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Old 02-26-2017, 07:09 AM   #1
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heater = radiator?

I've read a few places that the high HP RE T444E is notorious for running at higher temps and even more so coupled with the MD3060. Luckily my bus made it the 2100 mile trip home from purchase without getting hot but that was empty. I've been pondering an idea but I don't have enough know-how to determine if this could actually work. I want to remove the heaters from the floor of the bus, I have four. I live in Texas and really only plan on leaving the state during the summer months(I work a teachers schedule). My thinking is that i'm going to loose quite a bit of cooling power by taking these little radiator heaters out. They always are hot while the motor is running so obviously heat would be dissipating from it, whether the little heater fan is on or not. Now here is what I was thinking. Would it be possible to mount these little heaters under my bus? To serve no other purpose than to be little extra radiators? Or is there something i'm missing?
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:39 AM   #2
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I've read a few places that the high HP RE T444E is notorious for running at higher temps and even more so coupled with the MD3060. Luckily my bus made it the 2100 mile trip home from purchase without getting hot but that was empty. I've been pondering an idea but I don't have enough know-how to determine if this could actually work. I want to remove the heaters from the floor of the bus, I have four. I live in Texas and really only plan on leaving the state during the summer months(I work a teachers schedule). My thinking is that i'm going to loose quite a bit of cooling power by taking these little radiator heaters out. They always are hot while the motor is running so obviously heat would be dissipating from it, whether the little heater fan is on or not. Now here is what I was thinking. Would it be possible to mount these little heaters under my bus? To serve no other purpose than to be little extra radiators? Or is there something i'm missing?
I wouldn't use them. With age just moving them around could start them leaking. What about protection from damage. Wouldn't they need electric fans?
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Old 02-26-2017, 09:53 AM   #3
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They work fine as an auxiliary rad, but if you put them under the bus you'll need to protect them well from road debris. A box can be designed around them to keep them dry and clean. You should be able to duct them in such a way that they pull in minimal gunk..
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:16 AM   #4
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I've read a few places that the high HP RE T444E is notorious for running at higher temps and even more so coupled with the MD3060. Luckily my bus made it the 2100 mile trip home from purchase without getting hot but that was empty. I've been pondering an idea but I don't have enough know-how to determine if this could actually work. I want to remove the heaters from the floor of the bus, I have four. I live in Texas and really only plan on leaving the state during the summer months(I work a teachers schedule). My thinking is that i'm going to loose quite a bit of cooling power by taking these little radiator heaters out. They always are hot while the motor is running so obviously heat would be dissipating from it, whether the little heater fan is on or not. Now here is what I was thinking. Would it be possible to mount these little heaters under my bus? To serve no other purpose than to be little extra radiators? Or is there something i'm missing?
If you were going to go to all the extra effort of moving them, piping coolant, adding a protective box and wiring a fan, why not just go to a salvage yard and pull an entire radiator and electric fan from a donor vehicle... Mount it under the bus and protect it and wire a switch to put the "aux" fan on as/if needed.
It would be mounting 1 thing in one place instead of 4. May cost a little, but the time saved could be a fair trade off.
I was planning on something along these lines myself, so if anyone can think of a reason it won't work, I am always looking for some constructive criticism.

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Old 02-26-2017, 10:47 AM   #5
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Too complicated. Just get a bigger rad made (add a couple of rows).
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:50 AM   #6
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I honestly don't see how that would save any effort..
A. The heater is already acquired. No pick and pull.
B. The heater is essentially a fully contained radiator set up with electric fans and an easy to mount frame.

All you need is to make a splash shield, connect the wires and move the coolant lines from inside to outside.

I would recommend building some sort of enclosure even for an automotive radiator if it were to be mounted under the vehicle. Things get nasty down there.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:53 AM   #7
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While I like the idea of a project, you may be better off simply installing a fan clutch with a lower engage temperature (if its a viscous clutch).
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #8
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I honestly don't see how that would save any effort..
A. The heater is already acquired. No pick and pull.
B. The heater is essentially a fully contained radiator set up with electric fans and an easy to mount frame.

All you need is to make a splash shield, connect the wires and move the coolant lines from inside to outside.

I would recommend building some sort of enclosure even for an automotive radiator if it were to be mounted under the vehicle. Things get nasty down there.
He said 4 heaters...

