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Old 06-03-2016, 04:16 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuleslight View Post
1. There are no average bus prices persay. It is a combination of what is coming to market and demand for that specific bus frame, engine, chassis and overall mechanical state of the bus at purchase. However, you may be able to purchase buses outside the rust belt, strip them and sell them to rustbelt persons. This comes with the inherent risk of people wanting to do it themselves and make money. Your profit would be slim but come from the scrap material value per bus. maybe 100-200 per at max.

2. the time a project takes depends on the persons working on the project. The level of deconstruction and construction planned and the planned use. If you do not remove the floor, side panels or roof, you can immediately begin construction. However, this is a risky venture, if the floor underneath is rusted it will create future issues. let us say however the floor is assumed pristine state. The time then varies depending on construction and intended use. This can vary as some want as little as a bed to some wanting a full on RV. The full on RV takes a far longer time with wiring, plumbing, framing and so on. so it will vary.

3. skills required would range the gambit as well depending on the project. however lets stick with the basic premise of a bus not gutted and just built on top of. For a basic camper you may only need framing and simple ability to measure, cut and hammer in nails (carpentry). However full blown RV's are a whole other matter. You would off the top of my head need to have electrician , carpentry, plumbing (basic), mechanical, and interior design. But in each of those main categories fall quite a few sub categories. but those would be essential.

4. skoolies are currently a niche market, however if the government succeeds in making tiny houses illegal that might change and quite rapidly. On top of that some buses have hard to get parts which make them even less desirable.

I would caution you to convert your bus first and understand everything that has to go into a full blown RV conversion before you decide to make this a business. After which you will understand the normal starting point of most people involved in the skoolie movement/group. In that starting point maybe you will find a good business model.
Thanks for all the answers. I see so much about these "tiny house" things - I had no idea the government is trying to make them illegal. I just went and looked it up and it seems that a lot of people seem to have taken certain things overboard, but to be fair, I did not read the entire article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skoolie_n00bie View Post
I think OP is trying to "stick it to the MAN!" I like the spirit!



Perhaps a non-profit centered on building shelters for the "not so lucky"?
You could have your crew of ex-cons work on the skoolies with the pro's in a classroom environment.

Perhaps have local trade schools sponsor the project(s), together with local mechanics, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, welders...etc...
Involving trade schools or institutions like UTI (uti.edu) might even help your "future workforce" in getting that certificate/degree!

Sponsoring would be crucial for workspace, tools, initial bills, etc...

Once the skoolie is professionally built (even if done on extremely low budget), it could be used by local municipalities for emergency housing in case of disasters, homeless shelters, mobile offices...whatever "city hall" could donate, would help your organization

Just my 2Cs
MOST DEFINITELY sticking it to the man lol. I'm 45 years old and I've spent pretty much the entirety of that as a square peg trying to fit in a round hole. I'm pretty much going to let my crazy fly lol. I've nearly lost friends over debates about our criminal justice system. To anyone who thinks that it works, I envy your ignorant bliss.

I have no record or any brushes with the law - I just don't like the improper balance of power as it is today. I could go on and on, but the short version is if someone did their time, they should be good to go. Not further demonized by losing their access to public housing, food stamps, educational grants, JOBS, etc. The idiots who create these laws to "protect" citizens from these "criminals" don't realize that MOST of these guys WILL come home and if they aren't given the skills or opportunities, they will re-offend. If you can't get a job to support your wife and kid then stealing cars or dealing drugs definitely seems like a more viable option. This will then cause the community AND the citizens of this country to feel the additional burden of additional attacks against property and loss of funding to schools etc. so that we can keep building prisons instead of doing something to solve the effing problem.

If I was a police officer, this is the cop that I would be, lol. Cops Say Legalize Drugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by jake_blue View Post
Yeah, I wish there was more opportunity to reuse these vehicles but alas that's not how our society looks at it. It's like FEMA buying thousands of mobile homes for inventory to be ready to respond to a major catastrophe except that when the time comes they find out that half of their inventory is dilapidated and critter-infested because no one was actually maintaining them. Even if we could do something useful like short term emergency housing or ad-hoc offices, it's more likely that the fleet would be neglected and then unusable when called upon... And by no fault of the fleet but the bureaucracy which failed to maintain them.

