Fortifiying Your Bus Against Intruders Or Attack?

[lornaschinske]

While I personally believe that the constitution gives every american the right to bear arms and that means I or my weapons shouldn't have to be permitted or registered etc, that belief has nothing to do with the "real" world.


Your #1 line of defense is the ability to LEAVE. Always park in a manner that will allow you to leave quickly. Avoid the dangerous areas or places that your instincts tell you is a questionable area. If you get new neighbours that creep you (or your spouse) and you are alone.... leave out (if they ask, tell them you have an emergency or you are meeting up with a friend in another area). If you are with a female who normally isn't freaked out over new places, ask her how she feels about a place. Women usually have good instincts. Usually, not always.

[thjakits]

Unfortunately most folks have NO bloody idea (anymore...) about the WHY of the constitution!
The Right to bear arms has nothing to do with PERSONAL defense (as it is portrayed today...), but as a means for "the people" to defend themselves as a people/community against a government that turned against its people!

I am certainly not a specialist on American History, but I did read up on the Constitutional points just because of the gun-debate....

Unfortunately, the Constitution is abused as a lousy excuse for the arms industry to sell more - that's all there is!
NRA is not helping either by being paranoid about "impending total arms prohibition" (which would be a big mistake, like in Australia....)
If NRA would promote PROPER arms posession, stupid things would eliminate themselves...
Number one/two thing is a thorough background check for anyone wanting to buy/own a fire arm and a psychological assessment! And that's pretty much the only things needed!!
What's a few days waiting to clear your record and off you go with whatever you want to carry?
And most folks, that have the proper mindset will pass both and should be allowed to carry whatever they want!
Then you don't need a dis-functional 10-round mag limit, etc....
You could even have people own full-auto asault rifles, they wouldn't be used unless REALLY needed.....

As it is (...not verified), I understand all I need is an ID (US citizens only!) and I can walk out of a gun shop with at least a revolver? WTF??

Anyway, as Lorna said, the first line of defense is keeping the ability to LEAVE/RUN!

All this discussion about arming up and fortifying the bus - for me - is all about giving myself (and my passengers...) a chance to get back to the point where I have the LEAVE/RUN option again - ...because I missed the window in the first place....
If in the process of getting back to that point, the agressive party decides that it is not worth their trouble to pursue their agression - even better!

Now, fire away!

thjakits

[abwetzel63]

Unfortunately, 2nd Amendment support is like 1st Amendment support. Either you support all sides of it, the good, the bad, the warts and all, or it will slowly be chipped away and then you have nothing. Like England or Australia or... Germany pre-NAZI and during NAZI. Sucks. But tothat is why the NRA is so horn-dog about anything possibly smelling like potential gun control or other such carp.

One of the early defenses of the 2nd Amendment in the Supreme Court brought up the "militia" aspect of it. Someone pointed out that militia use of a pos low power weapon is useless, while a cannon or rapid fire gun is definitely within the militia profile. Case quietly dropped

Best way to get oneself out of the deep cracky is to have the mindset that once everything goes south, one will act morally, logically and swiftly to bring oneself and those around to a position of stability and security and freedom. This may mean that things that normally are distasteful, like shooting someone, cutting or chopping them, stabbing them, setting fire to them, killing them, have to become the norm until "normalicy" returns. (I know, preachy, preachy, preachy.)

So, basically, you either load for bear and prepare to put bear 6' under, even if you don't ever need to, or you can surround yourself with less-than-lethal crap and go under when the Huns pour over the walls. Sorry, a bang-bang gun has more emotional stopping power than a nail or a paint-ball gun. By using a "real" weapon, vs a hocked together thingy, you will have infinitely more power than a Home-Depot Warrior.

Bleh. Much easier as Lorna says to boot scoot and boogie outa harm's way before too things go bad.

From what I have read in the forums most skoolies when they are skooling tend to plan ahead and stock up on basic supplies. They tend to check weather and road conditions before leaving. They tend to plan on large amounts of fuel storage and water storages so they can live off-grid, even if all they ever do is to go to a campground and hook up.