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Old 02-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #9
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Tango - its really hard on most T444E busses to alter the rad size as Navistar uses a split radiator / turbo cooler design..

what can be done is an auxilliary radiator underneath.. use 1 inch line radiator from a car like a honda or toyota and a nice electric fan. you can paerallel 2 of them and get coolant like 100 degrees or lower mixing with your main coolant stream which will run your temperatures down nicely,

you can also fix up your 444E so its factory fan works corretcly too by adjusting the clutch temperature down .. I have redbyrd's clkutch adjusted nice and low ..

this early week in florida itsa going to be mid 80s and humid so I'll give it a good test this week..

alot of cooling issues come as a result of factory original equipment not working the correct way.. often times makign the factory equipment work right will net you the results you need without lots of klougey mods..

-Christopher
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:01 AM   #10
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Too complicated. Just get a bigger rad made (add a couple of rows).
Too expensive lol.


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Old 02-26-2017, 11:07 AM   #11
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He said 4 heaters...

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I missed that part.. Several times the work indeed.

My mind automatically went to this style of rear heater, which is the only kind I've seen in the bigger buses (80,000btu):
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:08 AM   #12
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I missed that part.. Several times the work indeed.

My mind automatically went to this style of rear heater, which is the only kind I've seen in the bigger buses (80,000btu):
Now that I would think could be modified to work!

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Old 02-26-2017, 11:35 AM   #13
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They work gangbusters in removing heat, too. I get engine temperature creep on really long, sustained uphills (such as from Presidio to Marfa, TX). Cracking that valve and running the heater drops the engine heat in seconds. While I suspect that I need a new fan clutch, I'd also like to install that rear heater underneath as a rad. It's not being used otherwise...
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Old 02-26-2017, 01:47 PM   #14
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They work gangbusters in removing heat, too. I get engine temperature creep on really long, sustained uphills (such as from Presidio to Marfa, TX). Cracking that valve and running the heater drops the engine heat in seconds. While I suspect that I need a new fan clutch, I'd also like to install that rear heater underneath as a rad. It's not being used otherwise...
if all of your coolant in the heater loops is cold you will in fact instamtly drop your engine temp when you open that valve because you start pumpimg 80 degree coolant into a 200+ degree loop... so yeah it will definitely drop it...

no doubt the interior heaters help and may act as secondary radiators.. im a proponent of first making the factory gear work correctly.. over-heating your bus engine is no laughing matter...

-Christopher
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:10 PM   #15
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i dont know if it would work but possibly repurpose the heater as a transmission cooler? if you are going to the work of removing and remounting, why not cool something else, take the load off the radiator.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:12 PM   #16
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i dont know if it would work but possibly repurpose the heater as a transmission cooler? if you are going to the work of removing and remounting, why not cool something else, take the load off the radiator.
How would you accomplish this most transmission coolers that are built into a radiator have a separate tank and elements inside the water radiator

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Old 02-26-2017, 02:18 PM   #17
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transmission fluid pressures will destroy a bus heater.. they are designed for 10-17 PSI antifreeze pressure tested and certified, not 1000 PSI trans fluid..

im working on a project with repurposing A/C condensers as oil coolers... they are high pressure capable and weather proof..

-Christopher
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:22 PM   #18
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transmission fluid pressures will destroy a bus heater.. they are designed for 10-17 PSI antifreeze pressure tested and certified, not 1000 PSI trans fluid..

im working on a project with repurposing A/C condensers as oil coolers... they are high pressure capable and weather proof..

-Christopher
I like the way you think! I only wonder about the diameter of the cooling tubes causing too much of a restriction. Is there a thermostat or cold fluid bypass that can be repurposed? I don't think transmissions like cold much better than heat. Lol.

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Old 02-26-2017, 02:29 PM   #19
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if you imstall the condenser in such a way that you only get alot of airflow when the fans are on then you wont over-cool the trans as you run them through a thermostatic control.

im all about keeping the A/C in all my busses however i know a lot of you would rather sweat when driving ...and it might be a good way to re-use the condensors to help the drivetrain stay cool.

-Christopher
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:51 PM   #20
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if you imstall the condenser in such a way that you only get alot of airflow when the fans are on then you wont over-cool the trans as you run them through a thermostatic control.

im all about keeping the A/C in all my busses however i know a lot of you would rather sweat when driving ...and it might be a good way to re-use the condensors to help the drivetrain stay cool.

-Christopher
I eventually would have figured that out! Lol

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