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Old 10-16-2016, 09:01 PM   #11
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
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Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
Here I am again... Digging up a dead thread!
I walked away from a pneumatic pop riveter today at harbor freight after reading the air tank requirements.
I have no desire to lug around a 20 gal air compressor... I have no need for it!

I know that I can pull the draincock from the bottom of my air tank and install a nipple & air hose... But what about adding an old AIR TANK to the frame and feeding air into the top of it, and having a line out for hose. The air tank would be ballast, separate from air brake operation.

In theory it should work, but I don't know enough about air brakes to start re-routing stuff.
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:04 PM   #12
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
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Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
you can do it... to be proper you should come off the secondary tank (the tank that feeds the #2 system).. and use a protection valve between the air system and the aux tank you install... the protection vaslve is a must.. it keeps you from running your bus air system down below the minimums required to operate the brakes.. it is required..

-Christopher
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:12 PM   #13
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oklahoma aka "God's blind spot"
Posts: 1,700
Year: 1989
Coachwork: 1853FC International/Navistar
Chassis: 35' Retired Air Force Ambulance
Engine: DT466, MT643
Rated Cap: 6 souls and a driver
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
you can do it... to be proper you should come off the secondary tank (the tank that feeds the #2 system).. and use a protection valve between the air system and the aux tank you install... the protection vaslve is a must.. it keeps you from running your bus air system down below the minimums required to operate the brakes.. it is required..

-Christopher

I'm thinking I need to plumb in a ball valve near one of my bays and when I need to fill AND use the air hose, I can open the valve. Then when I'm not needing the auxiliary air tank, close the valve and I'm back to almost normal operation.

I sure see a lot of moisture come out of my tanks that make me think I only want to use the draincock to DRAIN the tank.
Are the air compressors we're using just a 'nature of the beast' thing?
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:49 PM   #14
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Snowflake, Arizona
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Year: 1996
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American Rear Engine
Engine: C-8.3-300 Cummins MD3060
Rated Cap: 40 Prisoners
My bus has a built in Air dryer as should your bus. If your seeing a lot of
water coming out of your drains you may need to rebuild your air dryer
as the desicant and filter inside will eventually get plugged or waterlogged.
Fleetpride makes rebuild kits for many different brands and models.
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:57 PM   #15
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 3,113
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I boight a REMAN AD-4 for the DEV for about the same price as a rebuild kit and dessicant cartridge...

easy as could be.. bolted it on and much better operation.. I had a bad check valve so it short cycled all the time...

my new bus is hydraulic brakes but has air for air-ride rear, air seat, air door, so it has no air dryer.. but it does have an automatic moisture drain valve on the wet tank...

the nice thing to is if you set up your air for tools and such you can blow up your tires too..

-Christopher
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:22 PM   #16
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Location: Orange County, CA
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Year: 1990
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Chassis: Crown Supercoach II
Engine: Detroit 6V92TAC, Jake brake, Allison HT740
Rated Cap: 37,400 lbs GVWR
I put my Harbor Fright twin-tank 120 VAC air compressor above the front axle and connected it to the fourth air tank, the bus's accessories tank. There's also a HF filter/dryer in line with it to take out most of the moisture before the accessories tank, and a drain line from the compressor to a ball valve near my generator. Quick-connect air outlets for inflating tires and powering air tools are on each side of the luggage bays and in the engine room, and there's a pressure gauge to know exactly how much pressure is in the accessories system. Everything's connected with 1/4" DOT air line and Alkon DOT fittings. Easy!

This is one of the most useful mods I've done to the bus. It's really nice to use air tools without having to run the big noisemaker, and in an emergency I can also air up the entire bus air system.

John
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Old 10-17-2016, 01:54 PM   #17
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Year: 1988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmania View Post
Here I am again... Digging up a dead thread!
I walked away from a pneumatic pop riveter today at harbor freight after reading the air tank requirements.
I have no desire to lug around a 20 gal air compressor... I have no need for it!

I know that I can pull the draincock from the bottom of my air tank and install a nipple & air hose... But what about adding an old AIR TANK to the frame and feeding air into the top of it, and having a line out for hose. The air tank would be ballast, separate from air brake operation.