This puts them ahead of 95% of the sheep out there.

Most of them want to get out away from the deep-cracky and go to some place quiet. Again, this puts them ahead of the sheeple in a big way.

If you are truly worried about bad people out there, don't vacation in cities, don't vacation along any of our or your boarders, don't vacation in any democratically controlled state.

Bleh. I want my skoolie and I wanna go away!

[thjakits]

We certainly do agree on most all posted!

The discussion (for me at least...) is all about the 5% of time one screwed up with the LEAVE/RUN window or things are getting out of hand anyway.

As said - with some common-sense-looking-ahead planning that should be possible.....

I also agree, that I would certainly prefer the arsenal of my choice incl. the nasty ammunition - ....HOWEVER, I plan to travel and see the continents, north and south, so chances are I won't be back in the same corner anytime soon after passing through (which might take a few month, if I like the place - hell! ...might get stuck there, who knows! But the plan is to slowly see it all...) - so, the nice arsenal (that I probably could assemble for a few select states...) is not going to happen, goin' south from the US even less so.

The alternative is to tap into toys and tools and make them do......which may by no means be cheaper - quite possibly can be more expensive than real fire-arms...

Tools&Toys are just a way to go, IF the real deal is not available for travel.....


Cheers,

thjakits

[aaronsb]

Fun thread, I like hypothetical stuff.

My thoughts after reading about everyone wanting to defend from ballistics? You're gonna need a bigger chassis to carry all your armor.



The Multi3 FSA is based on a Man Kat 8x8 chassis. Armored cab - occupant height reduces injuries from IED and mines. The chassis is large and powerful enough to carry living quarters.

The living quarters cabin is fabricated from steel armor plate, ceramic liner and aramid flat sheet spall shield. It might end up being 5-10 inches thick, but them's the breaks. Keep windows to a minimum. You'd probably want to give it some nice angles to deflect the energy, so take some notes from the buffalo MRAP and the LAK bodies on Ural trucks.

So, you've certainly traded fuel economy, practicality, and comfort for protection. You're still vulnerable to HEAT rounds, so perhaps so reactive or slat armor around the outside to give you a fighting chance.

What have we built? Something a little like this little guy, but even bigger:



Now the trick would be to not draw attention from every bad guy in a 100 kilometer radius. Perhaps you can get a vehicle wrap made to look like a prevost, it might fool a few people.

[ol trunt]

Never mind the Prevost. I want my vehicle wrap to look like the Little Guy!!!

[thjakits]

Well, guys,

if the military gear is wanted/required - what/why are we talking skoolie?
There is plenty of heavy off-road gear out there, but as stated "your mileage may vary!" - [as in "suck".....]

Seriously, if you need "Little Guy"-equipment you are driving in the wrong COUNTRY - not just in the wrong neighborhood!

As also stated, the idea is to have a chance to get back to the point where you missed the chance to run or just took the wrong turn.
If the goin' gets hot, I would expect some damage to the bus, as long as I get AWAY!

So, I am not talking heavy armor, but possibly some way to slow down rounds enough to not penetrate all the way through the bus - does anyone know about some fabric that would "fishnet" rounds? Hang it somewhat loose between the outer body panels and the insulation - round comes through the body panel - hits the fabric - drags it along and gets slowed to a stop within a few inches of travel....

I think the same goes for the film-on-window technic....

Once the bad guys use real high-power gear, you didn't take a wrong turn or missed the run-away spot - you are on a LIST and will certainly need even something better than the "Little Guy"....

thjakits

[Redbear]

Originally Posted by thjakits

. . . . does anyone know about some fabric that would "fishnet" rounds? Hang it somewhat loose between the outer body panels and the insulation - round comes through the body panel - hits the fabric - drags it along and gets slowed to a stop within a few inches of travel....
thjakits

You might check around junkyards for old cop cars . . after the shoot-out in California a few years back, "ballistic panels" were an available option to be added inside the doors of CVPI (Crown Vics) and Special Service Tahoes to provide cover in a shoot-out. I can't speak for other models, but I don't think they've been available on Dodge Chargers. If they haven't been peeled off, modified doors have a little white circle label on the inside panel advising the occupants that the doors will provide cover.

