How to deal with SEVERE rust around wheel wells

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I assume you mean "look for a new bus"?

Its EASY to sell a bus. Especially on CL, Ebay, and FB.
I paid $1625 out the door for this one and its totally rust free and low miles. Prob spend more on materials just to fix a rusty one.
Its just easier to sell and try again, IMO.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by ewo1

Here is part 2 of that video with more "how it made" info.

I watched this not long ago on 'How it's Made', but it's nice to see the video where I can back it up and have a 2nd look when it's something of interest - thanks for the post

[musigenesis]

Not sure if imgur is cool for image hosting, but here goes:

https://imgur.com/a/yisoA9i

[o1marc]

Ouch

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Not sure if imgur is cool for image hosting, but here goes:

https://imgur.com/a/yisoA9i

- sorry to say, but ugh!

[musigenesis]

So I guess my biggest question is: is this thing in danger of collapsing on me? As I understand the bus structure now, the folded sheets and stiffening channels of the floor structure support the chair rails (which support the walls and ceiling) on their ends. So if all these channels were rusted on their ends like the one holding the left mudflap, there would be nothing holding up the walls and ceiling.

[T-Bolt]

Mine had similar rust to your bus. Here was my solution. New 16 gauge steel cut and bent for the front and rear then welded in place. I this pic the steel is just setting there. Cost me $500. Treat the rust before installing new steel.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Not sure if imgur is cool for image hosting, but here goes:

https://imgur.com/a/yisoA9i

oh man.
That's severe rust.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by T-Bolt

Mine had similar rust to your bus. Here was my solution. New 16 gauge steel cut and bent for the front and rear then welded in place. I this pic the steel is just setting there. Cost me $500. Treat the rust before installing new steel. Attachment 30557

Did you have rusted-out channels in your floor also? Did you have a situation where your mudflaps were about to fall off? I would at least have to replace the channel that holds them with something else.

[T-Bolt]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Did you have rusted-out channels in your floor also? Did you have a situation where your mudflaps were about to fall off? I would at least have to replace the channel that holds them with something else.

Yes. Yes. Mine looked about the same. I just welded in some angle iron where needed. If you can't weld there are people on Craigslist that advertise welding. (As least around here)

[leadsled01]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Cuyahoga Falls, holy heck! I'm from Kent originally.

To cool. I grew up in Rootstown.

[overbyja]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Here's the eBay listing, which says it's an "International 3000": https://www.ebay.com/itm/International-/132918827108

The NY title has year 2003, make/model "AM/TR". I feel like I should know what the hell my own bus is but I don't. When I went to do the title transfer the DMV person asked me what "AM/TR" meant and I had to go find out before they would do the transfer.

I thought an FE has the engine in front but also a flat front? I think mine is a CE (I don't know what that stands for) - is my bus actually a CE 300?

Wow, that’s bad even by WI standards! My own bus has some rust issues although not as bad as yours. If there’s a will there’s a way. At least it was cheap. Also to clarify your bus’ identity crisis, it would be an IC CE 300, however since the company was in the middle of transitioning from AmTran to International during that year, yours probably was still titled as an AmTran or “AM/TR” as you said.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by overbyja

Wow, that’s bad even by WI standards! My own bus has some rust issues although not as bad as yours. If there’s a will there’s a way. At least it was cheap. Also to clarify your bus’ identity crisis, it would be an IC CE 300, however since the company was in the middle of transitioning from AmTran to International during that year, yours probably was still titled as an AmTran or “AM/TR” as you said.

RE, Rear Engine, FE, Front Engine, CE, Conventional Engine. Meaning in the dog nose.

[Oldyeller]

I'm a new member here. Hope I'm not breaking any unspoken rules by commenting.

I don't own a bus but I know rusty vehicles.

Before you decide to undertake repairing your bus sit down with a calculator, paper and pencil and do as detailed calculation as you can of the cost of repairing your bus' rust both ways you mentioned, using wood or using steel. Don't forget to include the costs of any tools and supplies (welder, wire, grinder with wheels, etc.) you'll certainly need to do the work. Once you have a number it might help you decide how to proceed.

If you have that much rust damage to the sheet metal you need to be very sure the driveline components aren't compromised because that'll certainly escalate the costs.

Learning how to weld is a good thing and working on your own vehicles can be enjoyable but do you want to spend however long it will take you to fix all that rust before you even begin to convert your bus?

It's a long shot, but if your drive train is in good condition, you could try to find an identical bus with a drive train problems, buy it cheaply and transfer your engine, tranny, etc.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Oldyeller

I'm a new member here. Hope I'm not breaking any unspoken rules by commenting.

I don't own a bus but I know rusty vehicles.

Before you decide to undertake repairing your bus sit down with a calculator, paper and pencil and do as detailed calculation as you can of the cost of repairing your bus' rust both ways you mentioned, using wood or using steel. Don't forget to include the costs of any tools and supplies (welder, wire, grinder with wheels, etc.) you'll certainly need to do the work. Once you have a number it might help you decide how to proceed.