In theory it should work, but I don't know enough about air brakes to start re-routing stuff.
My bus & I'm pretty sure most busses has a airline & valve installed to attach shop air & fill the tanks, on mine you can also drain the tanks why not just T off of that line with a fitting to run air tools ?
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:38 PM   #18
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Location: North carolina
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Year: 1986
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Ford
Engine: Detroit 8.2
Rated Cap: 60 bodies
Never on a bus or any vehicle yet? Have I done compressed air but I have built many commercial systems.
If/when you do add to your existing lines I can only reccomend not tying into the drain/bottom of the tank.
That is where all of the sediment,sludge and water collects so anything added into there will be what receives all of that. Yes added protection stuff and ways of piping would help but why when all you need is to tie into a line or plugged opening off of the top of the tank. You won't be getting the gunk or the main amount of water in the bottom of the tank you will only get moisture that is in the feed tank if not drained properly/daily? Any added piping needs its own dirt leg(means the piping is horizontal with a tee for your tie in and at least 6" of pipe and a valve and cap to catch the dirt and water before it gets to your added tank.
I think that an existing air compressor was only designed to run your brakes or the original equipment to your bus and if and when we add to it? It should be used for emergency use only. I can see it filling a tire back to its proper pressure but not enough to set a bead on a rim and I think using your bus compressor to run air tools in your build will wear it out sooner than later? Buy an extra bus compressor to have onboard for when not if?
I will be adding an extra air tank and quick connects to mine but for only if/when needed? I did plan on a air ratchet to do lug nuts but I could get one broke and had to wait for the compressor and then I could get one more and wait? It was quicker by hand. And to take my mounted tire from 40-90 my air brake alarm that was holding the bus in place went off three times from starting and stopping the refill.
That was without an extra tank. Will have more volume with an added tank but once it's depleted then the same scenario will happen cause I am depending on one compressor designed for less than what I am asking of it
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:44 PM   #19
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Location: Columbus Ohio
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Chassis: International S3800
Engine: DT360
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger View Post
Never on a bus or any vehicle yet? Have I done compressed air but I have built many commercial systems.
If/when you do add to your existing lines I can only reccomend not tying into the drain/bottom of the tank.
That is where all of the sediment,sludge and water collects so anything added into there will be what receives all of that. Yes added protection stuff and ways of piping would help but why when all you need is to tie into a line or plugged opening off of the top of the tank. You won't be getting the gunk or the main amount of water in the bottom of the tank you will only get moisture that is in the feed tank if not drained properly/daily? Any added piping needs its own dirt leg(means the piping is horizontal with a tee for your tie in and at least 6" of pipe and a valve and cap to catch the dirt and water before it gets to your added tank.
I think that an existing air compressor was only designed to run your brakes or the original equipment to your bus and if and when we add to it? It should be used for emergency use only. I can see it filling a tire back to its proper pressure but not enough to set a bead on a rim and I think using your bus compressor to run air tools in your build will wear it out sooner than later? Buy an extra bus compressor to have onboard for when not if?
I will be adding an extra air tank and quick connects to mine but for only if/when needed? I did plan on a air ratchet to do lug nuts but I could get one broke and had to wait for the compressor and then I could get one more and wait? It was quicker by hand. And to take my mounted tire from 40-90 my air brake alarm that was holding the bus in place went off three times from starting and stopping the refill.
That was without an extra tank. Will have more volume with an added tank but once it's depleted then the same scenario will happen cause I am depending on one compressor designed for less than what I am asking of it

the air compressors on our busses are fed oil from the bus oil system and are cooled with engine coolant... they are designed to be continuous duty.. the TU-Flo 501 (bendix) is rates at 11-12 CFM, the TU-Flo 550 Bendix is rated at 13-15 CFM.. (2 most common compressors found on IHC chassis school busses) these things can run a lot of stuff if we want them to and be happy doing it.. with air tools its going to be tough to outrun it.. of course the engine needs to be on.. you will drain a lot of air quickly if you just fill up a tank and expect to use a grinder or such...

the air compressors are unloaded when the tanks are full by way of a governor mounted on the compressor... when the air pressure reaches (usually 120-125).. an unloading valve is actuated so the compressor builds no more pressure... when the tank pressure drops to (usually 90), the compressor unloader is released and it can build pressure again... the pulley and rotating assembly spin anytime the engine is running...

-Christopher
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:21 PM   #20
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Year: 1986
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Sorry my old 86-8.2 doesn't have all the bells and whistles. My air compressor does the job it was built to do. I have put it through its paces to see what I could expect of it. Of course other types and brands and models will do more or maybe less?
Good luck
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