Most rounds will go through an un-modified door. In one city, I saw a used door in storage that had been deliberately shot at in a police pistol range, and the various sized holes were marked with a sharpie to educate the officers what type of rounds had penetrated the door. That door made me a believer in 00 buckshot.

If you are really concerned about this, buy yourself a couple of the modified doors, take them apart, and re-purpose at least a panel or two below the Skoolie's driver's window. That way, you won't take one in the side from across the street during your escape, driving while peeking through the steering wheel spokes like the proverbial little old lady.

These panels won't help for shots from the sidewalk if you have the standard glass doors, but PapaBear who started this thread almost 5 years ago did close up his front entrance and install a navigator's seat. A side entry was constructed further back.

[Lightfoot]

Although I highly doubt it, I hope most folks will come to realize exactly WHAT the NRA really is and why they exist. I was a card carrying member back in the late 70's, and back then they were selling the same line of bull that they are today. They've been telling you that the government is coming to take your guns away from you since FOREVER! Yet when you look around today, IF you're old enough to remember, and of course only IF you are intellectually honest enough to admit it, in the U.S. as a whole, there are FEWER laws controlling gun ownership today than there were 30 years ago.

The cogent point to understand is this: The leadership of the NRA has set for itself the goal of making itself, first and foremost, into a powerful political machine whose sole purpose is to be able to WIELD THAT POWER, to influence elections and in essence set themselves up as powerful political brokers, kingmakers if you will, while their purported function as a protector of gun rights is a distant second. A little research will show that the NRA has often backed candidates running against incumbents/candidates who have had 100% ratings according to their own rating system, but they consistently backed more extreme conservatives simply because for them it's about POLITICS not about protecting gun rights.

Their constant fear mongering is strictly a propaganda tool to allow them to CONTROL avid gun owners and squeeze $$$ out of them by keeping them fearful of some imagined government conspiracy to take away ALL GUNS, right down to cap-guns. And it is a lie. There never has been any such secret conspiracy. But that's what they want you to believe so that they can control you, take your money, and tell you how to vote. Been that way as long as I can remember. And the sad thing is that they won't even back the simplest of common sense legislation, legislation that over 80% of the population supports like background checks that would make sure criminals and foreign terrorists can't buy guns (or closing the gun show loopholes for the same reasons). Here's the rundown:

-- 90 percent of Americans and 90 percent of gun owners support fixing gaps in government databases that are meant to prevent the mentally ill, drug abusers and others from buying guns.
-- 91 percent of Americans and 93 percent of gun owners support requiring federal agencies to share information about suspected dangerous persons or terrorists to prevent them from buying guns.
-- 89 percent of Americans and 89 percent of gun owners support full funding of the law a unanimous Congress passed and President George W. Bush signed after the Virginia Tech shootings to put more records in the background-check database.
-- 86 percent of Americans and 81 percent of gun owners support requiring all gun buyers to pass a background check, no matter where they buy the gun and no matter who they buy it from.
-- 89 percent of Americans and 85 percent of gun owners support a law to require background checks for all guns sold at gun shows.
In terms of protecting Second Amendment rights, 79 percent of Americans and 90 percent of gun owners said they believe an individual has the right to own guns, and the amendment is not limited to protecting the rights of state militias. Eighty percent of Americans and 90 percent of gun owners oppose a law that would ban the sale of all handguns.

REALLY SIMPLE STUFF RIGHT , but the NRA refuses to back any of this common sense legislation. Why? Because they are not here to help - it's not on their agenda - their only tactic is to oppose and stall ALL gun control legislation so that when election time comes it will to be a continual battle that they can then point to and explain to all the fearful gun fanatics that SEE, this is the secret government conspiracy we keep warning you about, this is how it starts, BE AFRAID because once these laws are passed, THEN they'll come for your assault rifles, and then your hunting rifles and then your handguns, BE VERY AFRAID, RUN, SCURRY, FLEE, FLEE! And like a bunch of puppets on a string, the gun fanatics dance to the NRA's bidding, forking over their $$$ and voting for hard-line nutbags, what a bunch of gomers, I swear, lol. But the clueless will remain so, forever, it's just in their nature.

