Crown Bus Electric Conversion

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by Shambhala Tinbolle

Sleddgracer - No, I've never been to Shambhala BC. Adding it to my travel list. Thanks!

it's quite the party - our village and surrounding area grows from 3000 people, to over 15,000 for Shambala week

[Rawlings]

I have a 1978 crown with det 6-71 and I also own a Tesla Model 3....I wish I could afford to convert the crown to all electric...its the future and even if its far away it would future proof our twinky bus. If it could be converted for 250-400 miles of electric for under $50k I would think about it. Not that I have that money but man I would sell our house and do it hahaha. I do love the sound of our Det...but spending $300 bucks to fill it up..kind of hurts hahah if it had a 750-1000 kwh battery it would cost about 100-150 in electric to charge it.

[steveningham]

Good on you for driving electric as far as the model 3 is concerned. I'm looking forward to seeing the model Y as I need a hatch back. I mentioned earlier I lease a 2018 Kia Soul with the glass roof and I love it. We can tow these cars with a dollie behind our buses. The bus can have as much as 2000 watts of solar, so boon dockers could trickle charge the car with the bus. Drive the bus to a destination.Park it. Explore and do all the other stuff with the EV. That lowers our carbon foot print a hole bunch! Most any bis can be converted to electric and there are companies on the west coast that can do it for us. There are direct replacement electric drive rear ends coming on the market as we speak that can be made to fit our buses. There are onboard charging systems and battery management systems that would work. There are battery packs. The cost is the problem. Give it a year or two and the cost will come down. Eventually I predict it will cost less in the long run to convert rather than over haul or rebuild when long term operating costs are put into the equation. It's just a matter of time before we are able to drive EV buses.

[Iceni John]

Originally Posted by steveningham

Most any bis can be converted to electric and there are companies on the west coast that can do it for us. There are direct replacement electric drive rear ends coming on the market as we speak that can be made to fit our buses. There are onboard charging systems and battery management systems that would work. There are battery packs. The cost is the problem.

No. The problem quite simply is that any battery bus or truck is intended for, and can only be used for, short-distance fixed-route trips not far from its home base. This means city transit and school buses and local delivery trucks, and they have to be charged each night at their own dedicated charging station. This effectively precludes using a battery bus or truck for a cross-country trip, i.e. the sort of use everyone here is likely to do with their own non-commercial bus conversion. Sorry!

John

[Sehnsucht]

I am all for an easy and affordable electrification conversion solution but smarter people than I are struggling with it so I'm of the mindset that a shadetree mechanic is extremely unlikely to succeed where others with in-depth knowledge and billions of dollars in R&D are struggling. Even going so far as to design a lightweight marginally aerodynamic (for a bus) chassis from the ground up to be an electric bus, manufacturers are struggling to squeeze 200-250 miles out of a single charge before the bus has to return home for an overnigbt recharge. I've cited this as an example before that here in Indianapolis we're getting a bus rapid transit line that uses all-electric buses and the manufacturer seriously oversold the range capabilities on these $1.3 million apiece beauties. IndyGo started testing them in the winter and found they were lacking and that's before it occurred to them to add ballast to simulate the weight of passengers. Now the manufacturer is ponying up for quick charge stations at each stop to boost the range each time the bus pulls into a station.

Long range is simply out of the question for an all electric heavy truck or bus without some quantum leap forward in battery technology. Tesla seems determined to introduce a semi truck but it'll end up just doing city work or short haul yard to yard runs where it can recharge at each end. (Think FedEx or YRC) I think a long haul electrified heavy truck or bus will end up being more like the Prius with an internal comustion engine turning an electric generator as needed to top up batteries or added power for acceleration but with no direct drive to the wheels.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

I am all for an easy and affordable electrification conversion solution but smarter people than I are struggling with it so I'm of the mindset that a shadetree mechanic is extremely unlikely to succeed where others with in-depth knowledge and billions of dollars in R&D are struggling. Even going so far as to design a lightweight marginally aerodynamic (for a bus) chassis from the ground up to be an electric bus, manufacturers are struggling to squeeze 200-250 miles out of a single charge before the bus has to return home for an overnigbt recharge. I've cited this as an example before that here in Indianapolis we're getting a bus rapid transit line that uses all-electric buses and the manufacturer seriously oversold the range capabilities on these $1.3 million apiece beauties. IndyGo started testing them in the winter and found they were lacking and that's before it occurred to them to add ballast to simulate the weight of passengers. Now the manufacturer is ponying up for quick charge stations at each stop to boost the range each time the bus pulls into a station.

