Cable prices

[Redbear]

Whoa! Read what was written. There will be no fire from this portion of the unorthodox arrangement. It still might kill small children, though.

I must admit that I sometimes scan posts without full comprehension and jump to conclusions, but I don't think so this time.

Kubla and CaptainInsaneo, there will be no 240 volts on the primary feeds. The 50-amp outlet on a pedestal is not proposed to be used. Roach, the two 15-amp cords are not going into a duplex 15/20 amp receptacle on a single circuit, either.

The proposal is to create a 30 amp plug feeding a home-made "Y" at the pedestal that has two 15-amp receptacles on the same phase from the 120-volt outlet. These two "Y" receptacles feed the pair of 15-amp shorelines.

Each of the shorelines will go directly to its own 15-amp breaker to limit current draw in that cord. If one cord has less resistance unbalancing the draw, it will not be loaded past its capacity due to having its own breaker. The protected sides of the shoreline output breakers combine in phase to feed a 30-amp main breaker, which feeds the 30-amp service in the bus from the single 30-amp outlet.

Yes, if the cords are being plugged in one at a time while the breakers are on, or if one becomes unplugged by someone tripping over it, the unplugged cable does become a "suicide cord." One of the exposed prongs will be hot to ground waiting to bite whoever might carelessly contact it. And no insurance company I know of is going to cover liability.

There was, however, mention of a third 15-amp shoreline plugged into a standard receptacle. This will presumably go directly to separate appliances isolated from the bus's 30-amp system. If the output of the third cord is not isolated but combined with the other two, THEN there could be a fire.

If I were wiring a pedestal, I would put the 30-amp and 20-amp supplies on opposite hot phases of the supply wire to balance the current draw. Tying the third cord's output into the other two would be when 240 volts on the opposite hot phases would get shorted out.

So, this split-30 set-up saves shipping costs on a standard 30-amp line with included plug, but the cost of the extra circuit breakers and miscellaneous connectors will still add up to quite a bit. Liability aside, I still see it as both a false economy and excessive complexity.

[CaptainInsaneo]

No I get what you are saying Redbear. I seriously doubt he dose, which it is super dangerous to even try to help in anyways that isn't simply follow the code.

If you don't know what you are doing don't try to do something cute.

I mean quite simply you could run an ass load of individual extension cords from every thing you wanted to plug in to a box on the side of your bus and hook that into a surge protector and plug that into the pedestal. IT STILL ISNT A GOOD IDEA. But it would work and be a hell of a lot safer than what he keeps trying to do.

[nat_ster]

This thread needs to be locked.

There is nothing good left here to say.

We have all warned the OP about the dangerous short cuts, and penny pinching lunacy. However he thinks he knows better than everyone here.

This thread should remain here for educational purposes of what not to do. However locking it would prevent any further crying from the OP.

Nat

[CaptainInsaneo]

Locking it? He will just start another one, this one was started because the shore power thread came to a halt. I almost wonder if he needs to be banned, he won't learn to what he is doing wrong, he won't listen to reason and is spewing dangerously bad ideas. All his threads start out innocuous enough then spiral into how to make a 3rd world shack on wheels.

[Kubla]

The 30 amp plug in the pedestals I have seen is a 240 circuit, the pedestals also had 2 15 amp 120 plugs right under it, I did not check with my meter but I can pretty much guarantee that the hots on those two plugs would make 240

[roach711]

Originally Posted by Zephod_beeblebrox2

That all has me thinking...
If I use two 15a sockets then I can use regular 15A cable. One cable for a 15A supply and two cables plus a 30A plug to two 15A connectors Y adaptor.

Redbear, I see where I went wrong. My (new) read of this is that he would have two 15A power inlets on the bus body which would allow him to use either a single 15A cord or two 15A cords that would plug into a "Y" adapter with a 30A plug at the shore power panel. The two power inlets would feed two 15A breakers and the two breakers would feed the branch panel.

I can see how this might work as long as the two bus bars in the branch panel were powered separately from the two breakers and can also see how the unused receptacle could become energized when using one 15A cord for shore power assuming the panel wiring remains as is with the two lugs jumpered together.

What I can't see is how any of this saves money. My approach would be to eliminate the breaker box entirely (the ladies at the Lowes return counter don't bite), install a single 30A twist lock power inlet on the bus, connect to shore power with a 30A twist lock cord and buy a 30A to 15A adapter for those occasions when 30A power isn't available.

Cost for the power inlet, 50' extension cord and the adapter would be under $200 (new Marinco parts) shipped, The system would be simple and safe and there would be less equipment to store in the bargain. Buy the parts used and you'd likely save half that.

[nat_ster]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsaneo

Locking it? He will just start another one, this one was started because the shore power thread came to a halt. I almost wonder if he needs to be banned, he won't learn to what he is doing wrong, he won't listen to reason and is spewing dangerously bad ideas. All his threads start out innocuous enough then spiral into how to make a 3rd world shack on wheels.

I'm in favor of banning. Who else votes in favor of banning Zephod_beeblebrox2?

Nat

[CaptainInsaneo]

Originally Posted by roach711

Cost for the power inlet, 50' extension cord and the adapter would be under $200 (new Marinco parts) shipped, The system would be simple and safe and there would be less equipment to store in the bargain. Buy the parts used and you'd likely save half that.

