Fortifiying Your Bus Against Intruders Or Attack?

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by thrash

... since your RV is your "home"...

Please state what states agree the "your RV is your home". Do you even know?



If you want to carry a gun in your RV you may want to check here plus the AllStays RV & Gun Guides By State here and read this 2011 article and this article. Like I said earlier. Not all states recognize an RV as a home. Many consider them to be vehicles and treat them like a car.

From 2011 articleStoring loaded handguns and rifles in the residential confines of a motorhome is usually considered legal in most states, as long as they are not readily accessible to drivers or passengers while the vehicle is being operated on a highway. If a person still feels the need to have a firearm close at hand while traveling, it should be carried unloaded, in plain view, and with the bolt/cylinder open or clip removed.

Whether your home is on wheels or permanently attached to a city lot in suburbia, it is not exempt from a legal search as long as due process has been observed. What makes motorhomes and other types of recreational vehicles on or near highways more vulnerable to being searched for probable cause without a warrant is a case law known as the “automobile exception rule.

In all states, motorhomes, vans and vehicles towing trailers or carrying camper-type structures are considered “automobiles” for the purposes of search and seizure. When being operated as such on the highway, an officer with probable cause that a crime has or is being committed involving such a vehicle may stop it and perform a warrantless search for items relevant to the suspected crime (including driver and passengers if legally justified).

If after reading those and you decide to still carry a gun, then you will need to buy a current edition of the United States Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the 50 States.

BTW, many public parks do not allow you to carry a gun, loaded or unloaded, within the boundaries of the park. See here.

[JakeC]

I've decided I'm just going to spit on potential threats. I'm a pretty good shot.

[Accordion]

Originally Posted by JakeC

I've decided I'm just going to spit on potential threats. I'm a pretty good shot.

That is funny.

I once had a dog that would growl and smash her teeth against the car window when anyone approached the vehicle. It was a scary sight to behold. Even my dad would not get close to the car.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by JakeC

I've decided I'm just going to spit on potential threats. I'm a pretty good shot.

Here, Jake, have some orange juice. Really works that phlegm up.

*Cough*

Can I throw my sister's cooking at them?

[lornaschinske]

Originally Posted by Das Mel

... Can I throw my sister's cooking at them?

Assault with a deadly weapon?

[thrash]

Lorna,

I appreciate the links. It is my opinion that people should carry. My point about the 1911 was that its magazine was low capacity enough that it should be fine anywhere handguns are allowed. A revolver is also fine, but a reliable semi tends to put more shots on target faster.

You're right -- I'm by no means an expert on the law, and it hardly matters since cops regularly break the law anyhow.

Nevertheless, my opinion is that decent people should arm themselves, and if somehow you have a brush with the legal system, lawyer up.

"Judged by 12" being preferable to "carried by 6", as the saying goes...

One thing you can do to make your life easier is to acquire concealed weapons permits that cover the states you travel in. Often, these permits allow you to carry a loaded concealed gun in a moving vehicle.

A basic 12ga pump and a basic handgun are each under $500, and so if somehow you have a run in with the law and they confiscate your weapons and charge you with something, you're not giving up priceless heirloom firearms or losing more money than you'd blow on fuel anyway...

Speaking of RVs and the law, here's an interesting thing I came across. Based on the available literature, it is not possible to visit Hoover Dam in an RV if you are carrying a firearm. The RV parking is on the far side of the dam, and it is illegal to bring a firearm across the dam in a vehicle, and there is an inspection station 1 mile ahead of the dam. They claim that all RV's will be searched.

Carrying a gun in your car would be fine -- since cars can park on the "near" side of the dam.

So, that's a frustrating situation -- one that I haven't run into elsewhere. I plan on calling the dam visitors office and asking about the policy.

[Das Mel]

Originally Posted by lornaschinske

Assault with a deadly weapon?

Have you eaten her cooking lately?

Originally Posted by Part-time

Do you have an air compressor in your motorhome????

I have one in my car. Why wouldn't I have one in my bus?

[JakeC]

So, the guy who wanted to drive his bus through Mexico... He should have just read THIS thread!! He would have been prepared for anything ;)

[Sara]

I can think of many reasons to fortify a bus. Bear attacks are common, but probably not damaging to a regular bus. (They're more afraid of us than we are of them??)

