Fortifiying Your Bus Against Intruders Or Attack?

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by Accordion

... I think that if you claim that your bus/motorhome is indeed where you live, You are allowed to have home protection.

Depends on the state. Not all states recognize an RV as a "real" home.

Originally Posted by Accordion

... Another device that is effective is a can of hornet spray which throws a 20 foot stream.

Again... not legal in all states. You need to check as you can be arrested (yes I know it's stupid) for attacking a thief.

Originally Posted by Accordion

... I guess there is a fine line between Paranoia and Preparedness.

I believe you can be prepared BECAUSE you are paranoid.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by thjakits

Das Mel [....what's that???]

That's like saying "go that way" to a blind person. What's what?

[JakeC]

The debate in this thread is a little humorous to me. So many varying, strong opinions. I'm overly laid back and simple. When it comes to defense, I just stick to the basics.

Make it hard for them to enter.
I have bifold doors that fold in. A steel bar across them makes it impossible to enter. The glass on my bus at least is almost impossible to break. I tried smashing one of my windows I pulled out, and while it is possible, it takes several HARD hits. The noise would alert me and give me time to prepare. I also plan on installing an alarm.

Make it so they wish they hadn't entered if they do.
Self explanatory.

Don't look for trouble.
I don't really envision roving gangs of thugs in campsites. I do realize we may run into trouble on the road, but pick your route and stay in well populated areas. When wally docking, park under a light.

If some group attack with machine guns, grenade launchers, and flame throwers, you probably pissed off the wrong people and your time is up.
YMMV

[Das Mel]

I had a chat with the guys that replaced our door window (GUESS WHAT HAPPENED MONDAY MORNING. GO AHEAD. GUESS. I'LL TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED. POWER WAS YANKED AGAIN AND A DOOR WAS SHATTERED) and asked about bulletproofing bus windows. Not only would the glass greatly outweigh the steel, but it would be uber-expensive.

His suggestion was polycarbonate sheets made to size. Much cheaper and easier to replace even if you do manage to break it, heck, I can even order it from him. So I'll probably be doing that.

And external video cameras. That sense movement and records to a SD card. Because I am getting really tired of a certain dunderhead going after my store and I don't want him going after me. I haven't slept well since then. I'm too angry/scared for my cameras (I bought one, it's lovely). My Store is my second home, dagnabbit, and I want that sucker taken down.

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by Das Mel

... Because I am getting really tired of a certain dunderhead going after my store and I don't want him going after me. I haven't slept well since then...

We told you to move to Roswell!

Don't tell anyone where you are currently parked. Hopefully by the time he does figure out where you are, you will have a skoolie and it will be parked back in the campground... the one that he is not allowed in.
-----------------------------------------

As for ANYONE who is considering carrying a gun in their bus...

DO NOT TELL ANYONE, IN PERSON OR ONLINE, THAT YOU HAVE A GUN.

It's very simple. It's none of their business. Don't tell anyone that you have large sums of money hidden away inside your bus. Put locks on everything. You make it difficult to get inside and if some one does breach your secure perimeter, you have alarms. Seriously, those cheapie wireless door/window alarmsdo work (if you keep the batteries replaced once a year... think of them like a smoke detector). They have a fairly loud alarm and they are cheap enough you can alarm everything and then some on your bus for $60 (order by the case and pick up at the store). Cheapest security system that I know of. With that many "extras" you can double alarm your opening windows (alarm set up closed and alarm with the windows open to their "parking lot sleeping position" or partly open). Das Mel knows more about them than I do as she used to work for DollarTree.... ask her if they work. We do have a house type security system but we may end up just picking up the cheapie alarms. It might actually be easier for us to install as there are no codes and zones to program in. To alarm the living area only that would only need 12 alarms... then the bays could be alarmed. The big black storage tote I keep on the back of the hitchhaul could have a couple of alarms on it (on the lid and on the box/hitchhaul so we would know if someone pulled the box off the hitchhaul). The rolling greenhouse could be alarmed (why). The fuel tank door could be alarmed. The list goes on and on...

We have been in campgrounds since 1979. We have never been robbed while in a campground except for the little brat that tried to steal our antique cat and losing a few cans of soda off the food cart overnight.

We have only had one "dangerous" experience while overnighting in a parking lot that a call to 911 would have solved (lesson learned... do not call the store if there is a problem... write down location on a pad of paper before going to bed and if there is trouble call 911 on the cellphone and just tell them our location). I have "lost" a cheapie worn out Wal-mart gas grill off the back of the RV... while stopped to buy groceries at WAL-MART! I still am unsure as to whether I should be pissed that someone stole my year old $20 gas grill or feel sorry for the idiots.