BTW, if you think that the NRA is responsible for saving gun ownership in America, reread the underlined part in that list of polling. See that bit about "79 percent of Americans" being completely in favor of private gun ownership? THAT is what is keeping gun control laws in check NOT THE NRA. Only 5% of gun owners are actually card-carrying members and only about 30% of Americans even know much if anything about the NRA. Their biggest influence comes from bullying candidates with threats of opposition to their candidacy, or from the MOSTLY FALSE adds they pay for during elections, although judging from the results, they are pretty bad at picking winners, lol.

Though it spent nearly $11 million on the 2012 election, the National Rifle Association saw less than 1 percent of its money go toward its desired result, according to the Sunlight Foundation—a nonpartisan group that uses data to promote government transparency.
While the NRA supported 27 winning candidates, it used the majority of its donated funds to target Democrats, most of whom wound up defeating their Republican rivals.
According to the Sunlight's data, the gun rights group doled out nearly $9 million to oppose Democrats, spending nearly $7.5 million to run ads opposing Barack Obama alone.

But unfortunately as long as the sheeple keep funneling money to them, the NRA can continue to scare Republican politicians into voting against even the most sensible of legislation (even when 80% of their own party are in favor of it) . That's why we need to get money out of politics, but that's another debate altogether, lol.

Ahh drat, I let myself get sucked into another political debate, lol, I think I need to go to rehab or something...
;?D

[thjakits]

Relax Lightfoot,

same old, same old!!

For me there will be no chance to carry anyway - I am not American.
In my country of residence I can carry whatever I like, though it is hard to get 10mm amo, but for my 9mm - no problem.
Detailed background check, psychological check, etc., renew every 5 years....

However to travel through most Latin countries, I will depend on the "Alternate Equipment" mentioned earlier.... - if I get to it!


cheers,

thjakits

[Lightfoot]

Returning to the original topic, while it may have been mentioned, I've seen some homemade armor constructed from multiple layers of fiberglass woven fiber and resin. I had a similar thought, but rather than trying to protect the entire vehicle, my thinking was to try to create a small protected space, mostly due to the expense, and weight as well. So if you're being shot at, for whatever reason, your first reaction is to hit the deck, so as a guide your protected space doesn't need to be more than say 18" tall (unless you have, uh, more body that needs protecting, then increase height as needed ). Four sides makes it more difficult, but if your're really limited on your budget, then a small space like your bathroom might be the best place to apply this armor. But how useful that would be is debatable, you'd need time to get to your "safe" room, so I'm sure it depends on the particular situation. Can't plan for everything, I actually like the idea of an escape hatch through the bottom of your vehicle, that way you can surprise em when you open fire from there, lol.

[Lightfoot]

Hey Thjakets,
Yeah I hear ya, it's just that the subject of the NRA really gets under my skin. I've been a gun owner all my life, used to be a fairly avid hunter when I lived in Alaska (not so much lately cuz in comparison the hunting everywhere else, especially Iowa, sucks ), but these days I'm a dedicated Non-NRA fan, lol, can't stand em for all the reasons above.

But anywho, so you got a 9mm, eh, what brand if you don't mind my asking? I've owned several 9's in my life, but my favorites were an old S&W 39, followed by a Beretta M9. These days I just have a 12ga and an old 30-40 Krag, but when I hit the road I'm considering buying a Walther PPS, either 9mm or S&W .40, haven't decided yet.