And a lot less to go wrong.


This is what I am talking about. I LOVE DIY and trying new things I have made my own tools more times than I can count but I would NEVER tell anyone that my weird and sometimes convoluted way is how its done. I will help you do it. I have asked advice from those more knowledgeable than my self. You need a base of reference and enough know how to sort out opinion from fact and advice that will take you closer to or farther away from your goals.

I will fully admit I have taken on projects to try to save money and spent $800 to make something that I could have bought for $900 and spent 3 months doing it. I also will admit I love the challenge of doing it too. The first vacuum chamber I built was laughably under built I realize that in hindsight, I am sure if I knew what information I was looking for and how to find it first, or if there was a forum where people talked about diy vacuum chambers I wouldn't have imploded some stainless steel.

I also don't want to say that the way it has always been done is the it must be done. That said there are some thing that have been tried before and have failed and get left by the way side of history. When a whole bunch of people tell you "WHOA, don't do that, we have seen how that ends!", you should listen and not think,"but I can do it differently" (attacking Russia in the winter I am looking at you)

No I don't think there should be a vote and I fully expect that post to get redacted, I have no idea where or what the correct procedure for keeping something this dangerously misguided at bay.

[CaptainInsaneo]

When I was on my walk last night I kept thinking about what bothers me so much about these threads (I am posting this in both) is that there are actually 3 reasons that you are eliciting such 3 responses.

There are 2 things when converting anything into an RV that you don’t deviate from accepted practices on, propane/gas plumbing and electricity, because both are very dangerous not just to yourself or you property but to everyone around you. In the event of a catastrophic failure of either system other people namely firemen and paramedics will show up and you have put their lives at risk. People walking by or parked near by could be injured.

As a Buddhist the worst thing one can do is interrupt someone else’s Dharma (their life path) either willingly or negligently. You are willingly putting other peoples dharma at risk because you can’t get a good enough deal on doing the electrics in a safe manner.

As a member of the community I am upset because you ask for advice on how to wire your system and tell us we don’t know what we are talking about. Then continue to work on a system that is going to inconvenience someone else even if it works. The thing about electricity is unless you are making it yourself (solar or a generator) you have to get it from someone else and if you don’t have the way to take it in the form they are trying to give it to you. Then it is going to make both of your lives harder, Because you couldn’t get a good enough deal on doing it correctly.

Lastly as someone who has DIYed things since I was a kid I know one truth about DIY in general. If you are DIYing something to save money there is no room for failure, as it will eat up that little bit you were going to save. So you have to get it right with little or no experience the first time, which is difficult and time consuming. Many things don’t cost a lot because there is a conspiracy to keep it out of your price range but because there are a lot of materials and man-hours involved to create said product. Have you held a coil of 50 amp extension cord its really heavy, there is a lot of copper and rubber involved, and because you don’t RV indoors it has to survive the elements. Those plugs, they are there to keep you safe from 11,000 watts of power that is 14.75-horse power you wouldn’t grab a riding lawn mowers power output shaft but you will grab that plug. You refuse to do it correctly because you cant get a good enough deal on it.

If your life isn’t worth the cost of a $175 worth of cable can I buy you out right now for $350, thats double what you say your life is worth, so you can do all the things I don’t want to do?

[Redbear]

Originally Posted by nat_ster

I'm in favor of banning. Who else votes in favor of banning Zephod_beeblebrox2?Nat

No to banning. If you don't want to reply to the posts, don't.

There is a difference between a member not understanding something and one who flames people, or attacks them with PMs.

We all know Bansil runs a heavy suicide cord, but has a cover over the bus's backwards inlet and a warning label. Neither will protect him in a law suit, but no one is jumping on his case.

[Redbear]

Originally Posted by CaptainInsaneo

. . .When a whole bunch of people tell you "WHOA, don't do that, we have seen how that ends!", you should listen and not think,"but I can do it differently" (attacking Russia in the winter I am looking at you) . . .

Hey, don't give our fearless leaders any ideas . . .

[CaptainInsaneo]

I mean seriously there is no acceptable reason for suicide cords. Too busy to take a pvc cap drill a hole in it and cut a length of pvc longer than the prongs? Then epoxy it up? Even that is no excuse for not doing it correctly. it just isn't that hard or expensive. In bansils case I am upset with him too.

Don't go borrowing trouble.

[Docsgsxr]

When are you guys going to learn to quit giving Kanye and Kim attention???

This guy doesn't care what you say.......so obviously he just wants to stir some poo!

-Doc

[CaptainInsaneo]

Its because this page will stay on the internet for a long time and I firmly believe you should never give advice on how to do electrical or gas plumbing work that isn't to the standard. That advice is really dangerous and 3 years from now I want it still known to everyone that the idea or 2,3,4 15 amp cords instead of the correct method is a very bad idea. Doing it correctly will only cost you 20% more than doing it dangerously.

[roach711]

In this case, I think doing it properly would actually be cheaper.

For some interesting reading have a look at Z's home page:

http://www.schoolbushome.blogspot.com/

Particularly interesting was the post titled "Entertaining Asininities" on September 10th. You'll have no more questions about where this guy is coming from.

[CaptainInsaneo]

The tin foil hat factory at moron land?

[crazycal]

This thread is only getting worse. Say goodbye.