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10-14-2016, 01:40 PM
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#1
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KANSAS CITY
Posts: 751
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Fluid heating in floor using pex and the former heating system.
As with most buses mine has that water valve that is by drivers foot that sent water to the back heater. My 98 Ford B700 Thomas body has a very large pump up on the firewall to circulate the water.
Has anyone explored the idea of using the engine heat to heat the floor while the engine is running? Add a valve to switch from the engine to another heat source.
__________________
Former owner of a 1969 F600 Skoolie.
1998 Ford B700 Thomas body 65 passenger. 5.9 Cummins 12 valve with MT643 Transmission 123,000 miles.
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10-14-2016, 02:10 PM
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#2
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
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Yes that is a very versatile solution.
If you have an alternate heat source for your flooring that has its own pump when the bus is not running. If piped correctly your alternate source could be used to warm up the radiator,engine block prior to start up in the winter to help in cold places
Long story short? Yes it is very doable if your alternate heat source for the flooring is running the same ethylene glycol/antifreeze? Most commercial solar water systems use glycol to and from the panel's to heat various things?
Good luck
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10-14-2016, 04:05 PM
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#3
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Utah
Posts: 266
Year: 1990
Coachwork: BB
Chassis: TC2000
Engine: Cummins
Rated Cap: 25.999K
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Radiant heat
I love the idea. I've seen it lots in homes. Most systems use it it pipes in cement because the cement transfers and holds the heat well. You wouldn't use cement, for weight. Maybe a passive solar box to heat? My neighbor has one to preheat his water in his house. It's just a back box with a clear lid, conduit running through it. I really like the idea of having an option to circulate through your radiator and block to keep it warm. Diesels can take a long time to get up to temp.
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10-14-2016, 05:10 PM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Darrington, Wa.
Posts: 304
Year: 1994
Coachwork: Genesis/Am-Tran Tall Roof
Chassis: International, 643 transmission
Engine: DT 466ci 250hp, International
Rated Cap: 86 screaming Monsters
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My parents Monaco has a diesel hot water circulation system to heat the floors and side compartments. It has real tile floors and real granite counters. Amazing how close they ran it up to the max weight. Id hate for some to get up a vacation day in the Schoolie and have there little toes go into shock from a chilled floor. Maybe some glow plugs in your socks would do a nice preheat.
Actually it works amazing and i diont believe they use any fans to move the air around so the pump is taking about the same load as the forced air would.
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10-14-2016, 05:14 PM
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#5
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,437
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
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I have in floor hot water radiant heat. Heat source is engine while running and Espar boiler when not running. There are pictures and some explanations throughout my build and there are some pictures on my web site. Also supplies domestic hot water.
From build site starting about here
http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/so...sa-6318-4.html
Some pictures from my web site here. I see I haven't updated lately.
Heat
Diagram here.
Heat 2
Dick
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11-12-2016, 09:09 AM
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#6
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KANSAS CITY
Posts: 751
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I read on a thread about using 3/4' plywood and the a router to use the pex.
What plywood should i use? I am buying at Lowes. What router it should i buy and then what should i put over the 3/4"?
Thanks
__________________
Former owner of a 1969 F600 Skoolie.
1998 Ford B700 Thomas body 65 passenger. 5.9 Cummins 12 valve with MT643 Transmission 123,000 miles.
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11-12-2016, 01:48 PM
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#7
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile
I read on a thread about using 3/4' plywood and the a router to use the pex.
What plywood should i use? I am buying at Lowes. What router it should i buy and then what should i put over the 3/4"?
Thanks
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Way simpler way:
Put down your "sub-sub" floor.
Layout your pex tubing to what ever pattern you come up with.
What ever outer diameter pex you use, get the same size in more plywood.
Cut pieces of ply to fill in between all of the pex tubing.
Be sure to use the reflective aluminum in the pex channels you have just created.
No router and bits to buy.
No giant mess and waste of plywood.
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11-12-2016, 02:39 PM
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#8
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 737
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Detroit MBE906
Rated Cap: 72
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Or.... instead of plywood between the runs of tubing cut your foam board insulation to fit, taking into account the degree of foam compression from the weight of the top layers of flooring and whatever you plan to put on top of it. Laying the reflective aluminum still applies.
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11-12-2016, 04:20 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 2,446
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
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Now if we could use that technology in highway bridges... No more ice on bridges!
Wish I knew how to build ****
__________________
I once complained I had no shoes....
Until I met a man with no feet
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11-12-2016, 07:31 PM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Andrews,Indiana
Posts: 2,437
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: AARE
Engine: 3116 Cat 250hp
Rated Cap: Just the two of us.
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It's much easier to use a router to cut the grooves in the Styrofoam, then lay your plywood on that.