Then again, there are articles like this that make me steer clear of certain national parks / campsites. Doesn't sound like the right vacation spot for me with a small tent. If you had an armor-bound skoolie, however....

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... lynes.html

I used to want to be a park ranger so I could enjoy nature and basically trek around trails. Looks like the National Parks Association has changed things a bit!

[JakeC]

A solidly fortified bus would be the only way to survive there!! It would be like mad max on steroids.

[Sara]

I guess we can look at the current decline of civilization for an indication on how much you need to worry about things like this. For example, how safe are parks at night? In the mountains and in some remote areas, cell phone reception might be unreliable; another consideration is how long it might take for someone to respond to an emergency situation.

I think the biggest draw to a skoolie is the amount of self-sufficiency you possess. How viable is this self-sufficiency in the wilderness when you might face situations that fall outside the norm for people housebound in a suburb?

Carrying some kind of self-defensive weapon seems like common sense safety. Whether it is a Mace-type of spray, some sort of metal-pipe-whomping-stick, a firearm, etc., I think it might be necessary for trekking in the more remote parts of the country where emergency situations without help might arise. I'm not advocating a mobile arsenal (unless that's something you want), but moreso wondering what kind of viable structural security exists within the bus itself. For example, normal school bus doors don't seem like they were made to keep out thieves, zombies, hitch-hiking psychos, etc. What about windows? If I was looking to protect my family from, say, the zombie apocalypse, do I need a copy of the Rolling Thunder (from GI Joe) or is there an easy way to make a bus safe but not the focus of some insane survival show?

[thjakits]

...OKAY!! Need to get this thread going - .....one more time!

Hi all!
...back from the infamous "common email provider kick out" some time ago!
I see that most of the interesting posts on this thread were killed too.....

Let's see if w can get some comon sense solutions on track (...for discussion) again:

Common up-front assumption:
Solutions have to be somewhat affordable

1) Windows/Glass - I predict that any un-breakability is off the table for cost and weight. However I seem to remember that 3M had/has some film/foil that would be applied to any window and make nearly bullet-penetration proof: Your glass will shatter, but the film will keep everything together and catch the round in the process. Anyone with facts and/or experience?

2) About the same for sheet metal areas - carbon/kevlar/aramid cloth to hang between the outer metal and the insulation. Won't stop holes in the bus, but rounds going through the living spaces....

3) Fire arms - I think it is safe to say, that owning fire-power and travelling a lot is a legal nightmare! [Just look at the recent news cast about a young single mother of 2, getting a legal gun in Pensylvania, driving across to NJ, getting pulled over for a minor traffic thing, actually telling the cop, that she has a gun on board and is licensed in PA - now looking at a few years in jail, because NJ laws are too in-flexible! She bought the gun to protect her and the kids and now gets locked up for it - WTF?!!]
Unless all states agree on ONE set of rules and make it federal - fire-arms are not any good in my book!
Not even starting with cross border travel south....

4) So - HOW about tools and toys?
Before I was kicked out (gmail.c ouch) with all my posts - I suggest to look into nailguns (air and cartridge powered - most Skoolies should have air-tanks?) and "modified" paintball gear.... Yes - your warranty will be expired as soon as you modify the tools/toys, but I can live with that!
Also, you most likely will not be shooting medium or long range, but very close range - close enough to have drag a few feet of airhose with you!!
Obviously, it would take a little prep to have this at the ready throughout and around the bus....

A paintball-machine gun with modified amo: If it doesn't kill it certainly will hurt enough to make your opponent think twice!

Anyone ever tried any of this yet?


Cheers,

thjakits

[abwetzel63]

Before anyone goes out and up-armors their bus, they need to figure out what they are defending against. The bus body itself will stop physical entry, only leaving the doors and windows as possible entry points. For protection against incoming rounds, well, I don't think you can really armor against a large hunting caliber such as 30-06 or .300 or larger, let alone the dude who shoots at you with a .50 cal Armor Piercing round. Like, whoa... So, gotta make some assumptions that most punks and pukes will be firing pistol caliber or light rifle rounds (.223, 7.62x39 (NOT 7.62x51 or 54) because that is what they see all the cool people in Hollyweird using. This is basically Level IIIA or Level IV armor, Level IIIA being what most cops use, Level IV being what many SWAT teams use.

