Flat towing

[bluebird90]

There seems to be a misunderstanding about flat towing a vehicle with a bus with a long overhang. The thinking is that the car would be dragged around the turn. not true. The front wheels will always turn in the direction that the back of the bus is pulling it. For instance, lets say you are going left. The back of the bus will go right a bit first then follow the front to the left. The car will in turn go right first then left. The front wheels of the car following the direction the back of the bus is pulling it.
I have seen and worked on many large overhang buses flat towing a car with no problem.
Most people don't realize that the front suspension of a vehicle has steering geometry that allows this.
Imagine the casters of a shopping cart.

[bluebird90]

One this I forgot to mention, The front tires WILL wear a little faster than usual because they are being pulled instead of directed into the turn.

[superdave]

thank you blue, does the length of the tow bar matter at all

[bluebird90]

A longer tow bar would help with the car tracking better.

[crazycal]

I don't agree. Some of the overhangs on the bus are huge. To say the wear will be a little faster is an understatement. I have never towed a car with all 4 on the ground behind a bus but I tow trailers all the time and I see what it does to them. If you drive forward all the time, never need to maneuver in tight spaces or back up, then I agree with you.

[superdave]

I plan on getting a trailer but would like to flat tow when needed. The toad braking system is as much as a trailer. Extending the tow bar is easy enough. The trailer dealer will put the axels any where I want, has brakes and break away for 1600 bucks. I got my son a truck and need to tow it back from Il. hope to get the trailer this Summer, Lucky for me I got the 8.3

[bluebird90]

Actually, when flat towing you never back up. The front wheels will just flop to one direction. ( that steering geometry thing)

[gbstewart]

you see lots of big motor homes towing 4 down, and a lot have just as long or longer of a over hang as a bus, they don't seem to have many problems, other then the tire wear is a bit higher. We will be flat towing my chev sonic .
gbstewart

[crazycal]

I guess flat towing is fine if you are set up right but I would just as soon use a trailer. Let that get beat up instead.

[gbstewart]

Originally Posted by crazycal

I guess flat towing is fine if you are set up right but I would just as soon use a trailer. Let that get beat up instead.

I agree totally with using a trailer, let it take the beating but I don't think my t444e with at545 would like the extra weight,
gbstewart

[cowlitzcoach]

When flat towing there are a lot of things that come into play including the geometry of the rear bumper swing. On some of the Type 'D' FE buses the rear bumper swing can cover a lot of ground before it follows along around the corner.

The other real concern when it comes to towing four down is it has become a rigidly enforced law in a lot of jurisdictions in the west and Canada that requires supplemental braking in anything that weighs over 2,000 lbs. regardless of the size of the tow vehicle. Using a dolly or a trailer eliminates the problem of getting an auxiliary braking system for your toad and excess wear on your toad's tires.

In regards to weight, a car trailer designed and built to carry a small toad will not weight that much more than a slightly larger toad. Now if you are talking about a 40' double decker garage trailer with four axles that is a totally different conversation.

Personally, I would much rather have my car on a trailer that is wide enough to be seen in the bus mirrors so I can see what is going on behind me. There have been more than a couple of instances where people have continued on down the road long after a tire has gone flat on a toad. In one particular instance the people went so far that they were dragging the toad along on the rim causing fires to start over many miles. IIRC the owner of the moho who did it was charged with negligence. In addition, he and his insurance company had to cough up $$$$$$$$$$$ to pay for putting the fire out.

[keiffith]

I never understood toads. you invest 2x as much just in equipment to tow the vehicle than a tow dolly, then when it comes time to sell the toad, you have DECREASED the value of the car by having all those bits put on.

tow dolly if you cant afford a trailer. yeah, its a bit of a pain, BUT it doesnt decrease the value of the vehicle being towed, and you put way less wear on it by just pulling it by the rear tires and putting all the braking force onto the dolly. if you want to upgrade to a trailer, you can sell the dolly, and get the trailer. you dont get much of your investment back with flat towing, if any at all.

[EastCoastCB]

I know our car dolly comes in really handy at times.

[gbstewart]

having talked to motorhome owners that had dollies loved them, or hated them. the biggest problem was loading and un loading, you have to strap the front tires down which is a pain and when the weather is crappy its no fun, down the road you have to check and tighten the straps again, also when your at a camp site you have to find some where to store the dolly. when you tow 4 down its a madder of 5 mins and your on the road, most people will never go back to a dolly after you tow 4 down. also when your in a spot where you need to back up much faster to unhitch a 4 down and move your bus. I would rather have a trailer that way you can back up with out unhitching, and no wear and tear on your car, but it all works well dolly, trailer 4 down it all has its pros and cons, ill have my little sonic set up for 4 down.
gbstewart

[2kool4skool]

I back my Kar kaddy often, as long a it's in a straight line. I lock out the steerable wheels on the dolly. Learned from driving CDL and watching pros X chain their full trailer steers to back long distances.

Whatever works for you. Vanilla AND chocolate, nice to have a choice.

[gbstewart]

Originally Posted by 2kool4skool

I back my Kar kaddy often, as long a it's in a straight line. I lock out the steerable wheels on the dolly. Learned from driving CDL and watching pros X chain their full trailer steers to back long distances.

Whatever works for you. Vanilla AND chocolate, nice to have a choice.

how does your bus handle towing? what do you have for a tranny?, right now i'm concerned how my t444e with AT545 will handle towing a car, maybe I'm just over thinking it
gbstewart

[daddyoften]

We chose not to dolly and to flat tow for the following reasons;

Our vehicle can't be flat towed or dollied without unhooking the drive line. We are going to install a drive line disconnect mechanism.

I want to be able to stop the bus, get the family out and hop into our toad with minimal steps necessary. So unstrapping and unloading from a dolly isn't something I want to do.

Unhooking the tow bar, pinning it up, undoing an electrical chord and an air line is all I will have to do to drive my toad. The air brake controller I'm putting into my toad will be out of the way and won't need to be disconnected to drive it.
When we get back from our little venture in our toad then I can just pull up to the bus, rebook up the tow bar, electric and air and off we go!
That's our plan
Eric

[Tango]

Get a scooter.

[keiffith]

Originally Posted by Tango

Get a scooter.

My kind of scooter

[2kool4skool]

Originally Posted by gbstewart

how does your bus handle towing? what do you have for a tranny?, right now i'm concerned how my t444e with AT545 will handle towing a car, maybe I'm just over thinking it
gbstewart

Our 545 doesn't seem to mind a bit. We've towed about 5000 miles so far and the ATF still looks Ok, not brown or burnt. Lots of hills were we go. From PHX to Flagstaff for example is 10,000ft of climbing netting 6000 ft of el. gain. We are 20,000# plus tow.