Detroit Diesels?

[sportyrick]

Before I bought my bus I asked the mechanics at First Student about bus engines, they were quite insistent in not getting a 3208, they said the won't go 100,000 before needing a rebuild. I knew someone who had one in a dump truck and they put bearings and head gaskets in it every 2 years. sportyrick

[bus-bro]

Ain't ever going to work, so forget about making your 4 cycle gasser a 2-stroker.

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by sportyrick

Before I bought my bus I asked the mechanics at First Student about bus engines, they were quite insistent in not getting a 3208, they said the won't go 100,000 before needing a rebuild. I knew someone who had one in a dump truck and they put bearings and head gaskets in it every 2 years. sportyrick

Then the mechanics are as dumb as toast. 250,000+ from a Cat in a semi tractor is common. (Remember Roadway's fleet of Ford cab-overs? Many of those had 3208's!)

[mouse059]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

.. camming the 429 gas engine I already have to modify the valve timing to be a two-stroke ..

DIesel has to be compressed a LOOOT more than gas ... How would you modify the gasser to not blow up on the added pressure ...

[kamoo]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle

Then the mechanics are as dumb as toast. 250,000+ from a Cat in a semi tractor is common. (Remember Roadway's fleet of Ford cab-overs? Many of those had 3208's!)

The mechanics are spot on. No class 8 semi tractor has a 3208. You can believe what youd like but Cat is average at best. They have had more than their fair share of junk engines, currently they are the smaller Perkins, before this it was the 31 series, before this the 3208 (not that bad) but was a throwaway motor. The rumor is that this engine was actually designed by Ford but they could never get the injection right and sold it to Cat. If you like to crap on the 6.0 powerstroke then you can add the Cat HEUI injection to your complaint list as they are pretty much the same. Search some marine forums on the 3208 and 31 series and you will get the real story.

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by kamoo

The mechanics are spot on. No class 8 semi tractor has a 3208. You can believe what youd like but Cat is average at best. They have had more than their fair share of junk engines, currently they are the smaller Perkins, before this it was the 31 series, before this the 3208 (not that bad) but was a throwaway motor. The rumor is that this engine was actually designed by Ford but they could never get the injection right and sold it to Cat. If you like to crap on the 6.0 powerstroke then you can add the Cat HEUI injection to your complaint list as they are pretty much the same. Search some marine forums on the 3208 and 31 series and you will get the real story.

You're FOS. I know that Ford put 3208's in C-series tractors, I know this beyond the tiniest glimmer of any doubt whatsoever. How do I know this? My uncle OWNED ONE. It was a 1980, IIRC, a C7000 single-axle tractor, I recall an ex-Roadway truck, with a turbo 3208 & a 9-speed Road ranger. I've also seen them in Ford Louisville 10-wheelers. The 3208 is a good engine...not a great one, but a good one. It adequately powers millions of trucks, buses (most pusher Saf-T-Liners has 3208's for many years, after the initial batch with the disastrously-bad 555 Cummins), and boats. Not my first choice (that's a DT466 or a Cummins), but I wouldn't hesitate to own a bus with a 3208.

There's a reason the 3126/3126E/C7/C7 ACERT is such a popular engine...I prefer the DT466 or the Cummins ISC, but the 7.2 Cat is by no means a BAD engine, HEUI and all. (The 7.3 PSD also uses HEUI.) I drove one with over 10,000 hours (~230K) and it ran perfectly...even popped off at 5 degrees without a problem...I've even seen 275HP C7's in semi tractors.

