Engine comparisons

[Famousinternetjesus]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Seems like one only one in four I see at the auctions with 6.0's is running.

If you want something HOLY, well- Jesus is running a 6.9 with turbo and brownie box.

Yes I am. 😬 Im loving it too! I would say on a short bus a 6.9, even without a turbo would be satisfactory. Many of the weaknesses associated with the 7.3 were not issues with the 6.9. They have very thick cylinder walls etc. anyone who ends up getting a 6.9 would do well to get an 87 if they plan on rodding it at all. They had some updates for durability etc. plus, parts are super cheap and easy to get because so many people are still driving ford trucks with these engines. And auto parts store usually has them
In stock. No wouldn't get a used 7.3 unless I could get documents showing that they always used the appropriate coolant additives. The 7.3 is notorious for cylinder cavitation and there is no great way to to examine an engine for that problem beyond tearing it down and using ultrasound imaging haha. If you can, and you are shoppng newer buses get a 6bt. But I would stay away from 24valve cummins. While the 12 valve was and is a tremendously powerful and reliable engine, by comparison it's modern electronic counterpart is a finicky piece of junk. Not to say it isnt a powerhouse that many people swear by. But yeah, I actually love the 6.9. It has a really classic growl, idles smooth, and gives you a wider power curved than some other diesels. I attribute this to its v8 arrangement. If I weren't a weirdo who wanted to show the world that I could do something...unexpected...I probably would
Have shopped for a
Cummins...there is an infinite plethora of oem and aftermarket parts available.

[Famousinternetjesus]

I've never read anything particularly positive about the 6.0. In fact it seems here is an entire market that has developed for parts that are supposed to stop it from blowing up on you haha

[aaronsb]

As the famous saying goes, "There's no replacement for displacement."

Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur

The Cummins engines, both the 8.3 and 5.9 are pretty solid engines, I wouldn't expect more than about 300 HP from the 8.3 and about 200 or so from the 5.9.

Cap'nHooligan asked if one could get 600 HP from a Cummins 8.3. The short answer is "Sure, you can", but at what price? A couple days for a tractor pull setup. I've seen Dodge trucks build the 5.9 for insane HP, but they don't last long. For our purposes, you'll want to consider something considerably larger, like an ISX Cummins (Somewhere around 15-16 liter engine) but they can be factory spec'ed for up to about 600 and will last many, many miles at that rating. The Volvo I recently turned in had that engine and was showing close to 800K miles, and the engine still had a lot of life left in it.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Tango

Without a doubt the only way to truly "bulletproof" a 6.0...is to replace it with a 466 or Cummins.

[CaptainHooligan]

Originally Posted by Tango

You can get close to 1,000 hp out of a Cummins 4BT...but figure on it lasting maybe one or two "pulls".

LOL.. that's probably very true.

But the 5.9 Cummins or 6BT, whatever you wanna call it, has a lot of room for improvement. Easily 500hp, and reliable. Same with the 7.3 L Powerstroke.

I had a van with the 7.3 in it, and when I sold it, it had right at 400k on the clock, I bought it when it had 180K. Shortly after purchase, I did lots of upgrades. I was getting roughly 575 at the wheels. And ran it like that for 200k miles, with 0 engine issues.

I def want a 5.9 engine. With the beefy Allison transmission and heavy duty rear end, I plan on a few upgrades. It will make getting to 70mph very fast and easy LOL

[Goatherder]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

and dont forget the head bolt studs...
-Christopher

If you haven't yet blown the head gaskets, you don't need to pull the heads and change the head studs. That's a myth.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Goatherder

If you haven't yet blown the head gaskets, you don't need to pull the heads and change the head studs. That's a myth.

so the head gaskets blow early on in the engine's life if they are going to? I always thought the issue was there only being 10 head-bolts asnd over time you could still blow the gaskets.. or were there updates in certain years which mitigated this issue?

I ask because there are a TON of IC-busses just coming on the used market with 6.0's in them.. nice busses for really nice prices other than the VT-365(6.0).. trying to figure out if there were actually "good years" or "better years" for that engine..

before I heard the wrath of skoolie-ville in here I almost bought a VT-365 bus that ran perfectly...

I also looked at one recently that had big issues (it was little older)...

-Christopher

[Goatherder]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

so the head gaskets blow early on in the engine's life if they are going to? I always thought the issue was there only being 10 head-bolts asnd over time you could still blow the gaskets..

I also looked at one recently that had big issues (it was little older)...
-Christopher

Here's an explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcaV74zTJh0

[Goatherder]

And another informative vid regarding which Powerstroke engine is best. A bit long winded, but this guy knows his sh!t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o2LGuzl0go

[American]

Hey Goatherder,
Fantastic information. I can not believe how bad the 6.0 have been talked about on this site and others...it would be interesting to get them in a room with this guy. Thanks for sharing. The guys in the shop always have the best information. I thank you again. Auction is today. I will shout out with my choice.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by American

Hey Goatherder,
Fantastic information. I can not believe how bad the 6.0 have been talked about on this site and others...it would be interesting to get them in a room with this guy. Thanks for sharing. The guys in the shop always have the best information. I thank you again. Auction is today. I will shout out with my choice.

