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Old 09-20-2018, 07:38 PM   #21
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Look up "water suction hose" on Google. I did and it listed a bunch of suction hoses.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by kidharris View Post
This "Water MAKER!" converts water to potable water (boats are surrounded by water) It does not convert humidity into potable water.


However, if you find something (portable or not)that does convert humidity into potable water, besides energy intensive refrigeration systems and fog based systems, please let us know. I for one would be very interested.
Now that I think about it, the ones I've seen are AC powered. I'll have to look into the power requirements of them.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:14 PM   #23
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You are completely off track. These guys are telling you straight. A typical water hose is not built to handle suction, only pressure. Just hook one up and see. We all have made that mistake. If you have to use one have the pump push thru the hose.


For an easily seen example grab an unopened soda can (closed system, full of liquid) and squeeze it. Now open the can (open system, full of liquid) and squeeze it. Your hand is acting like atmospheric pressure pushing inward on the can. The can, like the garden hose, is built to restrain an outward pressure, not an inward pressure. When the can is closed and full of liquid, it is the fact that liquids are not compressible and that there is no where for the liquid to go that prevents the can from collapsing (the slight flex that you see is the CO2 & air inside the can compressing). Liquids not being compressible is how/why hydraulic brake systems work.


"Wrap your head" around this - 14.7 p.s.i atmospheric pressure is pushing inward along and around the outside of the 100' of hose and if you are on the suction end of the pump the pump is lowering the pressure inside of the hose anytime it is operating. The amount of water inside the hose has nothing to do with it. The hose could be full of air (empty) and the result would still be a collapsed hose after the pump turned on. Enough air and/or water will flow out of the hose to allow the atmospheric pressure to collapse it after the pump reduces the pressure inside the hose.



The comment about pumps pushing better than pulling is also correct. Not sure why, but I think it has something to do with liquids not being compressible and assume the shape of the container, but when you try to stretch them they quickly hourglass till they completely come apart (negligible tension strength). Crappy analogy would be that it is kinda like it is the opposite of pulling a string as opposed to pushing it. String only uses tension? The rigidity of the hose as opposed to a pipe probably has something to do with it. OK, I am lost now.


BTW, the white potable water hoses seem to be the weakest and collapse the easiest.


To me it is not "fun to see when things go south." Might be because I was raised as a southerner. LOL, I prefer to see them go north.
Oh yeah, that pesky atmospheric pressure thing!

I should have been clearer, so I apologize. I never really questioned IF the hose would fail, just WHEN it would fail. I get the science of it all, and the point is valid - and well taken. Also, my first choice would not be a "food grade" hose, that is, not one of those white with a blue stripe hoses available all across the US in RV stores. They're quite flimsy.

The reason I throw this kind of stuff out there to good folks like you is just for this very point that you all are making here. I easily forget certain things and don't always see the big picture. So for that I am very grateful. And as fun as it would be to see just how much inward pressure a hose can take that is designed for outward pressure, I'll probably not be making that discovery anytime soon.

Unfortunately, having a pump on the other end of the hose will not be very practical, unless I'm missing something there too.

Very appreciative for the comments.

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Old 09-20-2018, 09:22 PM   #24
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Look up "water suction hose" on Google. I did and it listed a bunch of suction hoses.
CaptSquid, you genius! The 2" on up are a bit big (and pricey), but I quickly found this one at Hydraulics Direct:

3/4" SUCTION HOSE - $.90 per ft.

I like it. What do you think?
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:18 PM   #25
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A marine bilge pump could be used on the end in the water then a garden hose will work.

Even the 12 volt pumps used for RV water systems will work nice just have a short suction hose then a long garden hose. Either use a portable battery to power it, or make up a 12 volt extension cord for it. I do find this better then the bilge pump.

I have pumped many times using the pumps on my boat to fill the water tank in the camper, and will do the same with the bus. I do not use lake water for drinking or cooking though, just washing.
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:28 PM   #26
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A marine bilge pump could be used on the end in the water then a garden hose will work.

Even the 12 volt pumps used for RV water systems will work nice just have a short suction hose then a long garden hose. Either use a portable battery to power it, or make up a 12 volt extension cord for it. I do find this better then the bilge pump.

I have pumped many times using the pumps on my boat to fill the water tank in the camper, and will do the same with the bus. I do not use lake water for drinking or cooking though, just washing.
Cool. Great info.