Just gotta go with the following assumption: Window are forever going to be a weakpoint, even using magic 3m film or lexan. I don't think bullet proof weight windows are really affordable or lightweight enough. The best you can do is to reduce the amount of spalling (shards and stuff) and the 3m film or lexan would help on that.

For stuff penetrating the bus body, that is what a spall liner of some aramid fiber (Kevlar, etc.) Spall liners don't stop full sized rounds, but they do keep small stuff and bits of the outer skin from flying around. You might be able to find some out-of-warranty Kevlar vests and cover or stuff them where needed (it is what a lot of Police Departments do to up-armor some vehicles and locations). Heavy leather works well too. (Used in WW1 and WW2 for crew armor for tanks by some countries) Anything thick and full of goodly resistance works fabulously. Another modern material is UHMD (Ultra-High Molecular Density) plastic, which is very good for slowing or stopping rounds, but not inexpensive (Watch Rocket City Rednecks, the episode where Dr. Dr. Dr. Travis Taylor and his merry band of misfits makes a full suit of body armor (Gotta love a Redneck Nerd))

[thjakits]

Well, if we needed/wanted to get a really bulletproof ride, a skoolie is probably the wrong project.

the whole idea (for me anyway....) is to get away from any possible trouble, incl. gangs, burglars, robbers, hand gun fire.....
[If someone is specifically after you - they will get you anyway ....unless you are some kind of specialist and can neutralize the thread]

I assume most of us, would look towards some basic (budget/weight) protection (the out-of-warranty kevlar jackets are a great idea! Are they any good as insulation?). Sometimes going on the offensive (paintball artillery and nailguns) might just get you enough time/surprise to fire up and get going!


Just saw a few rather cheap gadgets on jaycar.com - IR cameras and sensors....

thjakits

[abwetzel63]

Kevlar truly sucks when it gets wet, so do your insulation normally, maybe a little thinner, vapor barrier, vests, then the inner skin. Should work best that way. As to getting them, check out your local PD if you are friendly with them, or check your local government surplus shop. You can also buy Kevlar fabric and make your own by just layering and layering the stuff over itself.

As to real defenses, go with sight, sound and smell.

Light - try mounting external LED lamps with motion sensors. Get a really powerful spotlight or two. Jacklight the sucker once he's lit up by the super spots and he'll be temporarily blinded. Superbright lights even work during the day. LEDs or halogens that are really colorbright are the best. Do not use lasers as they are illegal. Really. Lasers bad. Did you get that? Don't use Lasers...

Sound - External PA system to make enough noise that others besides the bad guy start paying attention. Don't use a car alarm. Everyone is de-sensitized to those. My favorite is an electronic version of Carmina Burana... Not the holy music you were looking for. Think Slim Whitman music as used in "Mars Attacks!"

Smell - Bear Spray or Hornet Spray, both are very powerful and shoot out a long way.

Those are your best less-than-lethal methods.

If you want, get a cheap pump shotgun with an 18" barrel and load it with bean bag, baton (wooden dowels) or rubber slugs. If you do this, take bright colored duck tape (I did say cheap gun, right?) and wrap the stock and forearm with it. Thatway you can easily tell that the bright gun is the dumb gun. If you have to take a shot, shoot for center of mass. DO NOT SHOOT THE HEAD OR GONADS as that takes away the less-than portion of the gun and only leaves you the lethal portion.

You can pick up a portable electric fence kit to surround your bus with. The shock will slow most humans, and tend to ward off bears. Humans, being stooopid, will still tend to move forward, but unless you're being attacked by mute ninjas, they should make enough noise to alert you. Make sure you do not put the poles directly in front or behind the wheels in case you need to boogie out of there (you probably don't want to spike your own tires.) Unfortunately, most RV and Trailer/Mobile Home parks will probably frown upon you setting up an electric fence, so this is for boondocking only.

Here are some suggestions for hand weapons.

Now, for physical protection, try getting a shingle hatchet. Looks like a hatchet with a hammer head, usually lightweight. I actually prefer to fight with one of these over a tomahawk, as the hammer head allows you to break bones.