Now if it were me, I'd look to partner with large churches. Chances are they already have a small fleet of buses that get used infrequently and many even have a maintenance facility to maintain them. A religiously affiliated parolee outreach program could identify suitable candidates and help with things like oversight and support because you cannot turn parolees loose without supervision. The best idea I can think of is an easily adaptable bus interior, being able to switch out maximum seating capacity for an interior with things like portable cooking, bunk beds and such. This allows churches that send groups of church members to national catastrophic events like post-hurricane or tornado to quickly change their passenger bus into a sort of rapid response vehicle. I don't know what kind of red tape this might encounter but I'd like to think that in the face of a catastrophe common sense and humanitarian effort would trump bureaucracy.
Yeah, I definitely don't see skoolies as immediate relief. They are working on this in Florida: Shipping containers to replace homeless tents in Florida | WSAV-TV
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:35 PM   #22
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I don't think they're marketable or profitable as a finished product.

Let me write you a draft business plan. You can buy me a beer in 10 years for thanks, because that's about how long it will take if you're honest about this. You can do it.

Facts about skoolies:

* Vehicles are 15+ years old
* Do not comply with current emissions as they sit
* Wrong vehicle type, must be converted from BUS to MH
* Conversion in the eyes of most states require a RIVA certification
* RVIA certification -> requires following NFPA 1192 RV standards -> requires unannounced onsite inspection of facility for fullfilling obligations for adherence to standard.
* Don't have RVIA certification? Good luck getting FMVSS manufacturer certification, which means you're not selling vehicles commercially.
* This also means your buyers will be unable to acquire insurance for your vehicles sold easily. It will be case by case basis, which is what all of us self built folks have done.

In a nutshell, North America is not designed to accept recycling of old vehicle such as a school bus to refurbished product as a mainstream activity, and thus tend to exist on the lunatic fringe.

Thus, there is a reason many of us are called "bus nuts"

Personally, I feel that INDIVIDUALLY, things are fine - we are not trying to turn a profit against entrenched commercial forces, and are therefore not a threat.

I know someone who rebuilds old volkswagen vanagons and is very successful at it. However, he doesn't ever bill or advertise them as rebuilt, just "repaired" - even when they have basically been stripped down to the sheet metal unibody and built back up.




The plan:

If you wanted to proceed with your plan, I would advise you to instead invest in building or acquiring an independent RV dealership or repair shop, that suddenly specializes in skoolie vehicles. Many/most RV shops will turn down business when they see a skoolie, due to the wild fluctuation in build quality and just sheer unknowns.

You will advertise the crap out of your business. Make deals and partnerships with all the skoolie groups and forums, offer to pay for advertising and invest in their platforms. Market all the pintrest things, get all the instagrams, make all the facebooks. Social marketing for these "unattainable" things is where it's at.

Everyone wants a hand built bespoke adventure vehicle that is not acquirable at any cost.

Turn that into an opportunity and see where it goes! Do NOT get into remanufacturing school busses though - you could go there but you ultimately will not make enough money to keep the lights on and pay your employees.

Once your "RV Repair and Rebuild" shop has it's footing in a few years, (with skilled ex-cons (which is a risk your funding and investors may be averse to) or whatever), you should by then have an RVIA cert for your state under the belt, and some experience as a licensed used vehicle lot. These items will allow you to legitimately operate as a business, and take in work from insurance claims and whatnot.

From where you would stand at that point, it's not too traumatic of a shift to take on a few special builds with an empty shell specified from BB, Thomas, or the like and issue your own custom built "Brand new" skoolie RVs, with an intact RVIA cert.

At that point, you would be selling expensive vehicles, since you're basically building upon a new bus chassis, but with all the other business going on (rebuilding existing RVs, repair, etc) you have established in the eyes of "people who care - ie state/taxes/regulations" that you are a legitimate operation.

Since you have experience in the RV industry, you have the contacts, the skills, and expertise to execute custom RV builds that carry RVIA certification on bus platforms. From there, partner with bluebird since you're making bank on volume production, and bring back the Wanderlodge - the Original one, made from steel - the kind that Johnny Cash and Elvis owned.

10 years.

^^ Click the link, read the Dreyfus model of skill acquisition.




Quote:
Originally Posted by YMIHere View Post
Hello All!

Anybody who saw my intro knows that I have ZERO experience with this and is scratching their head thinking, "Why the hell is this chick asking if you can make money at this?" Let me explain and then I hope you can answer some questions.