Unless the pickings are extremely slim, I doubt that someone will choose a skoolie over a more expensive RV. UNLESS you have given someone a reason to break in (bumper sticker proclaiming you got a gun, flashing large wads of cash, expensive jewelry, fancy toys). General perception amongst the general public is the folks in skoolies are "too poor" to afford a "real" RV. This can work for us. Go rob the folks in the expensive Class A next to us... the one you can look into and see all their expensive toys because it's dark outside and they left all the lights on inside.

As for the apocalyptic decline of the general population. You won't survive that in a moving vehicle. You would need a home base because petro-fuel won't last long. So get real. Read up on legitimate security websites as to the tips they give (in addition to buying their security system) to encourage potential thieves to move on elsewhere. You will see the best tips repeated over and over. You can't really stop a determined thief but you can encourage them to choose another target.

Think about this... A bullet-proof window won't stop the bullet going thru the siding of the bus either.

[JakeC]

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

As for ANYONE who is considering carrying a gun in their bus...

DO NOT TELL ANYONE, IN PERSON OR ONLINE, THAT YOU HAVE A GUN.

Good advice

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

We told you to move to Roswell!

Don't tell anyone where you are currently parked. Hopefully by the time he does figure out where you are, you will have a skoolie and it will be parked back in the campground... the one that he is not allowed in.

Roswell isn't any better considering that I'm not 100% positive it's that gottverdammt lunatic coming after the store. I said it was only speculation until I can get it on camera.

Because what if it's not and it's just another loony Dahl and I pissed off?

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

Seriously, those cheapie wireless door/window alarmsdo work (if you keep the batteries replaced once a year... think of them like a smoke detector). They have a fairly loud alarm and they are cheap enough you can alarm everything and then some on your bus for $60 (order by the case and pick up at the store). Cheapest security system that I know of. With that many "extras" you can double alarm your opening windows (alarm set up closed and alarm with the windows open to their "parking lot sleeping position" or partly open). Das Mel knows more about them than I do as she used to work for DollarTree.... ask her if they work.

LOUD. Make your EARS BLEED kinda loud. Oh Lawd.

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

We have been in campgrounds since 1979. We have never been robbed while in a campground except for the little brat that tried to steal our antique cat and losing a few cans of soda off the food cart overnight.

We also had someone try to siphon gas out of my Jeep when we lived towards the front of the 'ground in So-Town (Socorro). No one bothers the campers in the back end.

Had a chat with our Neighbours today, apparently I cursed that spot when I left. No one else parks there for more than a week and they keep trying to back-in 5ers. Facing Neighbour's sewage hose. People's tripped over it more than once and one moron tried to get them to move the hose. Suffice to say that didn't pan out. So my spot is mine when I go back this Autumn. They miss me.

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

Think about this... A bullet-proof window won't stop the bullet going thru the siding of the bus either.

Don't remind me. I'm still working on that part.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by thjakits

but what is "Das Mel" ??

thjakits

My screen name. Shocker, right?

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by thjakits

...
Not often that someone picks a german article as part of the screen name.....

thjakits

Helps if you are of German decent. The original last name was Schinschke. Somehow over the years a few letters were lost.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by thjakits

NO!!!! Really?

...well, I wondered HOW you picked that screen name and what it means (to you).

Not often that someone picks a german article as part of the screen name.....

thjakits

Oh, a smartarse, huh? Okay, you've just redeemed yourself in my book, Thomas.

I never actually picked the name 'Mel', a kid I used to role-play with picked it for me. I pulled Das from the German language because, well, I'm German, and I don't exactly identify as male or female (I work retail, as far as I'm concerned, humans suck), so I needed a neutral title.

Mel, as well, is very very very high grade honey, and it's a bastardized version of what the locals call me (Miel).

My housemates call me Melbourne. Sis calls me Melonius. Mum here calls me by the name on my Birth Cert. Dad still calls me Clyde sometimes.

I've been Das Mel for over a decade. Typically when you type it into a search engine you either get German webpages or me.

And there ya go.

Now what were we talking about again? The train derailed and the Clarksville Station is shut down.

[bansil]

Originally Posted by Das Mel

Now what were we talking about again? The train derailed and the Clarksville Station is shut down.

Ooo...oooo.....I know!!
.
.
.
.
.
.chopping off Zombie heads

[bansil]

Or ladies hitting people with bats

[bansil]

or food?

[Das Mel]

ALL OF THE ABOVE!

[lornaschinske]

You people are WARPED!

I'm the only sane one here.

Wait a sec.... 'Tace are you reading forums AT WORK????!!!!!