If you have that much rust damage to the sheet metal you need to be very sure the driveline components aren't compromised because that'll certainly escalate the costs.

Learning how to weld is a good thing and working on your own vehicles can be enjoyable but do you want to spend however long it will take you to fix all that rust before you even begin to convert your bus?

It's a long shot, but if your drive train is in good condition, you could try to find an identical bus with a drive train problems, buy it cheaply and transfer your engine, tranny, etc.

I've been thinking about your last paragraph, actually. About what does it cost to transfer the engine and tranny to a new bus? At least a few thousand dollars?

[Burt37]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Not sure if imgur is cool for image hosting, but here goes:

https://imgur.com/a/yisoA9i

After seeing those pictures, and from a panel beater prospective point of view, it seem that this was really the best advice:

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

For me the best way to deal with "severe" rust is Craigslist or FB Marketplace.

Don't get me wrong, everything is fixable, but you got to decide where the thin line is between cutting your losses now and start to look for something that has a bit more 'meat' left in the frame or open a can of worms and start to remove the rust in what you got..



Off course you could do a cheap fix job, but to do a proper job, that chassis alone, need a complete strip and sand blasted..


Consider yourself lucky.. I once bough a $15000 AUD coach that had a lot more rust that yours.. It only took another $12000 AUD, between material and labour, to make it 'roadworthy'.. Lesson learned!

[Oldyeller]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I've been thinking about your last paragraph, actually. About what does it cost to transfer the engine and tranny to a new bus? At least a few thousand dollars?

I have no idea. Someone with a lot of bus experience could probably provide input. Your guess might be light if you have a 'real' shop do it. That should be part of your cost calculation to help you decide what to do.

It's tough for anyone to tell you the best way to proceed. That's why I'm suggesting a dispassionate analysis of the cost as a first step. That much rust repair would be a daunting task, especially if you've never done a lot of rust repair and would be learning to weld at the same time. If you decide to use wood you also have to answer how you'll tie the new wooden floor into the side walls which also have rust issues. Whoever said any rust can be fixed is right but that's going to be a marathon for you.

I'm not trying to discourage you, at least you have a bus which is more than I've got. I can't even decide whether I want a schoolie or a tour bus, or a step van or a box truck or even a pickup with a toy hauler.

[T-Bolt]

My rust was similar to yours. First new angle iron braces were welded in. Then new 16 gauge steel on the floor. After the sheet metal was stitch welded all seems were sealed with Sikaflex 221. When the new steel is properly primed and sealed I expect it to last far longer then the original floor did. Total cost of materials was around $700 for the front and rear although I did completely change the rear wheel wells to be flush with the new flooring.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Burt37

After seeing those pictures, and from a panel beater prospective point of view, it seem that this was really the best advice:





Don't get me wrong, everything is fixable, but you got to decide where the thin line is between cutting your losses now and start to look for something that has a bit more 'meat' left in the frame or open a can of worms and start to remove the rust in what you got..



Off course you could do a cheap fix job, but to do a proper job, that chassis alone, need a complete strip and sand blasted..


Consider yourself lucky.. I once bough a $15000 AUD coach that had a lot more rust that yours.. It only took another $12000 AUD, between material and labour, to make it 'roadworthy'.. Lesson learned!

For a variety of reasons, it's either this bus or I give up the whole project, so I'm trying to get a sense of what I can do here and what it will cost me. I had a local bus mechanic out to take a look at it, and he agreed that the wheel well section needs to be completely rebuilt, but he said that the rest of the floor could be handled and repaired the normal way (i.e. with grinding and ospho and welding patches of the remainder of the smaller holes). And he said the chassis frame is rusted but not fatally.

I don't necessarily really trust him - he might well be just trying to drum up business - and his opinion seems to be well in opposition to a lot of other people who have seen and commented on my rust situation (like, almost everyone on skoolie.net). You say my chassis needs stripping and sandblasting, but how long would it last if I just removed most of the rust with a wire wheel and applied rustoleum undercoat? Obviously even that is a lot of work, but at this point I have more time than money to spend on this.

For the rebuilt floor, it seems like the materials at least would not be super expensive (assuming it's like a 10-foot stretch or something). There's a place near me in Jersey that sells 4x8 sheets of 16ga for about $40 and they have materials for the cross-members (rectangular tubing? dunno) similarly cheap. I own a welder also, but I would have a pro do this.

[Mark_In_MA]

This is one of the photos that shows the important part of the story to me.






The floor you can fix. You can weld in some new crossmembers.

But that's still going to be what the rest of the underside of your bus looks like....and that doesn't look very good to me. Whatever undercoating/paint that was on there is gone, and it's rusty. Very rusty. Too rusty for me. I wouldn't want to put all the time and energy into a build, knowing that was under it.

What are you looking to do with it when it's done? Are you trying to full-time, or just a part-time camper/adventure rig? If it's that or nothing, it's fixable, but. . . .