I've recently been let go from my job in Corporate America and I'm pretty happy about that. My intention is to drive for Uber while I work on my pet project - starting a re-entry program for the formerly incarcerated where I teach them entrepreneurship.

One of the ways I'm hoping to support the non-profit is with business ventures. I just had the thought that if I find a couple of guys who are mechanics, electricians (you guys can tell me the skills someone needs to do this right), then maybe I could help a couple of guys get their first one going so they have something in their portfolio to do this on their own.

Here are the questions I have:

1. What is the cost of the AVERAGE school bus conversion? I've seen vids of guys getting cool stuff from the dump (kitchen cabinetry for instance) and I figure I could build relationships with builders, etc. to keep costs down. But I wanted to know how much one could reasonably expect to spend in order to do this so that I can figure out other stuff down the line, such as:

2. How long does it take? Assuming you did this as a full time job - roughly how many hours do you think the average conversion takes? I want to know how long it takes and how much it costs to find out what the potential income for my guys would be. I'm thinking 2 guys with the right skills can get the job done in an efficient amount of time, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

3. What are the most important skills? Auto-mechanic skills I figure would be imperative, but maybe not. Maybe, assuming you got a good bus, that's the least essential skill. The type of thing where you could hire a guy to fix whatever and then the rest is the conversion. But I'm not sure if having those skills ties into other jobs. I've seen threads about lights (exterior I think), batteries, etc. There does seem to be a lot of questions about electrical in general so I figure having someone who got electrician training would be beneficial. Iron work? I see that a lot of this starts with framing with steel. Carpentry? Plumbing? I mean I can clearly see all of these skills are needed, but if you guys are doing these things completely on your own in some cases, then I figure if I have 2 guys with the most important skills then they can cross train to learn the couple of other things that would help.

4. How marketable are these? Those of you who are doing this as a labor of love may not know, but because you all are swapping parts, buying parts etc. I figure you might know just how popular this is so that I could figure out how lucrative it might be. With my non-mechanical skills, I figure I'd be in charge of finding all the stuff needed to do the job, decorating, marketing, and keeping the whole process moving.

This literally occurred to me last night so it's technically a "half-baked" idea. Originally, a lot of the types of businesses I thought of for the guys would have much less overhead and be more service oriented to truly get them started, but because this endeavor would be a team effort, I started to think "Go big or go home."

As a GUESS I figured it might be sold on average for $30K (some more, some less), $10K in parts (if one is thrifty) and 2 months worth of work with 2 guys making it a little over $6K each for 2 months, but this is a GUESS based on nothing. My numbers are likely way off, but I was keeping to round figures.

Anything you can offer would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 06-03-2016, 10:33 PM   #23
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what about partial conversions .. bare bones sold t oindividuals..

seats removed, floors replaced, rust repaired... I realize here in skoolie.net most are hard core DIY from the engine to the wallpaper.. but thats not the subset of the real world who watches TV and wants a school bus..

I brought my school bus home and had it parked on my street for a week and a half or so while I did some work to it...

several neighbors were like "oh I always wanted to make one of those into a camper!!.. but I dont have the tools or space to or knowhow to replace panels, fix rust, paint, and then I have to somehow dispose of the waste... "

"but wow your bus is already painted and runs good and rust is gone and such... "..

"I do know how to build with wood and install wires, plumbing, floors, etc"...

those are the general responses I got..

im not planning on converting my bus to a camper or a house.. but I faced the same concerns my neighbors do.. no body work skills, or a place / tools to paint...

I bought mine from a bus dealer that just happens to have some abilities to do this to busses... albeit very slow and somewhat weather dependent...

what if you created a business that would take the time and effort to scour the auctions to get "good" busses at low prices.. then could offer services performed to it... paint, plywood floors, seats, maybe even roof raises and window skinning...

no the skoolie.net crowd wouldnt pay for such a bus but i'll bet the average suburbia guy who watches tiny homes, or the camping channel or reads about and sees conversions online would... because now he has an enclosed bus ready to drive and put his touches to..

putting your ex-cons back into the workforce.. teaching them valuable skills, work ethic, and getting back to a schedule.. experience for their resume' t osay "yes I helod a job for a year".. when they want to jump into the job market again...