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11-13-2016, 07:58 AM
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#11
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: KANSAS CITY
Posts: 751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyCat67
Or.... instead of plywood between the runs of tubing cut your foam board insulation to fit, taking into account the degree of foam compression from the weight of the top layers of flooring and whatever you plan to put on top of it. Laying the still applies.
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reflective aluminum
Sounds good. where do i get the
__________________
Former owner of a 1969 F600 Skoolie.
1998 Ford B700 Thomas body 65 passenger. 5.9 Cummins 12 valve with MT643 Transmission 123,000 miles.
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11-13-2016, 10:08 AM
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#12
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile
reflective aluminum
Sounds good. where do i get the
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Home Depot, Lowe's etc.
HVAC supply stores, etc.
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11-14-2016, 02:55 PM
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#13
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 543
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Has anyone ever wrapped copper tubing around the woodstove pipe? Then run water through it to apply heating throughout the bus? Just a thought
Gordon
Sent from my SM-G530W using Tapatalk
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11-14-2016, 03:04 PM
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#14
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 737
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Detroit MBE906
Rated Cap: 72
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With the requirement to run double pipe as an exhaust path to the outside I'm not sure you'd get the water hot enough to do much good.
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11-14-2016, 03:10 PM
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#15
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyCat67
With the requirement to run double pipe as an exhaust path to the outside I'm not sure you'd get the water hot enough to do much good.
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My 4 dog stove runs single wall for the first 16" because of the damper.
Sent from my SM-G530W using Tapatalk
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11-14-2016, 03:15 PM
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#16
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Music City USA
Posts: 737
Year: 2005
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner
Engine: Detroit MBE906
Rated Cap: 72
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With a setup like that then if you could wind enough copper around the pipe to get a decent amount of heat transfer then it might work... but the down side would be if you cool the exhaust too much you'll get creosote buildup inside the chimney pipe and that's a recipe for disaster (chimney fire).
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11-14-2016, 03:22 PM
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#17
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 543
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlleyCat67
With a setup like that then if you could wind enough copper around the pipe to get a decent amount of heat transfer then it might work... but the down side would be if you cool the exhaust too much you'll get creosote buildup inside the chimney pipe and that's a recipe for disaster (chimney fire).
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Good point 😊
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11-14-2016, 03:45 PM
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#18
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Kansas
Posts: 492
Year: 2000
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: Your mom +1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tootalltechie
Has anyone ever wrapped copper tubing around the woodstove pipe? Then run water through it to apply heating throughout the bus? Just a thought
Gordon
Sent from my SM-G530W using Tapatalk
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Yes. I have done this. If you attempt this make damn sure you have atleast two high quality pressure relief valves on your tank. If you don't your tank will explode because of the energy of turning water to steam ... Don't worry about cooling your stack temp too much...
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11-14-2016, 04:25 PM
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#19
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pensacola and Crystal River, FL
Posts: 647
Year: 1998
Coachwork: AmTran International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar 7.6L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tootalltechie
Has anyone ever wrapped copper tubing around the woodstove pipe? Then run water through it to apply heating throughout the bus? Just a thought
Gordon
Sent from my SM-G530W using Tapatalk
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Seems like you would need mixing valves and such to control the water temp running under the floor.
Might be doing the funky chicken dance if you got the stove cranking.
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11-15-2016, 06:24 PM
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#20
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: North carolina
Posts: 651
Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
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Couple of things to add.
1-Relief valve sized properly on the heat supply at its hottest point a piped to a safe area/zone for discharge where scalding boiling water can't hurt anyone.
2- the copper shouldn't be in direct contact with other metals cause over time they will corrode but It will last some time but as the stove heats up it expands while the water circulating is still cool so the stove rubs on the copper until the water in it reaches the temperature for the copper to start expanding. So more rubbing and the same goes with the cool down of each one? Not saying you need 1" of seperation but each one needs its own wiggle room.
3- I think it is very doable but I think ethylene glycol like in solar heating systems would serve the idea better with higher boiling points and lower freezing points.
If your pump messes up with water while the heater is cooking then whatever water in the line starts boiling and pushing itself through the piping and eventually turns to steam pushing itself through your piping?
Sorry I do commercial Heating water for a living and awhile back I had an old steam heat exchanger(copper tubing ran through a steel tube where the steam surrounds the copper water circulating through it) go bad and the steam got into the copper in the building and melted almost every soft/lead free solder joint there.
If you do go the copper route and have to have a joint/connection downstream of the heater then I can only reccomend silver brazing instead of any mechanical means (flare,compression) or soft solder?
Keep your ideas going and I have several of my own but don't want to go on anymore including wrapping the top of the heater with piping and a plate over the top to deflect it back to the piping but enough to cook on? That was a barrel heater pipe dream I had?
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