Why is it so hard to believe that a group of DIY'ers would recommend against taking a bite of a giant turd sammich?
Most of us aren't advanced diesel techs. Most of us are doing the work ourselves. Goatherder is obviously a badass gearhead to even deal with all that. More power to those who have the money and ability to tackle such a PITA.
The 6.0 is a nightmare to work on and keep running.
If we were a ford forum, I'm sure the "brand loyalty" factor would have us all extolling the "virtues" of the engine. When SO MANY much BETTER choices are available, of course us regular forum users are going to mention why the 6.0 is best avoided.

[American]

So...we got a bunch of 6.0's, some shaky 7.3, and a Chevy Diesel 6.6 and a 4.8 v-8 gas. Any thoughts on the last two?

[cadillackid]

and when I first started this site many people said "oh my god the AT545 is the death of the world..".. and a "DT-360" is way too under-powered and you need a DT-466...

ive driven 8000 miles on the 2 I mentioned above through the poconos, apps, smokies.. and a lot of flat ground.. no its not a speed demon.. but it hasnt blown up.. (a member here runs his over the rockies!).. the only thing to leave me stranded was the air-brake compressor.. (consequently a ton of people on this site say.. 'air brakes are the best!'...)..

im beginning to think there is a lot of fear mongering that goes around here because people read alot of googled-data...

yes I agree if you dont turn wrenches then stay away from the ill-fated drivetrains.. but beefing up a 6.0 doesnt look like it takes rocket science.. maybe I say that because ive built quite a few gasoline engines and rebuilt one diesel...

after all the 7.3's (T444E) had their own set of issues too.. (wiring harnesses anyone?).. from what I read also leaky oil seals are common on the DT-360 and some versions of the DT-466..

what about the 'E' common rails that cause huge issues if the oil pressure isnt perfect or the oil was let to go dirty...

my point? it surely seems like every engine has had its issues that are blasted all over any given forum.. yes the 6.0 had more than some.. but its also good to know that it is fixable.. there are 6.0's out there with lots of miles on them too...

get one that hasnt yet failed and runs good, beef it up and drive it.. stay away from the busses that say 'VT-365 Not running'... there are about to be a ton of 6.0 IC busses fairly cheap on the market because of the hate for the 6.0.. many are starting to age out as we speak...

-Christopher

[Goatherder]

Yeah, the 6.0L does appear to be fixable, by all accounts. That said...

=>>DO NOT buy one in a short bus that's been overheated and needs new head gaskets. You cannot get the heads off this motor with the cab on the chassis. And I have no idea how you would pull the cab off a van-based short bus, given the way the thing is built. You'd probably have to pull the entire engine out thru the front.

=>>DO NOT buy one unless you plan to do the "bulletproofing" procedures yourself. I could see EASILY spending $3-$4000 if I were to pay a shop to do this. Anybody that turns a wrench these days thinks their time is worth $80-100/hr. There is alot of hours in doing this on a van.

[cadillackid]

I would agree with the van chassis.. unless its possible to pull it from the inside of the bus but still a royal PAIN!..

any bus i have looked at was a full conventional which all things considered are pretty easy to pull engines apart in.. the only way I would buy one is if its running good at the time i bought it... like i say alot of those busses are just now coming on the used market.. some cutaways in a van chassis but also a lot of IC.. especially BE's...

some people like the IC BE because it has flat floors inside and still was made in a high top.. the BE was a bit lighter duty than a CE is however they also cost less so prices on them used are lower in general.. I see MANY BE's with the 6.0 (aka VT-365)..

-Christopher

[Tango]

No guarantees on any used engines and they all have their own quirks... but...playing the odds to your favor by going with the most proven and reliable drivetrain you can find/afford makes for a very good start.

[turf]

so what are these bullet proofing mods you speak of?

from someone that abuses the my drivetrain with the rockies?

i've just noticed that i cracked my exhaust manifold this summer, probably a few trips back prior to my oil cooler addition. she had no power after running her hot.

[American]

Thank you everyone for your help.

We had some folks come in from down south and bought the main lot of buses. I had my eye on a few but got outbided on even the less desirable ones.

So, at this point. We are in the market for a short bus if anyone has any leads.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP GETTING US TO RHE AUCTION TODAY.

[Goatherder]

Here's a tip: try to get a 99-03 Ford w/o too many miles from someplace the cars don't rust. These have the 7.3L eng and 4R100 trans. 7.3 L power stroke's are awesome. 4R100s die from heat, so if you get a good runner, immediately install the biggest transmission cooler possible. Then change to synthetic trans fluid, and install a filter in the cooler line.

Then ship the ECU to Jody at DP tuner, and have him reflash it. He will tell you what you need to know

[cadillackid]

arent the 7.3's the 'T444E' used in many international busses? I always think a good transmission cooler is a must..
-Christopher