-Christopher
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:25 PM   #24
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I was gonna suggest what cadillackid suggested. Do partial conversions that mostly just involve labor. All conversions require seats out. That might be worth a little bit. Maybe do rust repair such as sandblasting underneath, removing flooring and restoring.
Maybe do a little bit of mechanical such as putting in new batteries, replacing tires- doesn't have to be new tires but putting nicer used highway tires on, pulling wiring that doesn't have to be there, raising the roof, etc.

If you could buy buses at auction, do conversion work to them and resell at dealer cost or slightly more maybe it would be worthwhile?

I'm not a business person but that seems like the only possible way to make a little bit.
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:10 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what about partial conversions .. bare bones sold t oindividuals..

seats removed, floors replaced, rust repaired... I realize here in skoolie.net most are hard core DIY from the engine to the wallpaper.. but thats not the subset of the real world who watches TV and wants a school bus..

I brought my school bus home and had it parked on my street for a week and a half or so while I did some work to it...

several neighbors were like "oh I always wanted to make one of those into a camper!!.. but I dont have the tools or space to or knowhow to replace panels, fix rust, paint, and then I have to somehow dispose of the waste... "

"but wow your bus is already painted and runs good and rust is gone and such... "..

"I do know how to build with wood and install wires, plumbing, floors, etc"...

those are the general responses I got..

im not planning on converting my bus to a camper or a house.. but I faced the same concerns my neighbors do.. no body work skills, or a place / tools to paint...

I bought mine from a bus dealer that just happens to have some abilities to do this to busses... albeit very slow and somewhat weather dependent...

what if you created a business that would take the time and effort to scour the auctions to get "good" busses at low prices.. then could offer services performed to it... paint, plywood floors, seats, maybe even roof raises and window skinning...

no the skoolie.net crowd wouldnt pay for such a bus but i'll bet the average suburbia guy who watches tiny homes, or the camping channel or reads about and sees conversions online would... because now he has an enclosed bus ready to drive and put his touches to..

putting your ex-cons back into the workforce.. teaching them valuable skills, work ethic, and getting back to a schedule.. experience for their resume' t osay "yes I helod a job for a year".. when they want to jump into the job market again...

-Christopher
I'm trying to "break into" this type of industry.
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:01 AM   #26
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I suppose if you have a passion for deconstruction but even just doing the prep work and flipping a R-T-A bus shell I don't know that you could make enough to even pay yourself minimum wage for the amount of labor you've put into it... not to mention paint or parts for tune-up. There's also still the issues of insurance and RV titling which a shell alone won't qualify it for RV status so the end consumer still has to tackle those hurdles. And doing anything for-profit opens up a whole can of worms with liability even if these vehicles are being sold as-is. One legal dispute could easily bankrupt the fledgling company. I also appreciate Aaronsb outlining the realities that turning a potential cottage industry into a legitimate business does pose several legislative hurdles to satisfy RVIA and FMVSS qualifications.
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:17 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by jake_blue View Post
...And doing anything for-profit opens up a whole can of worms ...
One worm is that anyone driving one of these would need a CDL since it isn't just personal purposes such as recreation.
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Old 06-04-2016, 11:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake_blue View Post
I suppose if you have a passion for deconstruction but even just doing the prep work and flipping a R-T-A bus shell I don't know that you could make enough to even pay yourself minimum wage for the amount of labor you've put into it... not to mention paint or parts for tune-up. There's also still the issues of insurance and RV titling which a shell alone won't qualify it for RV status so the end consumer still has to tackle those hurdles. And doing anything for-profit opens up a whole can of worms with liability even if these vehicles are being sold as-is. One legal dispute could easily bankrupt the fledgling company. I also appreciate Aaronsb outlining the realities that turning a potential cottage industry into a legitimate business does pose several legislative hurdles to satisfy RVIA and FMVSS qualifications.
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Old 06-04-2016, 02:08 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by aaronsb View Post
The plan:

If you wanted to proceed with your plan, I would advise you to instead invest in building or acquiring an independent RV dealership or repair shop, that suddenly specializes in skoolie vehicles. Many/most RV shops will turn down business when they see a skoolie, due to the wild fluctuation in build quality and just sheer unknowns.

You will advertise the crap out of your business. Make deals and partnerships with all the skoolie groups and forums, offer to pay for advertising and invest in their platforms. Market all the pintrest things, get all the instagrams, make all the facebooks. Social marketing for these "unattainable" things is where it's at.

Everyone wants a hand built bespoke adventure vehicle that is not acquirable at any cost.

