CDL or CDL-B??

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by INanMT-Bus

Oh and welcome to the forum Twigg!

Thank you

[INanMT-Bus]

Originally Posted by Gypsy Clipper

Are you just looking for a fight? Unless your rig is over 45,000 lbs air brakes or not YOU DON'T NEED A CDL IN INDIANA!

NO, sorry if I didn't state my intentions clearly enough. I completely agree that a CDL is not necessary as long as you are not engaged in any profitable ventures with said vehicle. Vehicle size is irrelevant to this question.

HOWEVER, I think it's always smart to get educated. For those who have been there, done that, got the T-shirt driving trucks or buses, etc., you're ahead of the class. Seems like the rest of us might benefit from some education and practice before getting behind the wheel of a large vehicle with different driving characteristics and risks.

Honestly I think there should be some kind of "large vehicle" certification just like there is a motorcycle endorsement in many states. It's a different type of vehicle with a much different (and potentially more dangerous) set of operating conditions. I'd feel safer if everyone driving a 40 foot vehicle in the lane next to me had a little training first. Just wishful thinking.

[cadillackid]

it varies state to state where you register and where your personal driver license is held..

in OHIO, I was told by more than one DMV rep that a CDL is required for any vehicle registered as a commercial vehicle AND is over 26000 lbs GVWR. or in the case of a bus seats more than 14 + the driver.

it only requires a DOT number (which subjects it to the standard hours of service, safety checks, etc) if it is being used for commercial purposes..

in ohio church busses and school busses(being used in active church or school transit) have their own classes and both require a CDL and DOT number regardless of weight or passenger capability.. (yeah those little school mini-vans require CDL sincde they are school busses in active school service)...

if the vehicle is titled and registered as an RV then no CDL required in Ohio regardless of weight or seating capacity..

YES!!! if the driver posesses a CDL, they are subject to all rules of said CDL even when on personal drive-time. medical certificates filed each year, drug test within 8 hours if you are in an accident and there are either
1. - injuries reported to the police (TREATED OR NOT).
2. - ANY of the vehicles in said accident requires being towed away

I have no idea how other states work or if any federal guidelines kick in when states dont spell out personal use of commercial-class vehicles...

-Christopher

[Brad_SwiftFur]

*Gets his copy of "Da Rules"*
*Puts on reading glasses*
*Gets magnifying glass*

According to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations, Section 382.303(a) "As soon as practicable following an occurrence involving a commercial motor vehicle operating on a public road in commerce, each employer shall test for alcohol for each of its surviving drivers:" (it goes on to subpart (1), etc.) Subsection (b) says the same except it applies to "controlled substances". A table appears to indicate the requirements for testing. "Human fatality: YES" (regardless if driver was cited or not). "Bodily injury with immediate medical treatment away from the scene: YES (if driver was cited), NO (if driver was not cited)" "Disabling damage to any motor vehicle requiring tow away: YES (if driver is cited), NO (if driver is not cited)". Subpart (h) "EXCEPTION. This section does not apply to:" (1) (entering/exiting a stationary vehicle), (2) (involving loading/unloading cargo) "(3) An occurrence in the course of the operation or a passenger car or multipurpose vehicle (as defined in 571.3 of this title) by an employer unless the motor vehicle is transporting passengers for hire or hazardous materials of a type and quantity that require the motor vehicle to be marked or placarded in accordance with 177.823 of this title."

There you have it. The Federal law *DOES NOT*, in any way, shape, form or fashion require CDL holders to undergo post-accident drug/alcohol testing when in a personal vehicle. I cannot attest to each individual state, however.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

Now, having said all that, most employers have mandatory post-accident drug/alcohol testing, regardless of all factors. The Federal laws do not require this, but they do it to protect themselves because when they don't, some hotshot lawyer will quickly accuse the driver of being impaired. A negative lab result will quickly deflate that argument.

Also pay close attention to the wording of what I quoted. "COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE" ... "on a public road IN COMMERCE". Most of us in this forum presumably use our vehicles for private use, exempting ourselves from this rule in the first place, regardless of vehicle size or weight rating.

That's not to say you can just hop in a 50,000 GVWR bus, or even an 80K private-use tractor-trailer and just drive away willy-nilly on a regular Class C license. That's an invitation for a "driving on wrong class license" in just about any state (been there, done that). However, it is *NOT* a CDL violation, because you are not involved in commerce (an officer may disagree, which you then have to fight in court). Most states have Class A and Class B non-CDL's which may apply to you based on where you live, and this is where things have gotten so murky. In most places these are intended for farm use, show horses, and just about any other private use of large vehicles.

Motorhomes are a special case all to themselves and get exemptions just about everywhere in the U.S. Want to play it safe? See about a Class B, Non-CDL, with Air-Brake endorsement and you should be covered as long as you are not involved with commerce.

[INanMT-Bus]

Thanks for everyone's input on this, it's definitely something we all need to understand and nothing seems clear and simple about it.