What would it take for you to use lake (or even pond) water as potable, have you ever thought about it?
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:50 PM   #27
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there are plenty of filters out there that would make pond water potable, most are pricey and require expensive cartridges after so many gallons pumped and regular cleaning of a pre-filter
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Old 09-20-2018, 10:54 PM   #28
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For filtration, have you looked at the Katadyn or Berkey ceramic filters? They will produce safe potable water from almost any source of non-saline water. I have a Katadyn Pocket Filter that I bought forty years ago, and it still works perfectly and will do so indefinitely. My wife and I used it when we cycled through India and Nepal - we needed several liters of safe drinking water each day in the pre-monsoon heat of Rajasthan and the Terai, and we never got sick from our water; one time I filtered green scummy water out of a cattle drinking trough because there was nothing else available and we were dehydrated, and the filtered water tasted slightly musty but was otherwise perfectly good to drink. We are living proof that Katadyn filters work! Katadyn's bigger gravity filters are usually the preferred choice for NGOs in 3rd world countries.

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Old 09-21-2018, 07:19 AM   #29
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Cool. Great info.

What would it take for you to use lake (or even pond) water as potable, have you ever thought about it?

No I have not really thought of making it potable. I see a few good suggestions have been mentioned. Might look in to them, although keeping the two separate has worked well for me.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:15 PM   #30
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For filtration, have you looked at the Katadyn or Berkey ceramic filters? They will produce safe potable water from almost any source of non-saline water. I have a Katadyn Pocket Filter that I bought forty years ago, and it still works perfectly and will do so indefinitely. My wife and I used it when we cycled through India and Nepal - we needed several liters of safe drinking water each day in the pre-monsoon heat of Rajasthan and the Terai, and we never got sick from our water; one time I filtered green scummy water out of a cattle drinking trough because there was nothing else available and we were dehydrated, and the filtered water tasted slightly musty but was otherwise perfectly good to drink. We are living proof that Katadyn filters work! Katadyn's bigger gravity filters are usually the preferred choice for NGOs in 3rd world countries.
John
Talk about an extreme test! They've got like the worst water in the world (poor souls).

The only thing is I'm looking to filter as much as 100 gallons at a time - quickly. If I could do that with the robustness of what you just mentioned...

I do have a Berkey setup. It's very slow - working on gravity. Katadyns are the bomb. They just happen to blow up your bank account in the process. But that's irrelevant because they don't have the capacity (flow) that I'm looking for. Great to have in the pocket though in Katmandu.

Awesome post. Thanks a bunch.

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Old 09-21-2018, 07:16 PM   #31
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No I have not really thought of making it potable. I see a few good suggestions have been mentioned. Might look in to them, although keeping the two separate has worked well for me.


Thanks again for the input.
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Old 09-21-2018, 07:19 PM   #32
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there are plenty of filters out there that would make pond water potable, most are pricey and require expensive cartridges after so many gallons pumped and regular cleaning of a pre-filter
Yup. Unfortunately, these are the kind I'm looking at having to get. But just because I have the ability doesn't mean that I'm going to go for the mucky water if I don't have to.
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:18 AM   #33
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For what you are wanting to do your best option is a small 110v submersible hooked to a garden hose. The 110v will let you run an extension cord to your sump pump. The sump pump would have to be run off an inverter but the 110v would let you have your pump a distance away from you bus without having to run huge wire.

Use the sumersible to push water through a sand screen and then a sediment filter into your holding tank. Once the tank is full treat the water with an appropriate amount of chlorine to kill whatever is living it.

Use your RV supply pump to push the water from your holding tank through a carbon filter to remove the chlorine, remaining sediment, and most nasty chemicals. Then pipe to water fixtures. I would further treat drinking water through a RO unit. The rejected water from the RO could be dumped back into your supply tank and reran through the RO and used for washing.

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Old 09-22-2018, 06:05 AM   #34
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the 110volt ac submersable pump will work very well. Just be careful about keeping the electrical connections dry. 110 and water make for a shocking day.

I do not have an inverter on my boat so 12 volt it is for me, or steam power...
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Old 09-22-2018, 12:52 PM   #35
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I set a system up for an off grid application where we pumped water from a creek.