Turn that into an opportunity and see where it goes! Do NOT get into remanufacturing school busses though - you could go there but you ultimately will not make enough money to keep the lights on and pay your employees.

Once your "RV Repair and Rebuild" shop has it's footing in a few years, (with skilled ex-cons (which is a risk your funding and investors may be averse to) or whatever), you should by then have an RVIA cert for your state under the belt, and some experience as a licensed used vehicle lot. These items will allow you to legitimately operate as a business, and take in work from insurance claims and whatnot.

From where you would stand at that point, it's not too traumatic of a shift to take on a few special builds with an empty shell specified from BB, Thomas, or the like and issue your own custom built "Brand new" skoolie RVs, with an intact RVIA cert.

At that point, you would be selling expensive vehicles, since you're basically building upon a new bus chassis, but with all the other business going on (rebuilding existing RVs, repair, etc) you have established in the eyes of "people who care - ie state/taxes/regulations" that you are a legitimate operation.

Since you have experience in the RV industry, you have the contacts, the skills, and expertise to execute custom RV builds that carry RVIA certification on bus platforms. From there, partner with bluebird since you're making bank on volume production, and bring back the Wanderlodge - the Original one, made from steel - the kind that Johnny Cash and Elvis owned.

10 years.

^^ Click the link, read the Dreyfus model of skill acquisition.
I think it's Malcolm Gladwell who says it's 10,000 hours to mastery. If you're into that time of stuff you should check it out.

Nice ideas, but I'm not trying to start a whole shop. First off this will not be a business, it's intended to be a non-profit. Investors would be no problem because they're not investors, they are people who believe in the cause and donate. But the real purpose of this (or any of the businesses) is to teach skills while making a few bucks - that's for the non-profit. The larger purpose is to support the ex-offenders in starting their own businesses. I don't know if you saw the links I posed previously but there are really good programs doing such things.

Before coming here, everything I was thinking was very service oriented and not dependent on location. Example - mobile car wash, dog training that comes to you, personal training, painting murals, catering (can share kitchen) etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
what about partial conversions .. bare bones sold t oindividuals..

seats removed, floors replaced, rust repaired... I realize here in skoolie.net most are hard core DIY from the engine to the wallpaper.. but thats not the subset of the real world who watches TV and wants a school bus..

I brought my school bus home and had it parked on my street for a week and a half or so while I did some work to it...

several neighbors were like "oh I always wanted to make one of those into a camper!!.. but I dont have the tools or space to or knowhow to replace panels, fix rust, paint, and then I have to somehow dispose of the waste... "

"but wow your bus is already painted and runs good and rust is gone and such... "..

"I do know how to build with wood and install wires, plumbing, floors, etc"...

those are the general responses I got.

what if you created a business that would take the time and effort to scour the auctions to get "good" busses at low prices.. then could offer services performed to it... paint, plywood floors, seats, maybe even roof raises and window skinning...

no the skoolie.net crowd wouldnt pay for such a bus but i'll bet the average suburbia guy who watches tiny homes, or the camping channel or reads about and sees conversions online would... because now he has an enclosed bus ready to drive and put his touches to..

putting your ex-cons back into the workforce.. teaching them valuable skills, work ethic, and getting back to a schedule.. experience for their resume' t osay "yes I helod a job for a year".. when they want to jump into the job market again...

-Christopher
Quote:
Originally Posted by boojiewoojie View Post
I was gonna suggest what cadillackid suggested. Do partial conversions that mostly just involve labor. All conversions require seats out. That might be worth a little bit. Maybe do rust repair such as sandblasting underneath, removing flooring and restoring.
Maybe do a little bit of mechanical such as putting in new batteries, replacing tires- doesn't have to be new tires but putting nicer used highway tires on, pulling wiring that doesn't have to be there, raising the roof, etc.

If you could buy buses at auction, do conversion work to them and resell at dealer cost or slightly more maybe it would be worthwhile?

I'm not a business person but that seems like the only possible way to make a little bit.
I like these ideas. Definitely more do-able. I will keep this in mind with Aaron's idea. The fact that it's fewer skills would create a shorter learning curve and the ability for more efficiency.
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:24 PM   #30
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The resulting buses don't have to be RVs, right?
As time goes by and you "recruit" more people, they could start a repurpose of a bus for a mobile mechanic shop, or roofing, pet grooming, food truck....whatever they want to!
Give then a 2nd chance to a better life.

I like it.

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