A nice fiberglass sledgehammer handle for outside work, or a cut down (24") for using inside or while at a doorway. Use it single handed, like a baton. Practice striking with it a lot. Keep it in front of you and practice throwing your shot with your body by rotating your hips, then letting the arm follow. (Look up Society of Creative Anachronism for fighting training videos, or for the local fighter practice. These people use rattan rods covered in duck tape and beat each other silly with them (while wearing armor)(Hey, its fun and good exercise!)) Or check out a local martial arts studio (NOT AMERICAN TAI-KWAN-DO ACADEMY STORES - They suck). I mean a real martial arts studio. They'll teach you the same technique as the SCA but will charge you instead.

As to firearms, if you have a CCW, then you should know enough already to check out your state's reciprocity agreements with other states. I live in Florida so if I get a CCW, I can legally carry pretty much anywhere that has a decent CCW policy. But if I had one, I would check the NRA site for any current legal issues in the states I would be travelling to. Same if you don't have a CCW but you do have firearms. Check out state websites or the NRA website to find out the legal requirements for transporting a firearm in a particular state. And due to their butt-headedness, I am not going to New Jersey, New York or California. Even if I don't have a gun on me, I don't want to deal with those states due to their treatment of gun owners.

My two cents.
t
Hope it helps.

Don't advocate hurting anyone. But then again, I don't advocate being hurt. It is up to you to assess the situation and deal with it.

Now, if I could just get that .45-70 Gatling gun mounted on my bus, well, Repel BOARDERS!!! oh, wait, no gun, no bus. Dreams shot down....

[Locutus]

Originally Posted by thjakits

Unless all states agree on ONE set of rules and make it federal -

Did that already. It's called the 2nd Amendment. But unfortunately States seem to think they can ignore it.

[thjakits]

...well, then it's kind of useless, isn't it?
[http://www.georgianewsday.com/news/r...fic-stop.html]

...and somewhere along, the cops "suggest" not to volunteer facts! Well, what happens if you shut up, they decide to search your car (God forbit you actually object to the search!) and they find the gun?! (....worse, being a black girl, like in the PA case, prejudice probably taking over big time and she's busted.....again or anyway!)

So anyway you go at it, you're wrong!

I think, IF I ever get to build my bus and travel, I'd go paintball and nailgun!

Maybe I get a DeWalt nailgun-permit!

thjakits

[abwetzel63]

Blow torch. Chain-saw. Or toss a powered up router at them (the only tool I truly fear...)

If you use anything as an offensive weapon, the bad cops and prosecutors (those are the ones who really screw up the system) will toss you under a... bus.

Good cops and prosecutors will let you get away with using a main gun from an Abrams tank.

Unfortunately, most traffic cops tend to be the, well, less than helpful variety. NOTE: This is a broad statement. There are nice traffic cops and there are not-nice traffic cops. Having worked for a police department (not a cop) I have noticed that most "real" cops look down upon "traffic" cops. My experience with various police officers tends to support this theory.

Still, your best bet is to research what stupidity each state is up to, and avoid those states that do not fit your concept of a decent place (law-wise) to pass through or visit.

As it is, I am beginning to think it would be easier to go to Canada to get to Maine, rather than going through New York. But I gotta research what the Canadians will and won't allow in their country (Still gotta be easier to transport guns through Canada than through New Jersey and New York. Gotta be.)

Still like the concept of a self-defense chainsaw wheeeeddeeedeeeeedeeeweeeeddeeedeeeeeeeeee...

[thjakits]

Selfdefense Chainsaw is no good!

One wrong move and you do damage to yourself or God forbid to your beloved bus!
....AND trouble has to be too close to reach!

In any case - you probably would try to avoid to be attacking part ever - retaliation or "changing offensive minds" is my goal - no idea about firing rates of machine gun paintballs, but I suggest it would be enough to hurt a little!! Especially if you use non-paintballs!!

Also have no idea about the firing frequency possible with a nail gun, but clever minds probably could modify anything to get an automatic going!

I think once you start to "hedgehog" an agressive individual with a nail gun, their agression should tend to subside and change into surprise and retreat/protection!

HA! DEFINITELY will check into nailguns sometime!!

thjakits

[abwetzel63]

Nailguns will shoot nicely, but then you have the annoying problem of all the blood, and all of the peeved rv owners who are cheesed about the missed shots.

Solid shot are available, or can be made. My experience is they really hurt, like really really hurt. Never trust someone with frozen balls.