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Old 09-20-2018, 06:38 PM   #21
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Look up "water suction hose" on Google. I did and it listed a bunch of suction hoses.
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Old 09-20-2018, 07:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by kidharris View Post
This "Water MAKER!" converts water to potable water (boats are surrounded by water) It does not convert humidity into potable water.


However, if you find something (portable or not)that does convert humidity into potable water, besides energy intensive refrigeration systems and fog based systems, please let us know. I for one would be very interested.
Now that I think about it, the ones I've seen are AC powered. I'll have to look into the power requirements of them.
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Old 09-20-2018, 08:14 PM   #23
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You are completely off track. These guys are telling you straight. A typical water hose is not built to handle suction, only pressure. Just hook one up and see. We all have made that mistake. If you have to use one have the pump push thru the hose.


For an easily seen example grab an unopened soda can (closed system, full of liquid) and squeeze it. Now open the can (open system, full of liquid) and squeeze it. Your hand is acting like atmospheric pressure pushing inward on the can. The can, like the garden hose, is built to restrain an outward pressure, not an inward pressure. When the can is closed and full of liquid, it is the fact that liquids are not compressible and that there is no where for the liquid to go that prevents the can from collapsing (the slight flex that you see is the CO2 & air inside the can compressing). Liquids not being compressible is how/why hydraulic brake systems work.


"Wrap your head" around this - 14.7 p.s.i atmospheric pressure is pushing inward along and around the outside of the 100' of hose and if you are on the suction end of the pump the pump is lowering the pressure inside of the hose anytime it is operating. The amount of water inside the hose has nothing to do with it. The hose could be full of air (empty) and the result would still be a collapsed hose after the pump turned on. Enough air and/or water will flow out of the hose to allow the atmospheric pressure to collapse it after the pump reduces the pressure inside the hose.



The comment about pumps pushing better than pulling is also correct. Not sure why, but I think it has something to do with liquids not being compressible and assume the shape of the container, but when you try to stretch them they quickly hourglass till they completely come apart (negligible tension strength). Crappy analogy would be that it is kinda like it is the opposite of pulling a string as opposed to pushing it. String only uses tension? The rigidity of the hose as opposed to a pipe probably has something to do with it. OK, I am lost now.


BTW, the white potable water hoses seem to be the weakest and collapse the easiest.


To me it is not "fun to see when things go south." Might be because I was raised as a southerner. LOL, I prefer to see them go north.
Oh yeah, that pesky atmospheric pressure thing!

I should have been clearer, so I apologize. I never really questioned IF the hose would fail, just WHEN it would fail. I get the science of it all, and the point is valid - and well taken. Also, my first choice would not be a "food grade" hose, that is, not one of those white with a blue stripe hoses available all across the US in RV stores. They're quite flimsy.

The reason I throw this kind of stuff out there to good folks like you is just for this very point that you all are making here. I easily forget certain things and don't always see the big picture. So for that I am very grateful. And as fun as it would be to see just how much inward pressure a hose can take that is designed for outward pressure, I'll probably not be making that discovery anytime soon.

Unfortunately, having a pump on the other end of the hose will not be very practical, unless I'm missing something there too.

Very appreciative for the comments.

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Old 09-20-2018, 08:22 PM   #24
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Look up "water suction hose" on Google. I did and it listed a bunch of suction hoses.
CaptSquid, you genius! The 2" on up are a bit big (and pricey), but I quickly found this one at Hydraulics Direct:

3/4" SUCTION HOSE - $.90 per ft.

I like it. What do you think?
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:18 PM   #25
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A marine bilge pump could be used on the end in the water then a garden hose will work.

Even the 12 volt pumps used for RV water systems will work nice just have a short suction hose then a long garden hose. Either use a portable battery to power it, or make up a 12 volt extension cord for it. I do find this better then the bilge pump.

I have pumped many times using the pumps on my boat to fill the water tank in the camper, and will do the same with the bus. I do not use lake water for drinking or cooking though, just washing.
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:28 PM   #26
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A marine bilge pump could be used on the end in the water then a garden hose will work.

Even the 12 volt pumps used for RV water systems will work nice just have a short suction hose then a long garden hose. Either use a portable battery to power it, or make up a 12 volt extension cord for it. I do find this better then the bilge pump.

I have pumped many times using the pumps on my boat to fill the water tank in the camper, and will do the same with the bus. I do not use lake water for drinking or cooking though, just washing.
Cool. Great info.

What would it take for you to use lake (or even pond) water as potable, have you ever thought about it?
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:50 PM   #27
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there are plenty of filters out there that would make pond water potable, most are pricey and require expensive cartridges after so many gallons pumped and regular cleaning of a pre-filter
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Old 09-20-2018, 09:54 PM   #28
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For filtration, have you looked at the Katadyn or Berkey ceramic filters? They will produce safe potable water from almost any source of non-saline water. I have a Katadyn Pocket Filter that I bought forty years ago, and it still works perfectly and will do so indefinitely. My wife and I used it when we cycled through India and Nepal - we needed several liters of safe drinking water each day in the pre-monsoon heat of Rajasthan and the Terai, and we never got sick from our water; one time I filtered green scummy water out of a cattle drinking trough because there was nothing else available and we were dehydrated, and the filtered water tasted slightly musty but was otherwise perfectly good to drink. We are living proof that Katadyn filters work! Katadyn's bigger gravity filters are usually the preferred choice for NGOs in 3rd world countries.

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Old 09-21-2018, 06:19 AM   #29
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Cool. Great info.

What would it take for you to use lake (or even pond) water as potable, have you ever thought about it?

No I have not really thought of making it potable. I see a few good suggestions have been mentioned. Might look in to them, although keeping the two separate has worked well for me.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:15 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Iceni John View Post
For filtration, have you looked at the Katadyn or Berkey ceramic filters? They will produce safe potable water from almost any source of non-saline water. I have a Katadyn Pocket Filter that I bought forty years ago, and it still works perfectly and will do so indefinitely. My wife and I used it when we cycled through India and Nepal - we needed several liters of safe drinking water each day in the pre-monsoon heat of Rajasthan and the Terai, and we never got sick from our water; one time I filtered green scummy water out of a cattle drinking trough because there was nothing else available and we were dehydrated, and the filtered water tasted slightly musty but was otherwise perfectly good to drink. We are living proof that Katadyn filters work! Katadyn's bigger gravity filters are usually the preferred choice for NGOs in 3rd world countries.
John
Talk about an extreme test! They've got like the worst water in the world (poor souls).

The only thing is I'm looking to filter as much as 100 gallons at a time - quickly. If I could do that with the robustness of what you just mentioned...

I do have a Berkey setup. It's very slow - working on gravity. Katadyns are the bomb. They just happen to blow up your bank account in the process. But that's irrelevant because they don't have the capacity (flow) that I'm looking for. Great to have in the pocket though in Katmandu.

Awesome post. Thanks a bunch.

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