age of 16... family A-Frame vacation home mostly by himself). It is cheaper to by RV windows out of a wrecked RV than it is to rebuild the house windows. Once you find all the parts needed, you will have spent too much $$ and time. You could have bought top of the line Hehr.

Just exactly what is your problem with RV windows? I am typing this in an RV with RV windows that are over 30 yo. The alternative to RV or house windows would be to go to a sheet of glass (you can order tempered to size... just not cut it) and place a boat "window" (ports) under it. That was one of our considerations for the Eagle... until I added up everything. Then I bought RV windows out of of a wrecked Winnie for $125 for all the windows in the RV. I saw the wrecked RV sitting beside a business going thru Ramhurst. To give you an idea of the size of Ramhurst... it is just south of Chatsworth (GA) on Hwy 411.. not much more than a couple of gas stations and a traffic light. I'm good at spotting things along the highways and I was passing thru there 2 or 4 times a month between Chattanooga and NC (Hwy 76 had cellphone coverage most of the way except for a couple of miles between Ramhurst and Ellijay, unlike the route Hubby favoured). We left the windows in NC because we didn't have room to bring them out and we also decided we did not want to cut any of the framing on the skoolie. They were all too big for the skoolie except one.

We kept some of the original bus windows and blanked out the rest with metal. What I like is that they can be opened at the top and allow fresh air in even when it rains. They are tempered glass. We kept 9 and I modified one for the shower (cut down in width and replaced glass with double glue chip from Hobby Lobby). I have them grouped in sets of two (one set on each side of the bedroom that incorporates one of the emergency escape windows in each side) a group of 3 (living area) 1 single on the opposite wall next to the fireplace mantle and one single in the bathroom (not counting the one I cut down that sits IN the shower stall).

Why did we reuse the original windows?
-- Cost was the biggest factor.
-- They did not leak except where they had been pulled out and replaced without being caulked in. and even those windows didn't leak except when I put the water hose to them to get some of the dirt off.
-- Only real reason to replace them was to keep the bus from looking like a school bus. Without major modifications, that wasn't going to happen and we are converting on a skinny shoestring.

So I tore them apart (put together with screws), washed everything and started putting back together. I could not get all the frame pieces apart due to rusty screws. So I rebuilt the ones I could. I separated everything out into piles and counted. I did come up with more "whole" windows than we decided we needed (we later dropped from the bedroom from 6 windows down to 4 windows). The rest of the window frames were used to build the "blanks" and I have been using aluminum pieces from the windows to make different things. I may regret doing the triple window in the living area. But the two "doubles" in the bedrooms seems to let in plenty of light with out it being too much. I do not have a window in the galley. I have one in the Class C's galley and it doesn't do much. Too small to let much air or light in. and when it is open, the wind will occasionally blow in and knock stuff over. I also have to close it when I cook because with the stove burners on, it creates a draft and the burners will go out. Besides I always turn on a light when I am doing anything in the galley.



The thing about windows is they seem like a nice idea. But when you live in a RV park where your neighbour is often a couple of feet away from you, you start wishing you had less windows. Windows let in a lot of noise. Plus there are times when you wish you didn't have the view out of your windows. One time, we were in a site that had our kitchen window in line with the big window in the neighbours bathroom. I really didn't care for the view. They never closed the blinds. They were so close that I could have closed the blinds for them (screens got in the way). And they saved money on air freshener. Luckily it soon warmed up to the point I could close up the windows and run the AC. They left after a month or so.
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:29 PM   #7
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Re: Bus windows

I have no issues against Rv windows at all. To be honest I dont really like windows period. I am fine with it sheet metaled up and leave it be, but I know there needs to be some sunlight of a sort in there.

I am only planning on 4 windows total. I am thinking 24"x35" or 24"x24" depending on what the window opening is where the old windows came out. They are all gone and its just skinned right now. I have all the metal working tools and machines so modifying that part is no issue to me. Nothing a plasma cutter and mig welder cant handle.

I dont want to say cost is a huge factor but I am more than willing to spend a 100 per window (for a high end argon double pane) and I am also ok with a 43.00 single pane with a aluminum frame. Again this is a bus that will be used 5-6 times a year. Its a play toy not a home for me unless my wife kicks me to the curb which is always a possibility.

I am not going to go through all the troubles of insulating the crap out of this thing and then put a cheap window in it? To me that doesnt make sense. I try to take a lot of pride in creating things even if they are play toys. I feel if you do it right its easier to sell to someone else and they will see the quality.

Things that I need from windows.....

1) add natural light
2) be able to open when parked and add air circulation if the weather allows
3) keep the rain out
4) keep the heat or cold out depending on the season.

My ideal goal for installation..... measure.... weld in supports in the needed area place windows in.... screw them to support. seal around opening... trim outside...... then start putting insualtion around the inside of the bus.

I highly respect people who have done this kind of stuff and are willing to share their experience. I am more out to find out what they would do different since theirs is already done. I have to agree with you on windows... they do let in lots of things I am not real fond of.... weather, noise, etc.

Again thanks for your input. I value it a lot.

Bapos
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