[thjakits]

Lightfoot,

FN-9mm-Detective (Argentinian Version of the Belgian "Original" of the Browning-design) - however I never carry......
Hope, things around here won't get so bad that carrying would become a must....

thjakits

[bansil]

its a mute point depending on the agenda of folks f%^$#% with your home.....2 or 3 folks...no issue (fingers crossed) more who the F%^$ knows....i will say this .....If I know your here to harm us....thats fine...folks gonna die before we go....or atleast me...I pray it's both of us...' cause she deserves no wrong

I have had a glass or so......i will say that folks can talk all the **** they want.....no issues,.....no worries....

people say this and that, I can guarantee this....I can and will protect my loved ones to the end...I will drink a cold one after the fact...
if not?????


well.....then....I will raise my sabre.......and...... I will see my friends at fiddlers green..,,,


If I am not CC or OC, I can guaranteee at least a key to the neck if not a knife....I will bite someones cheek off or a finger to make them let me go....for real...wake up!!!

Fwk MORALS AND SELF PITY....you and your loved ones mean everything....do what you must

survive and move on...

[thjakits]

AMEN to that!
But I'd like a chance to get away BEFORE we get to that - ....and eventually I believe I find the right way (not to heavy, but still capable of stopping small arms fire - maybe not all the way up), also a way to become sufficiently "aggressive/offensive" to be able to make them think twice and get away in the meantime - with my toy/tool arsenal if need be....

There were a few funny pics on this thread - the DeWalt assault nail gun was really special!
However - there is quite a line of tools and toys that can become seriously dangerous if you don't know what you do (...or if you DO!! )

Ideally, one would be able to carry whatever arms one wants and could use them for self defense when needed - laws are too twisted and one-sided for that.
So one needs to improvise!

Best of course is to avoid trouble in the first place.
However when trouble doesn't want to avoid you or you missed the "exit" - I want/need a chance to get back to the avoid and exit point.....

Cheers,

thjakits

[crazycal]

Originally Posted by Lightfoot

Although I highly doubt it, I hope most folks will come to realize exactly WHAT the NRA really is and why they exist. I was a card carrying member back in the late 70's, and back then they were selling the same line of bull that they are today. They've been telling you that the government is coming to take your guns away from you since FOREVER! Yet when you look around today, IF you're old enough to remember, and of course only IF you are intellectually honest enough to admit it, in the U.S. as a whole, there are FEWER laws controlling gun ownership today than there were 30 years ago.

The cogent point to understand is this: The leadership of the NRA has set for itself the goal of making itself, first and foremost, into a powerful political machine whose sole purpose is to be able to WIELD THAT POWER, to influence elections and in essence set themselves up as powerful political brokers, kingmakers if you will, while their purported function as a protector of gun rights is a distant second. A little research will show that the NRA has often backed candidates running against incumbents/candidates who have had 100% ratings according to their own rating system, but they consistently backed more extreme conservatives simply because for them it's about POLITICS not about protecting gun rights.

Their constant fear mongering is strictly a propaganda tool to allow them to CONTROL avid gun owners and squeeze $$$ out of them by keeping them fearful of some imagined government conspiracy to take away ALL GUNS, right down to cap-guns. And it is a lie. There never has been any such secret conspiracy. But that's what they want you to believe so that they can control you, take your money, and tell you how to vote. Been that way as long as I can remember. And the sad thing is that they won't even back the simplest of common sense legislation, legislation that over 80% of the population supports like background checks that would make sure criminals and foreign terrorists can't buy guns (or closing the gun show loopholes for the same reasons). Here's the rundown:

-- 90 percent of Americans and 90 percent of gun owners support fixing gaps in government databases that are meant to prevent the mentally ill, drug abusers and others from buying guns.
-- 91 percent of Americans and 93 percent of gun owners support requiring federal agencies to share information about suspected dangerous persons or terrorists to prevent them from buying guns.
-- 89 percent of Americans and 89 percent of gun owners support full funding of the law a unanimous Congress passed and President George W. Bush signed after the Virginia Tech shootings to put more records in the background-check database.
-- 86 percent of Americans and 81 percent of gun owners support requiring all gun buyers to pass a background check, no matter where they buy the gun and no matter who they buy it from.
-- 89 percent of Americans and 85 percent of gun owners support a law to require background checks for all guns sold at gun shows.
In terms of protecting Second Amendment rights, 79 percent of Americans and 90 percent of gun owners said they believe an individual has the right to own guns, and the amendment is not limited to protecting the rights of state militias. Eighty percent of Americans and 90 percent of gun owners oppose a law that would ban the sale of all handguns.

