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Old 04-29-2005, 01:16 AM   #1
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Florida
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Flatnose Comparisons

Hello folks, new here...I have not yet purchased a bus, but plan on it with in the following months. I have decided on a Flatnose, Front engine. I need a front engine because I want the cargo door in the rear, along with the sleek flatnose look. The case here is this...the bus will be doing some towing occasionally, so want to stay away from underpowered versions. Although a good engine, I read somewhere that the 5.9 Cummins seems to be underpowered. I have my eye on an older Blue Bird American with Front engine, 3208 CAT engine and Allison Auto. It would be neat to find a flatnose with manual transmission...What would be a good, solid combo for the Front engine flatnose combo?

Any input is greatly appreciated, and I thank you all in advance!
Theres a lucky Flatnose out there for me somewhere...
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Old 04-29-2005, 01:26 PM   #2
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Sometimes you will find on some BB All Americans with Cummins 8.3s in them. They are usually in the west (Utah) and have the bigger engine because of all the highway driving. The last few I saw on there had a 5 speed manual tranny with a 250HP 8.3. I would not get the 5.9 in a skoolie and modify it to higher HP they die. Try to find a bus with an 8.3 and you can up the HP easily and reliably. You might check with Greg he might have something you are looking for or know where to find it.
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Old 04-29-2005, 02:19 PM   #3
Join Date: Apr 2005
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There are some Crown's on Ebay, they are the Cadillac of school buses, mose are mid-engined with big Cummins or Detroit deisels and are good highway runners Go to Ebay motors\Buses motorcoaches

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Old 04-29-2005, 03:23 PM   #4
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I agree that i would rather have the cat than the 5.9 cummins. Cummins makes some excelent motors for skoolie applications, but the 5.9 isn't one of them.

the cummins that you find in crowns are excellent motors. They usually have the cummins 220. It's an inline 6 cylinder 220 hp 746 cubic inch engine. A turbo was a factory option giving 262 hp.

I have never owned a crown, but have read excellent thigns about them.

here is a link to lots of info about crowns.
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Old 04-29-2005, 07:56 PM   #5
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Location: Tampa FL
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Nobody has mentioned the DT360 which are dime a dozen. The DT466 is the preference over the two but they are harder to find and i here once the 466 went electronic they became very unreliable.

Our bus is 1991 37' Ward International Senator flatnose its got a DT360 190hp/Allison MT643 auto tranny. I finally got to tow ourt trailer with it last week, it took just under a mile to reach 60mph on the interstate, it will cruise 70mph at 2750 rpm. Other than accelleration you couldnt tell you had 10,000lbs in tow.
Nicholas Frey
Transportation Chairman
Society of Automotive Engineers
University of South Florida

The first requisite of a good citizen in this republic of ours is that he shall be able and willing to pull his own weight.
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Old 05-18-2005, 08:39 PM   #6
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 31
flat-nose buses

I'm really busy working on my bus today, but could help taking a look at the site. The Cummins 5.9 seems to get knocked around a lot. I went to a large, Utah school district bus barn and was talking to the supervisor. He said they had a TC2000, flat-nose with 260,000 miles and it was still running. I didn't think any district would keep a bus that long. He said it was starting to drip a bit of oil, but that was all. It also had a 545 tranny and it was still going.

I have a TC2000 with the 5.9 with 103,000 miles. I can travel at 62 mph on the flats. My son has a Ward with a 9 liter International and I am slightly faster than him. I'm turbo charged--he is not. If my bus last as long as the one mentioned above, someone else will own it. I won't live that long, most likely. The 5.9 might not be the perfect engine, but there are thousands and thousands of them out there. They must work or the districts wounldn't be buying them.

Got to go finish bolting down the seats.

Herb in Utah
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Old 06-08-2005, 09:42 AM   #7
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Year: 1993
Coachwork: Ward Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/MT643
Rated Cap: 77
The 5.9 B-series is one of the best diesel engines ever built--the only other engine I'd put in the same category is Internatiuonal's legendary DT466. The Allison AT545, however...YUCK. I'd suggest going with a Cummins C (8.3), 3208, or a 466 just to get an MT-series tranny. If you can find a 5.9 backed by a manual, an MT643, or an AT500, I'd grab that.

500,000 miles from a Cummins in a hotshotter's truck (often toting more weight than many school buses) isn't anything close to unusual.
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