Help me decide!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by CaptSquid

12 mpg? I got about 7.5 mpg on my trip from Kankakee to Billings at 65mph in a transit style bus.

That sounds more realistic!
Sellers are always saying their diesels get crazy mpg's and that 300k miles is "barely broken in".

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Depends. My 466/643 does 62mph with 4.44 rear.

does the 466 have a lot lower RPM redline? or does the heavy frame genesis flat nose bus just have a ton of wind resistance causing the engine to just run out of steam at 62?

ive got 11R22.5 tires, a 4.78 rear.. (at least thats what i derived from tire sizing, actual speed, and the accurate dip switch settings on my instrument cluster)... and I can run 65 on flat ground at the "low linit" redline of 2700 RPM... according to Jasper, the version of the DT-360 I have can be "turned up" to 3200 RPM redline withouyt damaging it, however they state the longevity of the engine is shorter at higher RPMs..

[BusFiend]

Originally Posted by bread519

Hey gang.

I have a tough decision to make. I have the choice between a 1994 TC2000 with 5.9 and at545 or a 1993 Amtran Genesis with the DT466 and MT643 (with electronic retarder)

The TC2000 has some of the Windows covered, and is fully insulated with some interior work done too.

The Genesis is in better cosmetic shape outside, but the previous owner built the interior over the rubber floor and didn't do any insolation work. I would need to gut it over the winter and do it myself.

They both come with components to convert. Basically the choice is better drivetrain or interior work that's already done. I'm having a tough decision and could use some advice!

Is there really any question? All else being equal, I'd go with the drivetrain and air suspension any day. Those are things that are most often complained about the lack of. Those are also beyond most Skoolie owners' abilities, skill and/or finances. They are prohibitively expensive to change out.

Do not overlook the value of clean sheet metal. Bodywork can be extremely time consuming and frustrating. The interior, while time consuming, doesn't have to be expensive. You can not only build to suit, you can make sure it's done right. Insulation will probably be your single largest purchase.

Good luck!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

does the 466 have a lot lower RPM redline? or does the heavy frame genesis flat nose bus just have a ton of wind resistance causing the engine to just run out of steam at 62?

ive got 11R22.5 tires, a 4.78 rear.. (at least thats what i derived from tire sizing, actual speed, and the accurate dip switch settings on my instrument cluster)... and I can run 65 on flat ground at the "low linit" redline of 2700 RPM... according to Jasper, the version of the DT-360 I have can be "turned up" to 3200 RPM redline withouyt damaging it, however they state the longevity of the engine is shorter at higher RPMs..

Not sure, but DT466 engines redline at 2600. Not much point in spinning em any faster anyhow.
Sounds like Jasper just contradicted themselves in one sentence.
Your bus weighs a LOT less than mine, so I'm not surprised its 3mph faster. I also don't have overdrive.
What's your HP rating?

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Not sure, but DT466 engines redline at 2600. Not much point in spinning em any faster anyhow.
Sounds like Jasper just contradicted themselves in one sentence.
Your bus weighs a LOT less than mine, so I'm not surprised its 3mph faster. I also don't have overdrive.
What's your HP rating?

if you read about the DT-360 they are "redline:" at 3200 RPM.. (depending on the version some are 2900.. ).. the longevity I was menrtioning wasnt a ":it blows up at 3200 in 50k miles".. jasper didnt contradict themselves they re-stated what internartional themselves states that you can run it at 3200 but it will last longer the lower you go... they set it at 2700 Loaded RPM from their factory.. (jasper and IHC).. unloaded freewheel RPM is 200 above.. mine is set at the 2700 limit and the fuel screws are not turned out..

the DT-466 can run 3000 if you wanted it to.. but again just as above you would sacrifice longevity..

I need to get my bus weighed to see what its axle weight is.. its GVWR is 27,500 which is high for a short bus... esp a carpenter body .. the body doesnt seem as beefy as the bluebird did or maybe just the chassis was built for the high weight.. axle weight is the real number and I dont know mine.. im sure your axle weight has to be Much higher than mine.. for one your bus body is built like a tank... at least from everything I read your bus is a much heavier duty body than my carpenter..
-Christopher

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

if you read about the DT-360 they are "redline:" at 3200 RPM.. (depending on the version some are 2900.. ).. the longevity I was menrtioning wasnt a ":it blows up at 3200 in 50k miles".. jasper didnt contradict themselves they re-stated what internartional themselves states that you can run it at 3200 but it will last longer the lower you go... they set it at 2700 Loaded RPM from their factory.. (jasper and IHC).. unloaded freewheel RPM is 200 above.. mine is set at the 2700 limit and the fuel screws are not turned out..

the DT-466 can run 3000 if you wanted it to.. but again just as above you would sacrifice longevity..

I need to get my bus weighed to see what its axle weight is.. its GVWR is 27,500 which is high for a short bus... esp a carpenter body .. the body doesnt seem as beefy as the bluebird did or maybe just the chassis was built for the high weight.. axle weight is the real number and I dont know mine.. im sure your axle weight has to be Much higher than mine.. for one your bus body is built like a tank... at least from everything I read your bus is a much heavier duty body than my carpenter..
-Christopher

I've looked into it and theres no benefit in spinning my DT 466 any faster.
I'm going to get a higher-spec turbo and turn up the fuel a smidge. May add an aftercooler as well, we'll see. IDk, i've not messed with any Carpenters. My forty footer weighs 17.9 though, for what its worth. Probably was a few thou more before I stripped it. It definitely seems beefier than the Bluebird and Thomas I've stripped down before.
The contradiction is clear- they said they could spin it to 3200 with "no damage" while saying the engine wouldn't live as long. That's damage, no?

[bread519]

So the only thing that's holding me back from the Genesis is the fuel mileage. If it truly only gets 8-9 mpg, I'll probably go with the 5.9. From what I've gathered most people are getting 10-12 with the 5.9 AT545 combo.

Question for you 40 footers, are you very limited by where you can camp because of the size? I'm reading that most government campgrounds only allow 35 and under

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by bread519

So the only thing that's holding me back from the Genesis is the fuel mileage. If it truly only gets 8-9 mpg, I'll probably go with the 5.9. From what I've gathered most people are getting 10-12 with the 5.9 AT545 combo.

Question for you 40 footers, are you very limited by where you can camp because of the size? I'm reading that most government campgrounds only allow 35 and under

a 5.9/545 in a FULL size bus isn't gonna really do any better than the DT. The genesis can go over MOUNTAINS with ease. The TC not so much. Coming down the mountains is where its really gonna shine. A retarder is AWESOME to have.

[Brad_SwiftFur]

A DT466 and 5.9 Cummins are likely to get around the same fuel mileage. However, the 5.9 is going to strain pulling a heavy bus up a steep grade, the DT466 will perform a lot better. It all depends what sort of terrain you plan to cover. 95% flat ground? The 5.9 will probably be fine. Lots of Rocky Mountains? You're definitely going to want more oomph.

You may ask why the 2 engines will get around the same mileage. I have a 15 liter ISX Cummins on a Volvo road tractor that will easily get 9 MPG when running without a trailer (it's about 17,500 pounds bobtail). It's less about the engine size and more about how much weight you are moving and how much wind resistance you are overcoming. 20,000 pounds is 20,000 pounds, whether you move it with a small engine running close to its maximum, a medium engine running at half power, or a large engine running at low power. However, working that small engine hard, for most of its run time, it's not likely to last as long as the medium engine running at half power (all other factors being equal).