REALLY SIMPLE STUFF RIGHT , but the NRA refuses to back any of this common sense legislation. Why? Because they are not here to help - it's not on their agenda - their only tactic is to oppose and stall ALL gun control legislation so that when election time comes it will to be a continual battle that they can then point to and explain to all the fearful gun fanatics that SEE, this is the secret government conspiracy we keep warning you about, this is how it starts, BE AFRAID because once these laws are passed, THEN they'll come for your assault rifles, and then your hunting rifles and then your handguns, BE VERY AFRAID, RUN, SCURRY, FLEE, FLEE! And like a bunch of puppets on a string, the gun fanatics dance to the NRA's bidding, forking over their $$$ and voting for hard-line nutbags, what a bunch of gomers, I swear, lol. But the clueless will remain so, forever, it's just in their nature.

BTW, if you think that the NRA is responsible for saving gun ownership in America, reread the underlined part in that list of polling. See that bit about "79 percent of Americans" being completely in favor of private gun ownership? THAT is what is keeping gun control laws in check NOT THE NRA. Only 5% of gun owners are actually card-carrying members and only about 30% of Americans even know much if anything about the NRA. Their biggest influence comes from bullying candidates with threats of opposition to their candidacy, or from the MOSTLY FALSE adds they pay for during elections, although judging from the results, they are pretty bad at picking winners, lol.

Though it spent nearly $11 million on the 2012 election, the National Rifle Association saw less than 1 percent of its money go toward its desired result, according to the Sunlight Foundation—a nonpartisan group that uses data to promote government transparency.
While the NRA supported 27 winning candidates, it used the majority of its donated funds to target Democrats, most of whom wound up defeating their Republican rivals.
According to the Sunlight's data, the gun rights group doled out nearly $9 million to oppose Democrats, spending nearly $7.5 million to run ads opposing Barack Obama alone.

But unfortunately as long as the sheeple keep funneling money to them, the NRA can continue to scare Republican politicians into voting against even the most sensible of legislation (even when 80% of their own party are in favor of it) . That's why we need to get money out of politics, but that's another debate altogether, lol.

Ahh drat, I let myself get sucked into another political debate, lol, I think I need to go to rehab or something...
;?D

There is no such thing as 90% anything. Those are BS numbers thrown about by the likes of MSLSD. Some poll of 1,000 people extrapolated to 320,000,000 people. If you asked 1000 men if they wanted a free blowjob for life by anyone they wanted, you couldn't get 90%.

You want to talk about the government taking guns away? How about legislating them out of existence? In California, the list is long.

1. First federal assault weapon ban
2. First CA AWB.
3. Second AWB.
4. Ban on magazines over 10 rounds.
5. $25 to take a test for handgun safety card.
6. New safety card for long gun purchase. Hunter safety does not count.
7. Attempted ban on online ammo purchase. Local bans in place.
8. One handgun purchase per 30 days.
9. Extra registraion required if you buy more than 2 guns at a time in states bordering Mexico because the President sold guns to drug cartels.
10. No purchase of handguns not on the approved handgun roster.
11. New handgun roster requiring round in chamber indicator and magazine safety disconnect or whatever they call it.
12. California DOJ has been showing up at houses to remove firearms from individuals.

The list goes on and on. This is what I could come up with at the time of writing this. Dozens of new laws are introduced every year. Not all new gun laws are a full frontal assault. Many are back door restrictions. I think this is a case of the camel sticking its nose under the tent. Oh, I almost forgot. Arnie Boobengrabber signed a .50 cal ban on the same day the federal AWB sunsetted.

[bansil]

Originally Posted by crazycal

If you asked 1 man if he wanted a free blowjob for life by anyone he wanted, you would get a 100% answer

FIFY

[crazycal]

Originally Posted by bansil

FIFY

That's cheating.

[cschlessman]

Along the lines of taking guns away. Just listen to what the left says. Nuff said

Out of my cold and dead hands!

Chuck

[bansil]

getting closer, just put in the oven



I dont know tho, went on way to dry