[paul iossi]

3208's are excelent medium duty and industrial engines, cat determined that it would be cheaper to replace it with inline 6 cylinder engines when the federal exhaust emission standards could not be met with a pcv valve and inexpensive injection pump mods, enter the 3116 and 3126 engines with HEUI and electronic engine controls.

we are at a point in history where mechanical injection is no longer available on new model engines, it's fast becoming obsolete just like carburators and points type ignition in gas engines. the electronic controls are getting more reliable and faster the down side is that when something fails you can't just patch it up and limp home like the good old days. the up side is more power, better performance and fuel mileage, self diagnostics, cruise control built into the computer and lots more neet stuff

[kamoo]

I know what they are in but correct me if I am wrong, these are not class 8 tractors. These are considered medium duty trucks. You are right, 250k out of a 3208 is common. It isnt a bad engine, just nothing to write home about, just like a 444E. I dont know 100% but I didnt think that the 7.3 had oil fired injectors at any point in its life. The 6.0, which has been chastised, has them. Cat had casting problems with the 3116 and tons of injections problems across the board with all of the 31 series mostly due to the HEUI as does Ford/Intl. Injector replacements will cost you an arm and a leg on the 31 series as well as the 6.0. From memory it is over $200 per injector plus a ton of labor, I'm sure similar with Cat. In my 6.0, all have been replaced under 100k which is terrible considering I change my oil every 5k with synthetic despite Ford recommending every 7500 with dino. Even Cat mechanics will tell you to steer clear of them (31 series). A 31 series in a boat will make it lose value, just do a little research.

[paul iossi]

I haven't been around any cat 31 series engines in 6 years, but it looked like they were getting the bugs worked out back then, a lot of the early problems were with the sealing the copper cups and injectors in the heads, once they got past that things were a lot better. and like i said i haven't been in engine test for a while, anyhow doesn't international use the heui system all of its electronic injection systems? I know that during its development stages that the joint international and cat HEUI system was the future of electronic injection, in theory it's a simple concept, use the engine oil pressure to hydraulicly amplify fuel pressure and then use the electronics to control injection timing and pulse width, much like they do with on the new gas engines, timing can be changed by 20% between cylinders in the firing order as well as multiple sparks to promote complete fuel burn, the pulse width is changed to control the amount of fuel injected.
the computers/controllers can be set up at several power ratings and even be set at a limited power range until certian perameters are met and then the power automatically will increase, think with cruise control to maintain cruise speed on a long hill

[the_experience03]

Originally Posted by kamoo

I dont know 100% but I didnt think that the 7.3 had oil fired injectors at any point in its life.

The direct injected 7.3 (powerstroke) most certainly had oil fired injectors. I know this because I've had to replace the plug and gasket at the back of the high pressure oil gallery on a few of them. It's a pretty darn easy job to do and I'd rather do that than replace the valve cover gaskets (expensive bastards at that) on an AC equipped rig.

The only major downfall is that you lose a lot of oil from a very important spot. Compressing air in the gallery doesn't provide adequate pressure to fire the injectors and it takes a LONG time to bleed that gallery out sufficiently to get the truck to run and idle. If you think bleeding out the fuel lines is a pain after running them dry try getting one of those Fords to run after pulling the plug. It actually takes a few DAYS for full power to be restored as the last of the air works its way out.

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by kamoo

I know what they are in but correct me if I am wrong, these are not class 8 tractors. These are considered medium duty trucks.

Wrong. These are class 8's, single-axle line haul tractors, used to pull doubles.

You are right, 250k out of a 3208 is common. It isnt a bad engine, just nothing to write home about, just like a 444E. I dont know 100% but I didnt think that the 7.3 had oil fired injectors at any point in its life. The 6.0, which has been chastised, has them. Cat had casting problems with the 3116 and tons of injections problems across the board with all of the 31 series mostly due to the HEUI as does Ford/Intl. Injector replacements will cost you an arm and a leg on the 31 series as well as the 6.0. From memory it is over $200 per injector plus a ton of labor, I'm sure similar with Cat. In my 6.0, all have been replaced under 100k which is terrible considering I change my oil every 5k with synthetic despite Ford recommending every 7500 with dino. Even Cat mechanics will tell you to steer clear of them (31 series). A 31 series in a boat will make it lose value, just do a little research.

As has been said, the 1994.5-2003 7.3 PSD has HEUI, as does the 6.0 PSD. Having spoken to Cat mechanics, NOT ONE had anything bad to say about the C7 except the later ACERTs being a little thin on power.