I used a submersible well pump in the creek. It fed 150' of garden hose to storage tank 1.

Tank 1 had a recirculating pool filter that used a food grade filter media made from crushed glass.

I would fill the tank from the creek, dose it with an oxidiser, run the filter overnight and then transfer the water to a second tank for normal use.

The water from the second tank passed through 10 micron, 5 micron and 0.5 micron carbon filters. Finally a UV filter and into the house.

The pool filter was intended for a small above ground pool. It is sold as a "sand filter".

The well pump is in my garage. You are welcome to it.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:46 PM   #36
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For what you are wanting to do your best option is a small 110v submersible hooked to a garden hose. The 110v will let you run an extension cord to your sump pump. The sump pump would have to be run off an inverter but the 110v would let you have your pump a distance away from you bus without having to run huge wire.

Use the sumersible to push water through a sand screen and then a sediment filter into your holding tank. Once the tank is full treat the water with an appropriate amount of chlorine to kill whatever is living it.

Use your RV supply pump to push the water from your holding tank through a carbon filter to remove the chlorine, remaining sediment, and most nasty chemicals. Then pipe to water fixtures. I would further treat drinking water through a RO unit. The rejected water from the RO could be dumped back into your supply tank and reran through the RO and used for washing.

Ted
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
the 110volt ac submersable pump will work very well. Just be careful about keeping the electrical connections dry. 110 and water make for a shocking day.

I do not have an inverter on my boat so 12 volt it is for me, or steam power...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I set a system up for an off grid application where we pumped water from a creek.

I used a submersible well pump in the creek. It fed 150' of garden hose to storage tank 1.

Tank 1 had a recirculating pool filter that used a food grade filter media made from crushed glass.

I would fill the tank from the creek, dose it with an oxidiser, run the filter overnight and then transfer the water to a second tank for normal use.

The water from the second tank passed through 10 micron, 5 micron and 0.5 micron carbon filters. Finally a UV filter and into the house.

The pool filter was intended for a small above ground pool. It is sold as a "sand filter".

The well pump is in my garage. You are welcome to it.
Thanks for the input folks.

I'm getting excited about the suction hose idea (like THIS ONE) although I did find a cheaper supplier somewhere. It can allow me to use the pump onboard, keeping things a little simpler. Right now, I'm leaning toward a DC pump that doesn't need to be primed.

For filtration, I'm thinking of a bank of filters inline. My concern right now is a question in my mind of how much flow the filters can handle (TBD). I'd like to see if I can use a washable sediment filter, a carbon filter (maybe 5 microns or so) for taste and odor, a 1 or .5 micron filter for biohazards, a UV and an RO.

I don't like the idea of having water in a holding tank that hasn't been thoroughly cleansed (except for the RO discharge, as suggested). Any secondary or tertiary tanks would be for added capacity of potable water.

All of your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

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Old 09-25-2018, 01:00 AM   #37
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Thanks for the input folks.

I don't like the idea of having water in a holding tank that hasn't been thoroughly cleansed (except for the RO discharge, as suggested). Any secondary or tertiary tanks would be for added capacity of potable water.

G Dub



If you have the room available, temporarily (maybe in the aisle, under bus storage, roof storage, or hitch mounted platform), you could use an expandable storage water device. They blow up like a waterbed/balloon when you add water and deflate when you empty them. Take up very little storage space when empty and are light weight.


You could fill one up quickly, take off, and then filter it at your convenience. Could also be used for temporary additional potable water storage for extended boondocking (put 1 in the aisle, fill it, then when you get where you are going, empty it into another one on the ground to reclaim your aisle space). You could have multiple ones for different uses. I can think of many different uses.
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Old 09-25-2018, 01:53 PM   #38
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If you have the room available, temporarily (maybe in the aisle, under bus storage, roof storage, or hitch mounted platform), you could use an expandable storage water device. They blow up like a waterbed/balloon when you add water and deflate when you empty them. Take up very little storage space when empty and are light weight.


You could fill one up quickly, take off, and then filter it at your convenience. Could also be used for temporary additional potable water storage for extended boondocking (put 1 in the aisle, fill it, then when you get where you are going, empty it into another one on the ground to reclaim your aisle space). You could have multiple ones for different uses. I can think of many different uses.
A bladder. I'll look into it. Thanks.
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