Handy link for a brief summary of state's license types:

Types of Driver's Licenses - AAA Digest of Motor Laws

[Versatile]

Originally Posted by Gypsy Clipper

THANK YOU! I knew there was someone out there that understood why commercial license is bad! I retired in 2005 and voluntarily exchanged my current CDL for a standard drivers license. No one needs the added headache. Plus the job BLOWS!

A buddy of mine sold his tree chopping business and gave them his CDL LIcense. He says they were pressuring him to mandatory testing and mandatory drug classes with no violations.This is in Mo.

[EastCoastCB]

The acceptable BAC for CDL holders is reduced as well. At least the FL drivers I know say it is. I think its either .02 or .04.

[CaptSquid]

BAC for CDL holders nationwide: 0.04

It matters NOT what type of vehicle you're operating. If you have a CDL in your wallet and you blow a 0.04, YOU'RE BUSTED!

[Gypsy Clipper]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

I'm in Indiana and did aLOT of research on this (see my build thread). I even contacted the Commercial Motor Enforcement division of the Indiana State Patrol.

First, I am not a lawyer. Second, if you are driving for purely personal reasons, you do not need a CDL (no making money from driving the rig, directly or indirectly) - no matter what you are driving (it could be a dump truck). Third, you are in a bit of a gray area legally, some cops will accept it, some won't. Fourth, because of third, I will be keeping my correspondence with the ISP in my bus no matter what.

Fifth, its still a good idea to follow those lower speed limits in such big vehicles as those laws are written to subject the vehicle (i.e. longer stopping distance, etc.). It really is safer that way, and it has the side effect of not calling undue attention to yourself.

I have no desire to be subject to the federal rules and guidelines w.r.t. CDL even though my bus is titled as a bus. I don't want to mess with how my vehicle is titled as I don't know how my insurance provider will take it. But I'm still converting it.... [emoji3] I fully disclosed what I was doing to my insurance provider when I contracted for the insurance, and so far my provider hasn't canceled me (its been about 6 months now).

BTW, my rig is 51,000lbs GVWR....

You are taking the exact attitude I would. Just staying in their good graces sometimes is enough. Having seen some of the bonehead answers from people here I am sure the powers that be are just thrilled to get your money and they will leave you alone.

[cadillackid]

i dont see a lot of binehead answers.. its a greay area that even the DMV reps in many places dont even have a clue about.. I venture to say the police officers probably dont have a lot of experience either.. and so its likely to cause a wrong response from an officer if you do get stopped.. they will assume every bus is being used commercially..

I also really dont see RV's or busses even get stopped unless they are barreling down the highway or driving recklessly.. I see Semi's get stopped by DOT all the time...
-Christopher

[CaptSquid]

Basically, Chris, what you're saying is:

DON'T DRIVE TO ATTRACT ATTENTION!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by CaptSquid

Basically, Chris, what you're saying is:

DON'T DRIVE TO ATTRACT ATTENTION!

Will Do.

[CaptSquid]

Good ones, Rusty, but not THAT kind of attention!

[cadillackid]

No rollin wheels and shiftin gears round that jersey turnpike

[Gypsy Clipper]

It is not a grey area. Do not get a CDL under any circumstances. It regulates your entire existence. What are you people not getting? You want to lose your license for a fender bender in your car? It's what happens. If your state requires it then register your bus elsewhere. You will regret getting a CDL. Stop being dumb. It's one more place the government gets in your face. Defeats the premise of choosing the lifestyle. Stop being a sheep.

[Greatestrr]

Umm... I'm confused, cdl is a commercial drivers license. Unless your driving commercially you don't need it. Even if your bus was a million pounds you don't need a cdl. Nor do you need any kind of endorsement such as air brakes. If your state requires it just register somewhere else. Theres a thread on here that lays out exactly how to do that

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by Greatestrr

Umm... I'm confused, cdl is a commercial drivers license. Unless your driving commercially you don't need it. Even if your bus was a million pounds you don't need a cdl. Nor do you need any kind of endorsement such as air brakes. If your state requires it just register somewhere else. Theres a thread on here that lays out exactly how to do that

This ^^^

But some don't seem to understand it, probably because many DMVs don't understand what they are being asked.

It isn't true about endorsements. It is permitted for states to require an endorsement for air brakes, but most seem not to. This is because they are requiring an endorsement to a regular driver's license, much in the way that they require an "M" endorsement to drive a motorcycle.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

i dont see a lot of binehead answers..
-Christopher

Me either- maybe someone just doesn't have a sense of humor or humility.

[schuerbc]

You do NOT need a CDL of any kind for driving it back. I just picked up mine from a school in Michigan as well. I asked the people that worked at the school and they said since I am not transporting anyone or no one is paying me to drive them, also since i had less than 15 passengers in the bus at a time... I was good to not worry about a CDL license.


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