Long range is simply out of the question for an all electric heavy truck or bus without some quantum leap forward in battery technology. Tesla seems determined to introduce a semi truck but it'll end up just doing city work or short haul yard to yard runs where it can recharge at each end. (Think FedEx or YRC) I think a long haul electrified heavy truck or bus will end up being more like the Prius with an internal comustion engine turning an electric generator as needed to top up batteries or added power for acceleration but with no direct drive to the wheels.

we were talking about this on this thread 2 or 3 weeks ago - the example of the new bus getting 1100 miles out of a single charge was brought up with enough documentation to prove it wasn't just a pipe dream -

[CMORGANSKOOL]

Thomas and bluebird have electric skookie models.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VJRSOgKKwo

[steveningham]

[QUOTE=Iceni John;341041]No. The problem quite simply is that any battery bus or truck is intended for, and can only be used for, short-distance fixed-route trips not far from its home base. This means city transit and school buses and local delivery trucks, and they have to be charged each night at their own dedicated charging station. This effectively precludes using a battery bus or truck for a cross-country trip, i.e. the sort of use everyone here is likely to do with their own non-commercial bus conversion. Sorry!

John[/QUOT
A battery operated vehicle can be designed for short or long trips. More cells and capacity means greater driving distances between charges. There is room for a lot of batteries under a bus. Capacitor discharge storage technology is on the horizon. It means thousands of miles between charging. Being I've driven 80 thousand all electric miles, including longer distance road trips. I've been to a lot of charging stations. A dedicated home charging station is not needed. I only have a level one, 110 AC house current outlet at home. Level 2 charging stations all use the same protocol.They are nearly everywhere. You can buy a portable level 2 charger that lets you plug into any 220 or 240 Volt AC RV camp ground outlet. There are many thousands of these located throughout the US and thousands more are being built as I write this. So even with short a short range bus, one could drive from camp ground to camp ground. With solar panels, It's possible to slowly charge the bus traction batteries anywhere. Even on a cloudy day. A bus can also be designed to charge using CCS fast charge stations currently being installed nation wide. The size of the vehicle can make it difficult to get close enough to use these stations at some sites. The world is moving toward all vehicle electrification. Fossil fuel is old, expensive, outdated 20th century technology. As mass production makes batteries and traction axles less costly to produce, it's only a matter of time before everything evolves. Whether or not you chose to move forward with technology or remain in yesteryear is of course up to each of us individually to decide. Right now, it's out off most peoples reach financially to convert to electric. But that will change very soon so we should be talking about it.

[HazMatt]

"Fossil fuel is old, outdated (actually 19th century. But leave us not quibble over a mere century) tech"...
Where do you suppose those third-hand electrons you are so smugly charging your batteries comes from?
Four hints: not too awful many from hydro, solar, wind, or geo-thermal.
Just sayin'...
Just hope fission's to your likin'.

[Sehnsucht]

Originally Posted by Sleddgracer

we were talking about this on this thread 2 or 3 weeks ago - the example of the new bus getting 1100 miles out of a single charge was brought up with enough documentation to prove it wasn't just a pipe dream -

Was this that ProTerra 1100 mile prototype? I remember reading that and it sounded dubious. It wasn't explicitly stated but it seemed implied that the production model buses don't get that kind of range which makes me think they built a bus-sized battery on wheels for the publicity stunt but all the weight capacity was required for carrying batteries so no capacity for passengers which makes it kinda pointless except for a headline. A real-world application isn't going to get a quarter of the range of that stunt vehicle. I hope there is some magical 1.21gw blender-sized power plant in our future that'll solve all of our energy woes.

[joeblack5]

Not sure what the average trip length of a skoolie is but it can hardly be more then 80 miles. Seems to be the ideal distance for electric busses.


We drive our electric cars every day around town , about a penny / mile .


It seems the extreme efficient drive train would open up all kinds of experiments with running a 10 kW diesel generator to charge the battery and using the coolant and exhaust heat from the generator in the winter to solar charging during sunny days.


For cross country trips ...Just like the sail boats that Columbus used... living your life in harmony with the weather, sun or wind , or both .. no need to rape the earth to get what you want just because you want it right now.





Later J

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by Sehnsucht

Was this that ProTerra 1100 mile prototype? I remember reading that and it sounded dubious. It wasn't explicitly stated but it seemed implied that the production model buses don't get that kind of range which makes me think they built a bus-sized battery on wheels for the publicity stunt but all the weight capacity was required for carrying batteries so no capacity for passengers which makes it kinda pointless except for a headline. A real-world application isn't going to get a quarter of the range of that stunt vehicle. I hope there is some magical 1.21gw blender-sized power plant in our future that'll solve all of our energy woes.

they did say the test was done under ideal conditions on a track - 'probably did have an over load of batteries, but they did show it could be done - we'll see buses with batteries that will power a bus for a 500 or 600 mile trip before long

[steveningham]

The older a fossil fueled vehicle gets, the dirtier it gets. But the older an EV gets, the cleaner it gets, because the grid is being cleaned up. Oregon for example gets it's electricity from 98% renables and coal fired power plants are now banned in the state. My source of information comes the Union of Concerned scientists. The climate is heating up rapidly. Not trying to be smug. I'm just saying it like it is. If we don't change, our children have no future. My bus also runs on diesel. But I can hardly wait for the day when I can pull that dirty, complex, noisy, expensive to repair and maintain power plant out and replace it with a clean, silent, no maintenance, inexpensive to operate, dependable electric drive.