[bansil]

You are either:
Busted
Sick
Or unemployed at this moment....mama may tan that hide

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

You people are WARPED!

I'm the only sane one here.

Wait a sec.... 'Tace are you reading forums AT WORK????!!!!!

Warped is relative.

Sanity is relative.

Work is... uh.... in a few hours?

Originally Posted by bansil

You are either:
Busted
Sick
Or unemployed at this moment....mama may tan that hide

Shush, you.

Originally Posted by thjakits

I am from Austria and live in Panama - so Deutsch and Español is not a problem - but I never would have thought to find it mixed in a screen name

In that case, Guten tag, amigo. Uh, I have another post somewhere around here where I said NO in several languages, including Norwegian and Chinese. I, uh, have an interest in languages.

[lornaschinske]

This was in the May 11-17, 2013 edition of the RV Travel Letter...

Frank Moore thought he heard a prowler outside his RV at the Phoenix RV Park in Salem, Oregon. Arming himself with a .22-caliber rifle, he stepped out, tripped, and shot himself in the jaw. Hospitalized, his condition is unclear. Police found no sign of a prowler.

[Das Mel]

This is why you keep the safety on until you need it off.

I will stick with my dog, SecSys, and paintball gun.

[thrash]

I wouldn't bother doing anything to the glass w.r.t. slowing down bullets.

I would expect there are three main scenarios you want to mitgate against.

1) a car jacking while you are en route

2) a break-and-enter theft when the bus is parked and you are away

3) a break-and-enter attempt when the bus is parked and you are "home" (sleeping or awake)

I'll consider each of these cases individually.

1) make sure that people cannot physically enter the bus. Make sure the doors you have are locked or otherwise not openable from the outside. You may want to put expanded metal across the windows that can be reached from ground height, especially windows in the bus doors. That will delay entry even if they break the glass, but it won't considerably limit your view out of those windows.

If you have an armed carjacker approach you at ground level from the driver's side, you can "duck" to get out of view. Consider placing a peice of suitable steel plate under the driver's window. This will stop most shotgun and handgun rounds, and will not be obvious from the outside of the bus. If the carjacker shoots at your armor, you have some nice odds. If they try to put their gun up into your window, they are shooting blindly, but will probably hit you. Note that handgun wounds are often survivable, so stay in the fight even if you get hit. You have others in the bus to protect, and prompt attention may save your life after the fight has ended.

Your best option is to get moving, even if you are driving "blind" because you are leaning out the side of your seat. If you remember that when you stopped, you were boxed in and wouldn't be able to move more than a few feet because of traffic conditions, moving may not help you. (Tip: don't get boxed in in traffic. Leave a nice gap when you stop and plan your exit route if you need to move again while traffic around you has stopped).

If you carry when you drive or have a handgun accessible to you from the drivers comparment, remember that the protocol for stopping someone is two aimed shots to the thorassic cavity, followed by a shot to the bridge of the nose (cranial-occular cavity) if the first pair doesn't produce a stop. Do not shoot blindly, and do not hang your sidearm out the window and shoot if you aren't completely aware of the positions of the attackers. The last thing you want is to get disarmed.

If you take a shot from inside the bus, you will probably experience deafnesss, so if you can safely take a shot with the muzzle mostly outside the bus window, but still without risking disarmament, this is a good choice. Also note that if you must shoot through a window, the bullet path will be altered unpredictably. If someone was on the hood and basically "fillling" the windshield, I'd take a shot, but if they were 10 feet away and at ground level, shooting through a closed bus window is just as likely to hit someone innocent as it is to hit the bad guy.

If car jackers appproach from the passenger side door, you probably don't have a lot of options if you're not able to quickly produce a handgun. Don't open the door. If the carjacker is right against the front door, shooting through the door should be effective.

2) to mitigate against someone breaking and entering while you are away
-- expanded metal behind any person-sized windows that are accessible from the ground.
-- make sure that the door, door frame, and sheet metal surrounding the door hardware is as strong as the door lock. If there are windows near the door hardware, put expanded metal behind them.

3) to mitigate against a break-and-enter while you are in the bus:
-- make sure your bus has exterior floodlights that light up all sides. Make sure you can turn them on easily from your sleeping position, without turning on your interior lights.
-- make sure you can move around the bus in darkness and can see the ground on all 4 sides of the bus from various points within
-- make sure you have a 12ga pump shotgun, or a handgun. A standard 1911 pistol with 7rd magazines will be legal in all 50 states, since your RV is your "home". Keep it in something like a GunVault quick-access safe near your sleeping position. The GunVault can be bolted to the bus so that it isn't subject to a quick snatch-and-grab operation