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Old 02-26-2017, 07:09 AM   #1
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Location: San Antonio, Texas
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Year: 2002
Coachwork: Amtran
Chassis: International 3000
Engine: T444E w/5 Spd Allison
heater = radiator?

I've read a few places that the high HP RE T444E is notorious for running at higher temps and even more so coupled with the MD3060. Luckily my bus made it the 2100 mile trip home from purchase without getting hot but that was empty. I've been pondering an idea but I don't have enough know-how to determine if this could actually work. I want to remove the heaters from the floor of the bus, I have four. I live in Texas and really only plan on leaving the state during the summer months(I work a teachers schedule). My thinking is that i'm going to loose quite a bit of cooling power by taking these little radiator heaters out. They always are hot while the motor is running so obviously heat would be dissipating from it, whether the little heater fan is on or not. Now here is what I was thinking. Would it be possible to mount these little heaters under my bus? To serve no other purpose than to be little extra radiators? Or is there something i'm missing?
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:39 AM   #2
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I've read a few places that the high HP RE T444E is notorious for running at higher temps and even more so coupled with the MD3060. Luckily my bus made it the 2100 mile trip home from purchase without getting hot but that was empty. I've been pondering an idea but I don't have enough know-how to determine if this could actually work. I want to remove the heaters from the floor of the bus, I have four. I live in Texas and really only plan on leaving the state during the summer months(I work a teachers schedule). My thinking is that i'm going to loose quite a bit of cooling power by taking these little radiator heaters out. They always are hot while the motor is running so obviously heat would be dissipating from it, whether the little heater fan is on or not. Now here is what I was thinking. Would it be possible to mount these little heaters under my bus? To serve no other purpose than to be little extra radiators? Or is there something i'm missing?
I wouldn't use them. With age just moving them around could start them leaking. What about protection from damage. Wouldn't they need electric fans?
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:53 AM   #3
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They work fine as an auxiliary rad, but if you put them under the bus you'll need to protect them well from road debris. A box can be designed around them to keep them dry and clean. You should be able to duct them in such a way that they pull in minimal gunk..
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:16 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by mdeese View Post
I've read a few places that the high HP RE T444E is notorious for running at higher temps and even more so coupled with the MD3060. Luckily my bus made it the 2100 mile trip home from purchase without getting hot but that was empty. I've been pondering an idea but I don't have enough know-how to determine if this could actually work. I want to remove the heaters from the floor of the bus, I have four. I live in Texas and really only plan on leaving the state during the summer months(I work a teachers schedule). My thinking is that i'm going to loose quite a bit of cooling power by taking these little radiator heaters out. They always are hot while the motor is running so obviously heat would be dissipating from it, whether the little heater fan is on or not. Now here is what I was thinking. Would it be possible to mount these little heaters under my bus? To serve no other purpose than to be little extra radiators? Or is there something i'm missing?
If you were going to go to all the extra effort of moving them, piping coolant, adding a protective box and wiring a fan, why not just go to a salvage yard and pull an entire radiator and electric fan from a donor vehicle... Mount it under the bus and protect it and wire a switch to put the "aux" fan on as/if needed.
It would be mounting 1 thing in one place instead of 4. May cost a little, but the time saved could be a fair trade off.
I was planning on something along these lines myself, so if anyone can think of a reason it won't work, I am always looking for some constructive criticism.

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Old 02-26-2017, 10:47 AM   #5
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Too complicated. Just get a bigger rad made (add a couple of rows).
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:50 AM   #6
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I honestly don't see how that would save any effort..
A. The heater is already acquired. No pick and pull.
B. The heater is essentially a fully contained radiator set up with electric fans and an easy to mount frame.

All you need is to make a splash shield, connect the wires and move the coolant lines from inside to outside.

I would recommend building some sort of enclosure even for an automotive radiator if it were to be mounted under the vehicle. Things get nasty down there.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:53 AM   #7
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While I like the idea of a project, you may be better off simply installing a fan clutch with a lower engage temperature (if its a viscous clutch).
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #8
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I honestly don't see how that would save any effort..
A. The heater is already acquired. No pick and pull.
B. The heater is essentially a fully contained radiator set up with electric fans and an easy to mount frame.

All you need is to make a splash shield, connect the wires and move the coolant lines from inside to outside.

I would recommend building some sort of enclosure even for an automotive radiator if it were to be mounted under the vehicle. Things get nasty down there.
He said 4 heaters...

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Old 02-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #9
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Tango - its really hard on most T444E busses to alter the rad size as Navistar uses a split radiator / turbo cooler design..

what can be done is an auxilliary radiator underneath.. use 1 inch line radiator from a car like a honda or toyota and a nice electric fan. you can paerallel 2 of them and get coolant like 100 degrees or lower mixing with your main coolant stream which will run your temperatures down nicely,

you can also fix up your 444E so its factory fan works corretcly too by adjusting the clutch temperature down .. I have redbyrd's clkutch adjusted nice and low ..

this early week in florida itsa going to be mid 80s and humid so I'll give it a good test this week..

alot of cooling issues come as a result of factory original equipment not working the correct way.. often times makign the factory equipment work right will net you the results you need without lots of klougey mods..

-Christopher
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #10
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Too complicated. Just get a bigger rad made (add a couple of rows).
Too expensive lol.


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